Which Civ2 Should Be Out Of Civ3?

[Sabre2th]

That cup is ours! We stole...er.....won it fair and square!

[November Adam]

sorry about getting off topic, but... I'll never understand how the Rangers, which have a gizzilion dollars, can have such a crappy team!

(kinda funny how the Avalanche won the cup 2 years after leaving Quebec... a conspiricay?)

[Sabre2th]

don't forget it is the US who is engaging in massive cover up of UFOs and aliens and staging a fake moon landing

I'll never understand how the Rangers, which have a gizzilion dollars, can have such a crappy team!

(kinda funny how the Avalanche won the cup 2 years after leaving Quebec... a conspiricay?)

We arrogant, warmongering, slaving Americans love our conspiracies.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by LaRusso
tech, i bet you have a 'main street' and 'broad street', right? see, the town i am in has a sucky nike store (out of dri fit in the middle of july) and i use public transport instead of the car....strangely, streets are full of american tourists and i bet there are no europeans taking photos of your shopping mall or basketball court . we like decay, old things and impractical things

well up until i few years ago i'd hav said the reason you dont see european tourists in the US is cause they cant afford the hotels filled with Japanese tourist I mean Boston, philly, DC, Frisco, etc were all filled with Japanese tourists with big cameras taking pictures of everything (guess it gave us some of the European experience) With economic change we get less Japanese and more Europeans. I even got a chance to use my high school French last year helping a family looking for a particular museum in my town (of course they could have been quebecers!)

We have plenty of old things, unless you're one of those europeans who thinks anything built since 1750 is new.

LOTM

[Sabre2th]

the best cities in the us are very european - nyc, sf, new orleans...

How are they European?

[TCO]

Originally posted by Snapcase
Vikings. Nothing whatsoever justifies their existance: They lasted as a power for a few dozen years, and a minor one even then. No great leaders or scholars (Alcuin excepted) ever emerged from their midst. Their technical advances were mostly of a military nature, even their amazing work with accurate optics, and much of it was derivative of other cultures. In fact, they were very much "behind" neighbouring nations at the time. As a barbarian tribe, yes, but not as a civilization.

Leave them in. They are very scary to newbies and thus have a good game function.

[Sabre2th]

Originally posted by GP


Leave them in. They are very scary to newbies and thus have a good game function.

How are they scary to civ newbies?

[SerapisIV]

Originally posted by LaRusso
the best cities in the us are very european - nyc, sf, new orleans...

You're a dumbass, NYC is nothing like Europe. You walk into Brooklyn or the Bronx and try and find Europe. You walk down Queens Boulevard and tell me what's European about it. Name me one European city that even remotely resembles Manhattan? If you grew up in NYC and travel through Europe, like I have, you'd know there is no similarity. NYC is in its own category, there is no other city in the world like NYC and NYC is like no other city. The only thing European NYC has is the fascist Guiliani as mayor.

edit: spelling

[Sabre2th]

Originally posted by SerapisIV You're a dumbass

While I think you're more right than him about the European/American cities, there's no reason to call him a dumbass. There have been far too many insults and flames lately. I think you're missing the point of the Apolyton forums.

Taken from the Apolyton FAQ:

XI) What can't I post?
Insults, flames, hatred comments, spamming, advertisements are an abuse of your priviledge to post and can result to a penalty


(revised in v.1.1, 26/July/99 and v.1.6, 27/September/99)
XII) The forums are moderated, someone has the ability to ban people and close and delete threads. How can you have such rules? Where is freedom of speech?
Use of these forums is a privilege, not a right; in return for this privilege, you are asked to follow a few simple rules. The "freedom of speech" guarenteed by the U.S. Constitution only protects you from governmental intervention in your right to express yourself -- it doesn't give you free reign to use computer resources against the wishes of their owner.

[Colonel Kraken]

I've read this type of discussion before on Apolyton, and it always amuses me. America's better, Europe's better, Western culture this, Eurocentric that. And, although I'd love to jump into the mud pit and wrestle around a bit, I think I'll hold off and say, " 'nough said".

But I would like to address another thing that has always fascinated me about many of the Civ fans here on Apolyton. Why do you insist on making sure that everything (read, "in general . . .") in Civ follows historical precedence?

Who cares that no one had such and such technology in 1000 AD, or that would never have happened, or this and that Civ never had an impact on history? WHO CARES?

The whole POINT of the game is to change history. Make it something it was not. I LOVE to play the Sioux or Zulus in CtP2 simply because they were NOT great civs. I want to make them great. I want to change history. I want to see how far I can take them. I want to see the Sioux become the superpower of the world --simply because I can . . . . because it's a game .

To me, this poll is pointless. Give me the choice to choose a non-descript Civ. Maybe I can do something with them they were not able to do historically. I understand you have to start and stop somewhere, but come on . . . !

Ok, 'nough said.

[TechWins]

To me, this poll is pointless.

How is this poll pointless? I would say letting people express their feelings on which civ from Civ2 should not be in Civ3 is reasonable. I think the 16 civs that should be in the game should be the one's that have done the most historically. I don't want to see Jamaica, Madagascar, Congo, Taiwan, etc... I want to see countries that have accomplished a considerable amount in history. It's only fair to have the most deserving in the game. If you don't like being fair then use custom civ. (Credit for this poll is given to GP & SerapisIV)

[Sabre2th]

I agree that the poll was unnecessary. What I also think is unnecessary is some peoples' need to feel superior. If you have opinions about another country, great, but don't insult the people who live there.

EDIT: U=I

[D4everman]

Agreed Sabre2th. More than being slightly insulted by some of the posts I was disheartened by the mean spirited intent of some of them.

Theres no reason to vote any of the civs out other thna to ruffle some feathers. If you don't think the soiux or the americans should be in the game, don't use them. Most likely you'll be able to choose your opponents.

Some new millenium. First year of it and we're all arguing about what civ diesn't deserve the title for a computer game....



D4

[TechWins]

Agreed Sabre2th. More than being slightly insulted by some of the posts I was disheartened by the mean spirited intent of some of them.

Most of the insulting posts came from Europeans and Canadians towards the US. I'm not saying all were from Europeans but most were.

Theres no reason to vote any of the civs out other thna to ruffle some feathers. If you don't think the soiux or the americans should be in the game, don't use them. Most likely you'll be able to choose your opponents.

I'm not sure if I did the math right but it seems to me that 5 civs need to be taken out. So it seems to me that there is logic behind voting out a civ. I do agree, though, if you don't like a civ don't use them as your civ.

[Kenobi]

Originally posted by Snapcase
which leaves me voting for...

Vikings. Nothing whatsoever justifies their existance: They lasted as a power for a few dozen years, and a minor one even then. No great leaders or scholars (Alcuin excepted) ever emerged from their midst. Their technical advances were mostly of a military nature, even their amazing work with accurate optics, and much of it was derivative of other cultures. In fact, they were very much "behind" neighbouring nations at the time. As a barbarian tribe, yes, but not as a civilization.

I find your vote interesting given your location, as York was a major Viking city.

I'm not going to die in a ditch defending the worth of the Viking civilization, but I think you've done them a disservice. The Vikings had a profound impact on Western and Eastern Europe for 4-5 centuries, more if you consider that the Scandinavian kingdoms (principally Sweden) emerged out of their culture. Sweden was a major European power at the time of the 30 Years' War, particularly under Gustav Adolf.

William the Conqueror was the grand-son (great-grandson?) of a Viking who took Normandy (Norman=Northman=Viking) off the French king. Likewise, the first identifiable Russian state was built around principalities built by Vikings (named Varyags/Varangians by the Russians) along the rivers that connected the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea.

They were the true merchant adventurers of their day, trading with the Arab lands as well as Constantinople. They were also great explorers, finding Newfoundland some centuries before Columbus hit the Caribbean.