Immortal Beloved - Operational Planning

[mjmacy]

I have been working on an original I dea but evveryone I come up with i check the thread and someone has already come up with this idea or this Idea has been shot down. i will keep working on a new and different way to aproct this, even if i sounds stupid.

[HarryH]

I made a small change south of Dissidentville in the route of our main invasion force. The change keeps them out of GS site for one more turn so they have one less turn knowing what is coming.

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/HarryH/GS_invasion_x02.jpg

Sites 1, 2, and Hurricane are all next to mountains. We can attack them without threat of chariots.

Site 1 is the target of our main force. General Jon will proceed down the mountains to attack site 1. This city should be razed. With the closeness of the border from Eye and closely packed cities there will probably be many tiles in the cities radius that would still be under GS control. Throw in a couple of foreign nationals and a resistor or two and it will require way too many units to make the chance of flipping minimal. Razing it is a better bet. We can make use of the workers. Site 1 is in a very strategic position. It gives us command of the mountains and blocks the route to Monsoon. If you notice the roads around Monsoon are only in the flats next to the mountains. They have not put roads on the hills yet. Once we take Site 1 we have two choices. General Jon can follow the hills and forest over to Monsoon or our reinforcements from Dissidentville can come down the mountains and into the grasslands to attack Monsoon. The reinforcements would be at risk in the grasslands but if General Jon can maintain control of the site 1 location it would block GS from getting additional units to Monsoon. Another reason for maintaining control of site 1 is that once our road crosses the mountains south of Dissidentville it provides a route for GS to get chariots over the mountains. Site 1 will provide protection for both Monsoon and the road to Dissidentville. Once we have Monsoon, General Jon proceeds south following the hills and mountains to reveal the area and identify other targets.

On the east coast, Harry and Mo proceed down the mountains to review the terrain near Hurricane. If the GS iron source is over there we will need more forces, or good luck. Maybe both. Whether on a mountain or a hill the iron is connected by road so once our forces get on the iron tile chariots will be able to attack. Any swordsmen in the area will be able to attack us on the mountains. Our forces will have to survive one turn of what may be a massive attack before they can pillage the iron. It will be very costly. I am not sure we can do it. Even if we manage to pillage it our units will not be able to heal within their border. It will be just a matter of time before they take out our units. A flood of workers will be back in there to reconnect it. The pillaging will only buy us a few turns where GS is without iron. The other possibility is that we put enough forces on the east coast to attack Hurricane. I am not sure which one I like better. If Hurricane is on a hill or has walls it would be tough to take. Given the importance of Hurricane I suspect they will have plenty of defenders in the city and some offensive units to attack us as well. One possibility is that the east coast forces take site 2 and raze it, then keep enough units in the area to pose a threat without doing much to Hurricane. This will cause them to keep some forces in the area which means less forces for General Jon to deal with but it also lets them keep their iron.

The workers will build a road south of Dissidentville to point A. This will provide the shortest route for our reinforcements to enter the area.

In addition to providing protection for Monsoon and the road to Dissidentville, site 1 also provides a good gathering point for attacks heading south. If the site is on a hill it would be nice to put a fortress there, but that means we will need to have plenty of defenders who will need to absorb a few turns of repeated attacks before the fortress is completed. This will also delay us from moving south.

GS knows we are coming and they know it will be Immortals. I expect them to put more money into research to complete Feudalism. They can do it and complete it before we get our forces to any city sites. I expect that we will be facing pikeman. An Immortal against a fortified pikeman in a city on a hill does not look good. It gets worse if they build walls which they may do in their front line cities. After we get down there we will probably have about 12-14 turns before they complete Chivalry and we face knights. We need to work fast, it will cost us units, and we need that help from GoW.

I wonder how long after GS gets Feudalism we will be able to get it. It would be nice to have some pikemen to protect our forces and to use for pillaging the GS iron supply and keeping them from retaking it quickly. I suspect Lego and GS will trade Theology and Feudalism. I hope Lego does not make us wait to finish engineering before they send us Feudalism. In a trade for Feudalism I expect GS require the other civ to sign an agreement that will prevent them from either trading it at all or at least not trading it to us. We will have to wait and see how supportive the other civs truly are.

GS has a map of our territory. They know our iron is vulnerable. I expect them to find a way to launch and attack against our iron supply or to cut the road. We will need to keep a couple of Immortals in the area so they can respond quickly. Luckily we have a good view of the coast on both sides so we will have some warning of anything coming our way. We need to make sure we keep units in the mountains that can view the coasts as well as the desert in between.

[HarryH]

Beta, don't be too forthcoming with unit numbers. GS will know is it BS. Make them get the reports from a third party so it looks more believable.

[HarryH]

OK, now I see what is going on with the unit numbers.

[Beta]

Harry. I agree with everything proposed. One amended change would be the first move out of Dissidentville for our main force. If they move into the mountain tile - the GS warrior will see them. So - I propose the first step be the jungle tile. It will still be the same number of moves to get there. Perhaps a limited number of of Immortals - consistent with our fals report - should go the first route - and be seen. Again - a bit of misinformation.

I agree with you about the east coast. With Mo gone, it could turn into a real meat grinder for our Immortals - we do not have a quick way of re-inforcing them. But as Jon has said elsewhere, we need to take risks. And keeping their attention focused away from site 1 is a good thing.Just too bad we don't have a faster way of getting troops there.

I also concur about our iron supply and Dissidentville. With the new GS road, they can be in the mountains in a hurry. And then one tile from te city. Which in some respects would be welcome. I would love to catch one of their main forces moving next to a city filled with Immortals. It would be athing of beauty. But on the other hand, we would be fighting on our turf - not theirs, and that can never lead to victory. So - yes - let's be prepared. I think the constant flow of warriors down and being upgraded should work well as a mobile defence if needed. We may want to consider a spearman on the mountain 3-3 from D'ville.

And yes - your site 1 planning makes great sense.

GS gets feudalism in 3 turns - so we could be in for a bit of a fight. Then again - if they only had 12 units or so in their military - we will have killed 3, the warrior and spearman in and around monsoon make 5, so they can't have huge numbers to be instantly upgraded. This gets back to jon's point of having to make some serious hay early. And That means the four target cities you have identified.

So - great post! And we need a better east coast strategy. Or - do we leave it as the diversion - and make our dents from the west.

In some respects, I almost don't want them to lose their iron. I want them to go the costlier and lengthier route of pikemen and med infantry - as opposed to hordes of cheap chariots.

hmmm...

[Konquest02]

!!!GS can't build any more chariots!!!

if they are researching feudalism, it means they have discovered Horseback Riding. We'll still be facing 2/1/2 units, but at least, they will cost higher than the cheap chariots they could have produced...

Good news...

--Kon--
PS. Beta, I like your avatar... Makes you look even meaner!

[HarryH]

Beta, I agree about the changes to the move out of Dissidentville. I did not see the new GS warrior location when I wrote that up. They moved the warrior to the coast so they can see any ships coming. Between units in the desert and city site 2 they have a view of the middle. I suspect they will be moving some units to the east mountains to keep a lookout on that coast.

Kon, you might want to check the upgrade path. I bet GS does not get horsemen. Their chariots most likely upgrade directly to knights. I can check this tonight if you want me to verify.

[HarryH]

We should move two Immortals up the moutain with the spearman. If that warrior does not move one can take him out while the other moves to the other mountain where the spearman is overlooking the grassland. Then they can head east to meet up with the rest of the force.

[Beta]

I was thinking 3 or 4 to make Ghengis' report believable, but no two is good. It will look like we are moving units around piecemeal, and again, anything we can do to get GS to underestimate us is good.

It would be nice to find out about the upgrade path. It would be great if you were right Kon, but the chart I have shows a direct upgrade to knight. So I suspect they are still available.

[Jon Miller]

do we get tech spoils when we take over cities?

I forget

Jon Miller

[Eli]

I dont think so.

[Beta]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
do we get tech spoils when we take over cities?

I forget

Jon Miller

Do you mean like gold from their treasury?

[Jon Miller]

no

like tech that they have

Jon Miller

[Eli]

No. There are no tech war spoils in Civ3.

[Beta]

We have six new Immortals in D'ville. What do we do with them?

I suggest we send one to iron mountain - to be picked up with either the other Immortal - or the spearman for transport to the east coast mountains. The other group- how about heading 2-3-3 and landing on the last road tile. They can then ride that into the tile presumably right next to the city. May be a bit of a suicide run, but if time with east coast moves, and moves from the larger group to their west - we may give them too many targets. Just a thought. Open to all and any ideas?