Diplomacy Thread

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by Thud


This could mean anything, though. Perhaps they instead built warriors and sent them out to take cities as they were formed, (and undefended). Perhaps they built a granary first. Maybe they have a position sheltered by mountains. It does not necesarily indicate weakness.

IIRC warriors are included in the military strenth.

[E_T]

Re: First draft of Message to GoW

Originally posted by adaMada

[SNIP]
Any thoughts are very welcome -- we should all be involved in this message, as it's very important in our communications with GoW.

-- adaMada

[SNIP]

I'm afraid that my team has decided that .jpg trades (other than minimaps) are against the spirit of the game. Though I tried to convince them, they feel that minimap trades were agreed upon by all the teams as a way to speed the game up, and that the game is too close to mapmaking for full screen .jpg trades to be an acceptable alternative. I'm very sorry, but it's been put to a vote, and there's little I can do about it unless the team decides otherwise. As soon as we have mapmaking, we will happily trade maps using the in-game function then.

Let them know that the Percentages where 83.3% not to Trade, with 16.7% to do the trade. This will let them know that there are some of us who are wanting to deal with them on this issue. THis will also let them know how much the team (not just Togas) is against this trade.

[Afterthought] I'm still catching up on this thread, as I've been working on other things. If you've sent it off, then disregard (or leave for a later communication) the vote tally.

Eta Tamali

[Arnelos]

Just had another long chat with Nimitz...

Talked about a lot of stuff, some PTW-related... here's what we shared:

NIMITZ TOLD ME THAT:

- Legoland just passed a constitution
- Legoland is holding elections this next week
- Legoland positions:
President: Jack_www
VP: Vondrack
Labor Minister: Tiberius
Interior Minister: ZargonX
Defense Minister: redstar1
Science+Finance Minister: Spiffor
RP Ambassador: Nimitz
GS Ambassador: ZargonX
LI Ambassador: none
GW Ambassador: ZargonX(?)
- They have about 10-13 active people
- Nimitz is not a very active poster on their boards, just does his ambassador job
- all of their attention right now is toward exploring and fighting off barbarians
- knows of no agreement Legoland is currently negotiating with another team (telling the truth?)
- Panzer32 is the GoW ambassador to them as well
- Most of their team are not in the Civ3DG or are new to it.
- A large number of their team members are paranoid that the Civ3DG reputations of Nimitz and Spiffor will cause Legoland to be attacked at some point in the future
- They are completely unconcerned with war for now, being on a continent to themselves - and they're extremely happy with that.
- I asked why they didn't have ambassadors for Lux or Vox and he told me he think they just went inactive and Legoland hasn't worried much about negotiation yet
- I noted that most of Legoland's leadership was unknown to the other teams and he agreed.
- While a defensive alliance between our teams might not be a bad idea, he's concerned that so many of his teammates are so intensely isolationist that it wouldn't be a possibility w/o clear threat
- He asked what we would think if Legoland conquered another country - then later said that Legoland wasn't thinking about that, he just wondered. ( <- interesting, isn't it?)
- He told me that the land they spoted off to their far south and west (which would be to our east) they believed might be our continent. I assured him I believed it was not, probably an island. The terrain of that land appears to be made of grassland from what they can see. We speculated that it might be possible to take a galley around this potential island to make a trip between Legoland and RP Team less dangerous.
- Legoland suspects the map to be on the warm setting
- Legoland suspects the map to be on the wet setting

I TOLD NIMITZ THAT:

- We operate as a despot with mob rule
- our "rules" are very fluid, though there is some order estalbished by edicts of the despot or proposed organization by team members
- We have 28 members, but our active members I guessed to be anywhere from 15 to 22
- role-play has slowed somewhat since the X-mas holidays
- Negotiations on the continent have been very complex, lots going on
- ND and Lux have agreed to something of a border agreement with us, working with GoW, but they're really far away
- Told them we had a mix-up back a while ago where Panzer32 told us one thing and GhengisFarb told us another and we had to sort it out
- We've had talk about the impact of the reputations of team members in the Civ3DG, but any thought of that being the cause of a war in the PTW game has been largely dismissed.
- We have talked, however, about what impact our reputations will make other teams THINK about us.
- I noted the number of DIA people on the RP Team (we're builder-friendly )
- Told them that while some worried about early war, I personally wasn't as worried about it.
- I noted that they were the largest civ in the game and he said he didn't know that... I told him to check the F11 screen, because that's where we figured that it was them (since it wasn't us!)
- Told him who each of our office-holder-equivalents were (Togas, dejon, Oliverfa, myself, etc.)
- I told him that Togas and I (when I was his MTA) had decided we wanted to pursue a closer relationship with Legoland than with other teams, which is why Togas had personally been pursuing chats with them and such. Told him the same didn't work out with other teams, though it had been tried with some. (wanna make him feel special )
- Told him Thud told Togas and I in our diplomacy thread that we were making Thud's job easy
- Told him that little joke we told about comparing WWI/WWII alignments to our situation (Legoland = America... because they'd really rather that the warmongers not sweep over the world, but they'd be hard-pressed to lift a finger to help stop it - He laughed and agreed that that was the perspective of many on his team)
- Told him one of our objectives was to make sure some semblance of balance of power was maintained and stabilized because that's better for builder strats ( .... )
- I told him if there was a power that was threatening the stability of the region or the security of either we our our allies, we'd probably be willing to help fight against them... and I hoped that Legoland would become an ally we'd be willing to help...
- Told him it was likely a bad idea for Legoland to invade the continent if they were considering it, however, because they were unlikely to want to compete in the likely continental arms race ahead and once they were "involved" on the continent, they'd be forced to compete it in, sucking away resources. (the reality is I'd rather they just stayed on their own continent as they'll be large enough, but the argument is also valid).
- I told him that I believed the warm map setting was possible. I thought the jungles would have to be larger for the map to be wet, but the many rivers made wet possible (but didn't we make it temperate at gamestart???)

OTHER TEAMS:

- We discussed the possibility of a Gathering Storm - Vox Controli war again very briefly

[Arnelos]

sorry for any typos... I'm tired and I don't feel like proofreading it (and being tired means I have even more typos than normal )

[jdjdjd]

Now heres some good stuff -

I told them of Mysticism.

To defuse his concerns, I told him we want to be the ones to trade them Writing and we want them to teach us Horseback Riding.

I hope this is OK. I'll let you know what he says about Mysticism.

Hello jdjdjd, trusted Spaniard!

I'm writing you because something concerns me. I have heard rumours that your great civilization might trade your Writing skills for the Horseback Riding skills of the Glory of War people.

Other rumours tell me that this deal is off.

I do not know which source to trust anymore. This troubles me.

I humbly ask you to shine your light on this issue. Since our Civ will always remain faithful and trustworthy, we do not want to offend any party involved. Especially not you, our Allies!

If you go through with the deal with GoW, please let me know as soon as possible. Otherwise, I will assume that it is your preference to trade with us, and that you will take care of cancelling it with GoW. We will have mastered the Horse skills in less than 5 turns now, so we'll be ready for a trade, in any case!

If you choose not to continue the trade with us, let me know.

We will, as always, keep this confidential between our peoples.

Your friend from Lux,
BigFurryMonster

Hello BFM, Mi Amigo,

There has been many rumors, from what I can gather, from GoW. I know two things to be true,

1. We want to be the team to trade you Writing, so long as we can make a fair trade.

2. We want Horseback Riding, and based on discussions in the Palace, we want the Ottomans to instruct us.

Of some related interest, Wise Ally, we have stumbled upon a small village not too far from the great city of Madrid, from what I understand, and the villagers have been quite kind. They instructed our sages in the amazing technology of Mysticism. Mysticism es muy importante y muy bien.

We would like to know if you would like to work on a deal for Mysticism, as we can definitively trade it to you right away - Writing is still a few turns away. Please let us know your thoughts.

In the interim, we should keep the secret of this discovery between The Ottomans and The Spanish, so the world does not become jealous.

I look forward to your reply,

jdjdjd of España, Ambassador and Friend of the Ottoman Empire

[/QUOTE]

[Togas]

Good news from Lux Invicta and good response.

I'm getting concerned now with Neu Dem's lack of response to our latest PM about negotiating a border and working out some further agreements regarding settlements.

History Guy, send them a friendly reminder that we haven't heard from them and ask them if they would like to have a summit and meet with me (and a few others) to come to an agreement about settlements. The summit would be held in our RP channel on mIRC.

--Togas

[Thrumble]

Is it me or do continental politics seem to be shifting towards two opposing alliances?

Lux seems to be pro-Roleplay and gearing up for war against either ND or GoW.

Both ND and GoW haved somewhat cooled towards us lately and are actively scouting our lands and borders.

I'm not sure a Luxa-Roleplay vs NeuDemo-Glormonger war is in our global best interests.

It would be nice to get some fresh info from ND and what are we deciding in regards to GoW?

Are we going to tech-embargo them or simply make them pay an exhorbant amount for Writing?

[Thud]

Told him Thud told Togas and I in our diplomacy thread that we were making Thud's job easy

Hey, you must really want some new inventions!

As to Thrumble comments: I would agree that Lux is going for pro-roleplay, though I disagree that ND and GoW will ally, or even that we will ally with Lux. Right now, relations, at least as far as we are concerned, are fairly fluid.

[jdjdjd]

BFM's initial response.

I will let you know when he responds further,

Hello jdjdjd!

Just a quick note, since I have little time. I'm playing this game, you know, called 'real life' in which I need to go to parties and stuff. Great roleplay material, but I'll tell you all about it later.

I will reply in full tomorrow. In the mean time, it is good to know that we can send our finest Horseback Riders over to you to teach you all about this Art. They will arrive in a couple 'o turns.

The Mysticism skills are intriguing, but we are also curious what you will do with your Writing skills. Maybe you will later teach us how to make a drawing of our lands? That is not an area we're going to be very good at, I'm afraid.

Anyway - I'll post more tomorrow!

BFM

can I assume we will go HBR for Writing or HBR for Mysticism? and do I have authority to make a deal? Any ideas on what we will trade for the other tech not sent in the HBR trade? Lastly, is it all right to stipulate that as part of the trade we will not trade HBR for ten turns and we ask they not trade our tech for 10 turns, if they will agree?

[Togas]

If possible, trade Mysticism to them instead of Writing, but either trade for Horseback Riding is fine. Do get an agreement with them that neither of us will trade the tech we just learned for 10 turns.

Oh, and find out from them, if possible, how their settlement goes. See if you can't get any clues about where ND is settling.

--Togas

[jdjdjd]

More from BFM...not good news about ND.

Hello jdjdjd,

I promised you to write you a short note yesterday and I will. I think I said most of the things I want to say to you in yesterday's letter, though. I have one more thing to add: we at Lux Headquarters value the fact that we keep things secret as much as you do. As you put it: other civs might become jealous once they learn that you have Horseback Riding and we have Writing, or if they learn about our alliance at all. We trust our secrets with your civilization, though. Let me know what you plan to research next.

I have heard rumours about the fact that your civ claims a lot of land to the south. This is of no concern of ours, since we live in the north and we plan to stay there. But the civ of ND might be forced to press southward, which might interfere with your plans.

Be warned for these events, but we trust you can handle the situation. If, however, they choose to expand to the north, we will be forced to call upon our Alliance. Their civilization is the biggest at the moment, and things should not get out of hand. Rumours have it that they have 4 cities and are planning more (to the south). Let me know your thoughts on the situation!

BFM of Lux

We need to rush our ND border settlements! This may be why no word from ND.

Will we research Maps next?

My response offering Mysticism and asking for the No-Trade Clause.
He sounds like we wants Writing, though, I will finalize the trade soon either way.

Dear BigFurryMonster,

Before going to your most recent thoughts: I would like to address a possible Tech Trade.

We would like Horseback Riding. We would like to trade to you Mysticism, as it is in hand and we can trade as soon as you have Hoseback Riding.

We would like to give the original tech owner a trade advantage - that is we will not trade Horseback Riding to anyone for 10 turns and we ask that you not trade Mysticism for ten turns. This will avoid our competing against each other at least for those ten turns, and therefore following the laws of supply & demand, make each tech more valuable.

So, with the stipulation mentioned above - I refer to as the No-Trade Clause, we would like to trade our Mysticism for your Horseback Riding.

Once we have completed Writing, we can work on trade particulars at that time.

Is that acceptable? Let know your thoughts.

Now back to your most recent PM.... I am glad we both value are friendship and will keep it confidential. We hope that this friendship will prserve us both for centuries to come.

We are very interested in ND's settlements, since if they go South of the Jungle they are going to run right into us. Can you tell us how close you, GoW and ND are together and is ND trully pinned in?

We do want to expand south, but I'm afraid its size may be overstated, so competition from ND may not be good. But we will monitor ND, as you will, and hopefully they will not bother either of us. Should you hear anything specific from them we would appreciate a "heads up", and, we will do the same. Lets hope neither of us needs to call upon the Alliance, but at least each of us can sleep securely knowing we are not alone in a world of enemies.

I will let you know what our next tech research will be - last I heard it was MapMaking. What will Lux research next?

I await your reply,

jdjdjd of España

[Arnelos]

jdjdjd,

What I believe is actually going on here is that Lux and we are in competition for who can block off ND and nudge them in the other direction.

It's in Lux's interests to encourage ND to go south and it's in our interests to encourage ND to go north.

ND probably is somewhat annoyed at both Lux and us for attempting to get them to go the other direction, but there's really not much they can do about THAT. What they can do is try to compete with one of us or both of us.

So far, it looks like ND is competing mostly with Lux rather than us, which is good for us. But I agree that it may only be a matter of time before Lux starts competing with us as well.

The next settler will be going to site #2 (next to the horse resource by the river), so that will make it more difficult for ND to encroach there (but not impossible).

If we suggested to ND that they can take all of the VAST lands to their own west (our north), that might help things. We have no need of lands north of proposed sites #6 and #8, though getting our hands on 1-2 sites up there might be nice.

Perhaps we should contact ND to begin negotiations on such a settlement agreement.

[Togas]

I've been trying to get ND to meet & discuss with us about settlement issues and I'm saving the area north of Madrid (their east) as a settlement zone for ND once their competition with Lux and GoW in the north comes to a head.

ND has yet to write back, which troubles me a little, but I'm not making much of it yet.

Any city they found south of the jungle will be isolated and alone and next to a network of Spanish cities that can (and will) devour it. Cities they found north of the jungle can remain close to their own cities and are easier to defend. Which area would you rather settle in if you were ND?

I think Lux and GoW will continue to spread propoganda against ND to keep us uneasy with ND and to make sure that we help in their ND containment.

History Guy, tell ND that there are "rumors from the north" that they are going to expand to the north, and that we urgently would like to meet with them to work out a settlement deal.

--Togas

[adaMada]

Message from Panzer

Doesn't really address any of the issues from the previous letter .

I might have lost track of things -- but I thought we were an active part of the tech alliance? Are they trying to say that we're shooting ourselves in the foot with a non-proactive tech trade policy? Are they blowing steam, or is there something i've missed?

-- adaMada

adaMada,

We need to find out what the Roleplay team wants in return for Writing when you finish it. We are saddened that you are not involved with the tech alliance the other three civs are active in and you are currently the only civ on the continent without Horseback Riding as we traded it to Lux 4 turns ago and to NeuDemo 2 turns ago and both of them declared in a treaty not to trade it to your team.

Thank you,

Panzer32
Foreign Affairs Consul for the Glory of War

[Crousto]

Well, looks like Lux isn't aware that they agreed with GoW to not trade Horseback Riding with us
Either Lux is taking GoW for fools by breaking a 'non-disclosure agreement' about Horseback Riding, or GoW is making the most stupid diplomatic move ever by telling us such an obvious lie.