Discussion for the The Chronicle of Legoland thread

[lmtoops]

Ahhh!!! The smoke has cleared....Thank you

[Tiberius]

lmtoops, what did you smoke ?

[vondrack]

...still smoking, I'd say.

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by vondrack
...still smoking, I'd say.

Well, no. You probably didn't read his post carefully enough.

Originally posted by lmtoops
Ahhh!!! The smoke has cleared....

See? No more smoke, so he finished smoking. But I admit he seems to be drinking though

[redstar1]

Am i missing something or is there a risk that the barbs are going to wipe out the worker?

[Tiberius]

damn, double post again.

[Tiberius]

Yes, you are missing Vondrack's plan from the previous page, that was tested and approved:

Well, yes, we do have a situation here, but it is not as bad as it might look at the first glance...

First: let me note that the barbarians have their "turn" only after we end ours, so Jack had no idea they would be coming until he hit the End Turn button. This puzzled me at first, 'cause I was not able to see any barbs anywhere after loading the savegame he sent me... That's also why I had to put a red marker to the tile barbs appeared on, instead of just taking a screenshot.

Second: the unnecessary Angus' move complicates things a bit, but not dramatically. He or MercG will be able to reach the Jackson area in three turns, which should be ok.

Third: even though it looks like Jackson and the worker are in a great danger, it is in fact just a minor nuisance, delaying our worker from mining the cattle tile by one turn, I think.

Here is why (do check that what I am saying is correct, I may have made a mistake that could cost us dearly! could somelike run a sim verifying my assumptions are correct?):

Turn 32: (the recent one)
Start: Jackson Merc 2 turns from being complete
Start: Worker ordered to road the cattle tile
End: Barbs entering the hill tile N-NW of Jackson

Turn 33: (the next one)
Start: Jackson Merc 1 turn from being complete
Start: Worker roading, 1 turn from finishing the road
Turn: MercG entering Legopolis
Turn: Angus escorting the Settler along the Plastico River
End: Barbs closing in, entering either the tile N or NE of Jackson (or both, if they split)

Turn 34:
Start: Jackson Merc complete! (named Merciless)
Start: Worker finished roading, returning to Jackson or even continuing further along the road towards Legopolis
Turn: Merciless fortifying
Turn: MercG rushing towards Legopolis, getting two roaded tiles from Jackson
End: Barb(s) either attacking Jackson (getting killed, probability being 97% without the chieftain barb combat bonus of 400%!) or moving to the cattle tile, inteding to pillage

Turn 35
Turn: Merciless killing one of the barbs
Turn: MercG killing the other one (probability of a Merc killing the barbarian warrior is about 75% without the chieftain barb combat bonus of 400%!)
End: Barbs dead. Jackson and worker safe. Celebrations held.

[vondrack]

OK, our barb response works just fine. One of the bad guys is already dead (helping to promote Merciless to veteran!), the other will hopefully follow on the next turn. For 2390BC, we need to decide several non-crucial things though:

1) shall the worker start mining the tile he stands upon (the road tile where MercG is) or shall he return to the sea-cow tile (after it is being cleared) and mine there? The reason for asking the question is that Jackson will, for several turns, operate at pop 3... so it may be okay to mine the roaded bonus grassland - it would "effectively" take just two turns, as we would lose one turn moving to the sea-cow tile anyway... my choice would be to mine immediately and then move on to the sea-cow tile, leaving Jackson with three fully improved tiles.

2) who is to kill the other barb? One of our Mercs shall kill the remaining barb, while the other shall waste no time and go after the camp. My choice would be to have MercG attack the barbarian and Merciless set out for the camp (the camp is likely to be upon a mountain, so every extra hp makes it a bit safer to attack). Of course that MercG should attack first, so that in the most unlikely case that he gets killed, Merciless can finish the job...

3) where do we move Conan? reasonable options are, IMHO, SE and E. My choice would be E first, then N, and then - barring any important discoveries to the East - perhaps back S, and then SE...

4) Angus to part with the settler? As we would like to make sure that the unexplored peninsula in the East is actually not a landbridge, I suggest speeding up the check a bit by the following twist:
4a) move settler N
4ba) if the settler spots barbs in The Sandbox, move Angus N, too, to cover him
4bb) if the settler spots no barbs, move Angus W

If we do this, the settler would still be safe from any barbarian attacks, as Angus would be able to protect him should there be a barbarian on the coast, and Howard would be able to take care of any potential threats coming from the North, as he will be at the Panama site in four turns. Angus would, by that time, be very close to the peninsula we need to explore... it is nothing crucial, but we might save few turns of uncertainty...

Oh, and... Gaul to the South, of course...

So, my plan for 2390BC would be (assuming MercG kills the barb and the settler spots no barbarians in The Sandbox):

1) MercG to attack the barb
2) Merciless NW
3) Settler N
4) Angus W
5) Conan E
6) Gaul S
7) Howard SW

[Sharpe]

1) shall the worker start mining the tile he stands upon (the road tile where MercG is) or shall he return to the sea-cow tile (after it is being cleared) and mine there?

While we should have the cow working all of the time, I agree that it doesn't make sense to waste a turn to move it back to the cow so we should mine the current square.

2) who is to kill the other barb?

Hmm I am not confident about attacking since it is on a hill (and we don't know for certain that we are on chieftain). My suggestion would be to move MercG on to the cow and let the barb attack either Merciless or MercG as it will most certainly do - much better odds that way.

If you do want to attack I would have Merciless attack from Jackson before we move MercG as it would give us the option to move MercG into Jackson or onto the cow if Merciless was defeated.

3) where do we move Conan?

I would favor east slightly more than southeast as east would give us the option next turn to move him north or south on hills.

4) Angus to part with the settler?

I agree that with Howard covering back from the north, Angus should be safe to move away from the settler if we don't find any barbs - but why not move them both west? As our preferred location is just north one turn later...

My 2 cents:

MercG to move to cow or to attack barb
Merciless to remain in Jackson unless barb is defeated
Conan E
Angus + Settler W
Howard SW
Gaul S or SE

[Kloreep]

1) The current bonus grass sounds good.

2) MercG. The barb is on open grassland (and being impeded by the herd of cows ), and we get a bonus, too, since we're on a lower level.

3) No strong pref. East looks good.

4) Sharpe's plan is good.

[delmar]

Originally posted by vondrack
1) shall the worker start mining the tile he stands upon

Yes.

2) who is to kill the other barb?

MercG

3) where do we move Conan?

SE, for at least 3 steps (to the top of that hill that is barely visible on the horizon right now) unless you see the coast earlier. I think this would be good in order to minimize the chance that we miss the signs of a neighboring civ, see also my post on the Enlightened thread.

4) Angus to part with the settler?

Absolutely, very good idea.

Oh, and... Gaul to the South, of course...

Well, yes, but not quite "of course". Looking at the minimap, I think there are around 10 tiles left going south before we reach the "End of the World", and 2-3 of those will be probably water. I think our primary scouting priority right now should be to discover any neighbors (or make reasonable sure that we don't have any). Now, how likely is it that someone is to the South from where Gaul is standing? So, I would move to the South for now, but only because that's a hill. And the next move should be to the East, IMHO.

[vondrack]

OK, sorry for the delayed chronicle update and late comments. Today has been hectic... several pending business tasks to get rid of... piled over my short, but quite intense flu.

First, everybody accept my apology for a rather embarrasing oversight, please. Only when writing the chronicle stuff, I realized I must have done something wrong in Jackson, as it will grow only 1 turn later now. And indeed, checking the save, I have found out I forgot to reassign the sea-cow tile to be worked again (was automatically switched from after being temporarily seized by the barbarian warrior). Stupid me...

Jack PMed me he would be playing the next turn himself, so feel free to comment and elaborate on my plans here, I am sure he will read through the thread prior to playing. It's actually very simple this time...

1) Howard S
2) Settler N
3) Angus S
4) MercG SW to Jackson
5) Merciless NW
6) Gaul S
7) Conan SE

The only disputable move is IMHO the last one. We can move Conan either one tile North (and then perhaps back S, continuing to SE), or proceed to SE immediately. While making a sidestep to the hill N would give us a better knowledge of the unexplored, presumably jungle area to the North of Conan, we would lose two turns... as I feel it is currently more important to find out if there is anyone in the SE, I would vote for wasting no time and rushing SE, looking for a neighbour or a coastline, whichever comes first. Conan shall have time enough to chart the eastern coast on his way back.

Well, that's it... I am curious if we finally wake up some barbs in that village in the south...

[Sharpe]

Radek, I have been surprised that you have been able to function as well as you have with that flu - hope you are feeling better.

1) Howard S
2) Settler N
3) Angus S
4) MercG SW to Jackson

6) Gaul S

are good ideas

5) Perhaps Merciless should go north as being on the hill might expose where the barb camp is quicker.

7) As much as I am tempted to see what is in the SE, I think that we should consider moving Conan N this turn - unless we are planning on eventually sending a unit from Farmerville as that bulge there is beginning to worry me due to its size and proximity to our core area and the possibility of a peninsula NE of Conan (look what we are having to do with Angus in the west).

If we don't move Conan north, we should probably move Conan S instead of SE as it would uncover more dark squares and it is likely that the square two squares SE of his current position are hills/mountains as they weren't uncovered this turn.

However it should also be noted that the black bulge SE of Farmerville possibly contains a river due to the sudden end to the deserts north and south of the bulge (though it could also mean more hills/mountains as well).

We also know that there is a river further south beginning at the mountain square.

Since Gaul only has 2 HPs, he is a little more vulnerable to a barb attack but given the lack of difficulty dealing with the barbs in the north, he could be ok. Hopefully we get a tech or another unit or settler from the hut.

[ZargonX]

Sorry, been out of town for the weekend, so I've fallen a bit behind. I'm going to put together some work orders for the next several turns for public discussion. Sorry for the delay!

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Sharpe
Radek, I have been surprised that you have been able to function as well as you have with that flu - hope you are feeling better.

Thanks. Basically, I believe it is over. No need to stay in bed anymore... A flu that forces me to bed is a bit unusual, I always just keep myself at home, drink lots of tea and take some generic drugs... well, it was different this time. Fortunately, I used to feel a bit better in the mornings which gave me just enough time to update the chronicle and other demogame stuff.

Originally posted by Sharpe
5) Perhaps Merciless should go north as being on the hill might expose where the barb camp is quicker.

Because of the mountains, it will make very little difference (if any at all). I suggested NW to keep as many tiles "adjacent" to the new Merciless position, so that if any new raider appears, he would be likely to do so in the Merciless striking range.

Originally posted by Sharpe
7) As much as I am tempted to see what is in the SE, I think that we should consider moving Conan N this turn - unless we are planning on eventually sending a unit from Farmerville as that bulge there is beginning to worry me due to its size and proximity to our core area and the possibility of a peninsula NE of Conan (look what we are having to do with Angus in the west).

I know you have a point. However, there is one thing we know about our eastern coast we did not and do not know about the peninsula in the west - it does NOT extend to the RPers' landmass (they told us their warrior ran into a coast). So, while it theoretically is possibly there is a landbridge there leading to somewhere, it is very unlikely.


delmar raised an interesting question in the Military Architect thread, concerning our (non-existent) defenses in the Farmerville area. Looking at the map again: any barbarians coming from the North should be taken care of by Merciless... and Legopolis shall field a new Merc in four turns. Considering this, I believe it'd be safe to send MercG to Farmerville immediately instead of keeping him idle in Jackson... perhaps a good idea, so moving MercG along the road down to the south would be okay, IMO.