New Eight Civs analysis: just the facts ma'am

[monkspider]

Everyone remembers what fun we had last time, what with the hwacha photo and the blurry screenshot of the civ select screen that, upon being blown up, appeared to show the Hebrews as a selectable civ? Now it's that time again, scientifically analyzing all the facts until we know who the eight civs are!

Here is what we KNOW about the Civ 3: Conq
NOTE: This post will be updated as more info leaks out.

--there are eight of them in total. (source: http://www.firaxis.com/company_showr...?releasenum=43)
--They mention a Sumerian UU, therefore it is safe to say that Sumer is definitely in.
--They mention a scenario involving battle with the Inca and Maya, combine this with previous Firaxian comments that the Inca and Maya were the two civs they wish they could have put in PTW, I think we can definitively say that both of them are in. (http://www.firaxis.com/company_showr...?releasenum=43)
--They mention a new unit called the trebuchet. This may or may not be a UU. If it is, then it is a strong point for the Byzantines, as the time period it was used corresponds greatly with the Byzantine's golden age. Also, they are really the only conceivable civ that could it could be a UU for. I must admit my knowledge in this area is scarce, if there are any experts on the trebuchet out there who would care to correct me, I would be honored.
Here are a couple interesting sites on the weapon.

http://www.albertson.edu/physics/PHY271_F01/Projects-2002/WatersWellerWeeks/Final%20Trebuchet2.htm

http://29.1911encyclopedia.org/T/TR/TREBUCHET.htm

here is an exceprt from one of the sites
"TREBUCHET, a medieval siege engine, employed either to batter masonry or to throw projectiles over walls. It was developed from the post-classical Roman. onager (wild ass), which derived its name from the kicking action of the machine. It consisted of a frame placed on the ground to which a vertical frame of’ solid timber was rigidly fixed at its front end; through the vertical frame ran an axle, which had a single stout spoke. On the extremity of the spoke was a Cup to receive the projectile. In action the spoke was forced down, against the tension of twisted ropes or other springs, by a windlass, and then suddenly released. The spoke thus kicked the crosspiece of the vertical frame, and the projectile at its extreme end was shot forward. In the trébuchet the means of prcipulsion was a counter-weight. The axle which was near the top of a high strutted vertical frame served as the bridge of a balance, the shorter arm of which carried the counter-weight and the longer arm the carrier for the shot. An alternative name for the trébuchet is the mangonel (man gonneau)."
-The main site has the picture of a leader named Mursilis, who was a Hittite King. Oddly though, "Mursilis" has the Ishtar Gate behind him, which has nothing to do with the Hittites. http://www.civ3.com/images/screensho...ursilis_sm.jpg
"Gilgamesh" can be viewed here. http://www.civ3.com/images/screensho...lgamesh_sm.jpg

Here are the standings as of now
1. Sumer (led by Gilgamesh, UU Enikdu Warrior)
2. Inca (UU "Inca Scout")
3. Maya (UU Javelin-throwing warrior of some sort)
4. Hittites (led by Mursilis)
5. ???
6. ???
7. ???
8. ???

List of civilizations that *may* be included.(please note, anything is possible, and all possible civs are not included on this list. For example, if I created this list before the press release, I would have never included Sumer in a million years!)
Hebrews
Khmer
Dutch
Portugese
Poles
Byzantines
Polynesians
Australians
Ethiopians
Mali
Sioux/Cherokee

[mrboo123]

Hebrews, Polish, Byzantines, and if Australias in there, make way for CANADA!

[ghen]

They did say a WWII scenario right? That means they'd include the Poles and maybe Italians if Rome isn't good enough. Also, I'm sure they know that most real earth scenarios have real problems in asia with rapid expansion so maybe a vietnamese country?

[1]

Ugh, I hate how they keep including these itty bitty civs. Honestly... I'd rather play against a Germany, Russia, or China.... not Ethopia and such.

[monkspider]

just a few more quick thoughts re: the Sioux/Cherokee, they are civs I would have never seriously entertained as being in the next XP, but the inclusion of Sumer all of a sudden makes them very possible. Long time followers of Civ 3 may recall that the Babylonian civ was to represent "all of the cultures and tribes of the southern Mesopotamian region, including the Sumerians, Akkadians, Amorites, Hittites, Kassites, Assyrians, Arameans, and Chaldeans." (source: http://www.civ3.com/civoftheweek.cfm?civ=Babylonians).

These same long-time followers may recall that the Iroquois were to represent all of the North-American native tribes, or as Firaxis put it "In Civilization III, the Iroquois represent all the tribes of Northern Native Americans. " (http://www.civ3.com/civoftheweek.cfm?civ=Iroquois). Since they are obviously backing away from their previous comments in regards to Babylon's representation of Mesopotamia, it is now very possible that they will back away from the Iroquois's representation as well.

[kring]

I would like to see some from the following: Africa, North America, Polynesia, South Asia, Eastern Europe. Western Europe is overrepresented currently, but it may get one or two of the new civs. North America could have another Native American group: Cherokee, Navaho, Dakota, etc. with an additional one from the far north: Eskimo, Aleut, or Inuit.

[History Guy]

Poles might just be in by popular demand. Enough people seem to want them. I might beg to defer, but what is the opinion of a humble History Guy in comparison to the cries of the multitudes?

I am rather amazed by the inclusion of Sumerians, actually. I mean, they are the founders of civilization and all, but look here, the Mesopotamian region is crowded enough with all the Levant civs, not to mention Babylon, which needs a serious city list change if the Babylonians don't want to have all of Sumeria's cities from the start...

Byzantium shouldn't go in. It is covered by Rome, and the capital would be Constantinople, which is also the capital of the Ottomans (with Istanbul as the name, of course).

I sincerely doubt we'll see Australians or Canadians in there, but who knows.

Israel/Israelites must definitely be included. Same for Incas. Sumerians and Mayans might be good ideas, but they are on top of other civs. That's four I'm quite sure of, though. I hope they also put in Holland and Portugal. The last two would be Ethiopia or Mali and Polynesia or Angkor. That's my bet.

[PLATO]

I doubt that we will see the Cherokee as they were confederated with the Iroquois. They were however located in the eastern NA continent. I can see eithier the Souix or Apache for the western NA continent. (A mounted apache bowman would make agreat UU!!)

[Paulypav]

I would certainly like to see a spread of civilizations from around the world among the 8. Obviously it appears that the Incas, Mayans and Sumer are in. A Civ from Southeast Asia, like the Khmer, Polynesians or Vietnamese would be a must. I vote for Australia as well, not only because Australia is cool, but there is no representation from the continent. African representation should come from the Mali, Nubians or Ethiopians.

Here's an interesting thought that I know I won't see. What about having some civs modernize into others. The Hebrews eventually become the Israelis, the Aborigines are the starting civ for the Australians, seeing as most Australians have only been on the continent for a century or two. (Not that us Americans have been here that much longer). Even take an ancient powerhouse like the Romans and have them evolve into a modern day Italy. Many argue for Portuguese inclusion, and if we are to add another European civ they would have to be at or near to the top of the list. They could begin as the Visigoths, from which the Portuguese were descended, and with the Medieval age become the Portuguese. Just an idea.

[Nor Me]

Right-clicking on this image gives the name Mursilis.jpg. Searching for Mursilis, I would guess that the Hittites are in.

[BigFurryMonster]

You might want to bet in this thead.

[History Guy]

Yeah, see my "Heads UP!" thread.

Hittites are definite, which is unfortunate.

[monkspider]

Original post updated.

[Louis XXIV]

The Trebuchet wasn't called "Byzantine Trebuchet" so it probably isn't a UU

[monkspider]

Yep, you're absolutely right Louis.