Moves - Volume 5

[Jon Miller]

no one else is for faster troops isntead of artillery?

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

I might as well give my argument

I think that we could best be a sea power, and a raiding one

I mean compared to the big 4, we will never have enough troops to make a huge difference, just making what Lego needs more of

instead we can focus on what others will not focus on, since they will focus on land military

therefore we need ships (and maybe should wait for destroyers, I always forget the upgrade path for PtW)

but as far as what works well whith ships, what would provide synergy

it isn't artillary

instead it is raiders, faster moving, attacking from the sea troops (I know that we can't build marines yet) who can hassle and bother than enemy

and maybe enough defensive troops to take the ground arround a few key cities (or to keep them when we get Marines)

we should try to make our military support eachother, so that overall it will be stronger

not just provide Lego with a few (compared to them) extra troops

Jon Miller

[snoopy369]

I agree with the sea power argument -- once we can make dest'ys we should definitely focus on them for a while. But, I like the idea of making some artillery at this point, and here's why:

Artillery are in a similar role to ships, in that they both serve during an attack to bombard a city. Unless we're going to be big enough to take cities on our own -- which seems unlikely -- we're going to be better off bombarding cities with Lego. Definitely have some defensive units to pillage, and definitely Marines once we can make them, but I think, in terms of what we can make now, making enough art'y to clear out a city would be a high goal.

For that matter, don't artillery have lethal bombard at one point (where ships do not have lethal ground bombard from what i remember)? I could see our attack plan being like this:

8 destroyers
8 artillery
8 rifle
(3 transports)

Turn 1: Bombard with dest'ys to see how many defenders there are (let's say 5 rifle). Land entire force except 4 rifle on one square away from city. Land other rifle on other squares (possibly to take away road connections or otherwise block resupply/reinforce).

Turn 2: Bombard with 8 dest'ys. Let's say that takes them down from all being 4 hp to 3 having 2 hp and 2 having 1hp, and you also find that there are 2 draftees at 2 hp. Then bombard with the 8 art'y. This should on average kill, out of the 7 riflemen, about 4. The rest have 1hp (maybe 1 will have 2hp). Then you can attack with the riflemen (4at vs 6 + 3 city bonus def). 8 riflemen at 4hp each should cream 3 1hp-2hp riflemen.

Piece of cake. Take over cities without having any 'single purpose' units (attack only) -- all 'pure defensive' units being used offensively. Other bonus of artillery is that you can be a 'sea power' but still have the ability to project that power inland. (Of course, when we get 2 mp howitzers... we're set. )

I definitely agree with at some point building defensive units, be that rifle or infantry, in quantity. I think the concern witht building those now is that they are pretty easy to build but would be expensive to upkeep every turn -- better strategy is to build the more expensive to *build* units first, to save on upkeep.

[Rhothaerill]

I agree with Snoopy's analysis. Artillery have a definite attack function as well as being useful on defense. Right now we can't quite build the better ships. Once we can then we will. But in the meantime we'll get a small force of artillery ready to roam our lands or load onto a transport for invasion.

As to attack units, the ONLY ones we can build right now are the 6-attack cavalry units. And they would be facing 10-defense infantry. Our production is not strong enough to devote 2 or 3 cavalry for every one defender of our opponents, even with artillery bombardment.

I still believe that right now artillery and some infantry are the best units we can build. Once the technology arrives for the better ships then we will start switching over.

[Beta]

jon - I am with snoopy and Rhoth on this one.

One question Rhoth - what about the pike and rifle upgrades, and the couple of catapults that are left. I presume you fit them in as financing allows.

Also - I notice that the other civs have moved beyond size 12 cities. I presume someone else has done sanitation.

[Rhothaerill]

990ad Turn Played

Per orders. ND sent the 50 gold and Lego sent us the 100 gold as well as steel. One more tech and we can build destroyers.

And yes Beta I will try and fit the upgrades in as money allows. Lego needed us to go full bore on Sanitation for them, but after that we can turn it back to a more moderate pace to build up some gold. In essence though we've been building gold the whole time as Lego decided to give us 100 gold per turn even though I told them our deficit was only 80-90 per turn at full research.

[snoopy369]

Beta, can't you go over size 12 with a river near the city square?

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Beta, can't you go over size 12 with a river near the city square?

That only works with size 6 cities. For beyond size 12 you need a hospital (or Shakespeare's Theater in Conquests).

We know GS has sanitation because I asked them. I believe ND mentioned they were planning on working on it as well. Lego told us the reason they need it was because they couldn't get anyone to trade it to them for a fair price and they wanted to be able to move ahead on the upper ship branch of techs (which is good since they're giving them to us for free along with funding our deficit).

[snoopy369]

Oh. for some reason i thought it worked at 12 as well.

Shows you how long it's been since i've completed a c3c game ...

and definitely a good deal for us. Looks like Lego sees us as a sort of small science lab ... we develop what they need on the side branches for cheap (well, 100gp a turn isn't exactly CHEAP, mind you, but still better to us than to enemies)

ftm, isn't the almost 1k gp sort of ... high ... for a tech of this nature?? Guess we should be glad they're nice ...

[Rhothaerill]

1000ad Turn Orders

I don't have time tonight to get the full orders up, but I want to at least put this up so I don't forget again

- Send communism-accepted to Gathering Storm.

[Jon Miller]

yah, Lego is nice (and we will need to pay later)

they arew fuding our ability to be decently strong so that they have an ally when they are going for the win (and not someone who will try to steal the win themsevles)

what I was thinking with more move troops, is to hvae pillaging (in a way, force any opponeent to spread out to deal with us)

JKon Miller

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
yah, Lego is nice (and we will need to pay later)

they arew fuding our ability to be decently strong so that they have an ally when they are going for the win (and not someone who will try to steal the win themsevles)

what I was thinking with more move troops, is to hvae pillaging (in a way, force any opponeent to spread out to deal with us)

JKon Miller

When the time comes I think we should build some tanks, but until that time I honestly think it would do us more harm than good to have cavalry. Building them now would suck up resources that would be better used to build other things that will remain useful throughout the rest of the game, rather than already be outdated. I can understand the pillaging that you want, but I just think it would be a bad idea to build cavalry after their heyday is already passed.

[Beta]

I second Rhoth's motion. Mostly because he had no spelling mistakes, jon.

On a more serious note - I think his plan is sound. Modern ships and modern tanks. That is the way to go.

snoop - as to our relationship with Lego - fair bit of history here. We are basically a research lab. But Rhoth has also created a thriving - albeit small - civilization, that can still play a part in this thing. And I do think it will get interesting once again. Sooner or later - GoW and GS will need to do something. The ending to this one should be fun.

[Rhothaerill]

1000ad Turn Played

I need to get back into getting my orders up before playing.

Lego sent the 100 gold.

- VW#s 1,2,3,4&5 mine mountain.
- VW#s 6,7,8,9&10 mine mountain.
- VW#s 11,12&13 mine hill.
- VW#s 14,15&16 road mountain.
- VW#s 17&18 move to grassland at Hope 9 and rail.
- WF in Hope to fish, 2 coast and grassland (this will get us back on track).
- Communism sent to GS

[Rhothaerill]

1010ad Turn Played

Once again I can't say 'per orders'.

Lego sent the 100 gold.

- New Voice completes infantry. Start factory.
- VW#s 1,2,3,4&5 move to mountain at Renewal 1-1 and mine.
- VW#s 6,7,8,9&10 move to coal mountain and rail.
- VW#s 11,12,13,14&15 rail mountain at Renewal 1-1.
- VW#s 16,17&18 move to mountain at Phoenix 1.
- Irony WF from grassland to coast.
- New Voice WF from mountain to grassland.
- Memory WF from hill to coast.
- Hope WF to fish and 3 coast.

Sanitation in 1 turn thanks to the two coastal moves.