Next turn plans 60AD to 1240AD

[Tiberius]

I agree to send the SP.

And Sharpe, we are doing this not for them, we are doing it for us. GS is the biggest threat until now and at least for the near future, so we are fighting against them. An alliance is not a trade: it doesn't have to be fair. An alliance means that everybody does everything he can to achieve the common objective. In this case: pushing GS back to Stormia. Can you say that ND and GoW haven't done everything they could to achieve this? They've spent all of their GA on building military and fighting GS, they've lost tons of troops and the shields invested in them while we sent one tech and one luxury and some reserve troops and yet you're saying that the alliance is loopsided? Think again.

[ZargonX]

While sending them saltpeter did seem a little, well, wrong at first, much for the reasons Tibi just mentioned I decided I was ok with it. The longer we can keep GS and GoW and ND smashing into each other, the better for us. SP can only be used defensively by them for now, and they'll have their own supply hooked up in the next 5 turns or so, I'd imagine, so we're not giving them anything they wouldn't have in the immediate future.

Though, I will definately agree that our homeland defenses are slacking, and we need to start bulking them up again! :doitnow:

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
we are doing this not for them, we are doing it for us. GS is the biggest threat until now and at least for the near future, so we are fighting against them. An alliance is not a trade: it doesn't have to be fair. An alliance means that everybody does everything he can to achieve the common objective. In this case: pushing GS back to Stormia. Can you say that ND and GoW haven't done everything they could to achieve this? They've spent all of their GA on building military and fighting GS, they've lost tons of troops and the shields invested in them while we sent one tech and one luxury and some reserve troops and yet you're saying that the alliance is loopsided? Think again.

This is a pretty good summary, I think.

Yes, it may look like we are giving tons of 'tangible' stuff while GoW & ND happily wage 'their' war. But as Tibi correctly points out, this alliance is not about "fair" trades.

We have our goal since day 1 of the war: having Bob divided evenly between GoW and ND, GS driven off Bob and contained on Stormia (RP gone or in exile). And all that preferrably later than sooner, so that we have more time to grow in our splendid isolation, while others keep spilling their blood on Bob... That's what we should keep in mind all the time.

So far, we haven't contributed anything which would really "hurt" us - the fast gunpowder research did not really cost us more than ~200 gold maximum. Dyes do not costs us anything, just like iron we provide to GoW. Our troops are not yet dying on the battlefield (because of our troops not being in position yet, even the primary defenses of Y'knife will be handled by GoW troops, despite the previous arrangement that that area would be our responsibility). Saltpeter we do not need for the next 4 turns - our gold reserves are not big enough to support too many 60g upgrades beyond the first three done this turn, and we have no more cities ready to produce muskets in the next four turns, but S'haven and Tarzania.

So, while it looks like we are doing a lot for GoW and ND, we are actually doing mostly things that do not cost us anything important. Hell, we even keep building infrastructure in many of our cities. We happily research a dead-end, wonder-only tech on a surplus budget! Our economy is far from being fully mobilized for the war effort, let's be honest with ourselves...

On the other hand... as Tibi says. GoW and ND are doing their best to get rid of RP we dislike for reasons well known & GS that has been our only real competitor in this game so far (actually pushing them into a corner where GS will need our help & friendship). That's something that would not really be achievable if we were to do it ourselves. True, GoW & ND have their own reasons, but as a "side effect", they are helping us to strenghten our position in the game tremendously.

There is one more reason that is hard to quantify, but worth mentioning... from what I know about the GoW & ND guys, they are what I would call "honourable". They keep their promises and play the game with a certain degree of noblesse - mostly free of the machiavellian tricks and reasoning of RP and/or GS (see how GoW does not even consider GS' proposal to backstab ND, despite GS offering RP gone from Bob and basically whatever price GoW asks for). I do not consider it possible they turn against us all of a sudden and abuse our homeland vulnerability to gain on us. That would simply not be acceptable for them. The more we do for them now (or the more we seem to have done for them), the less likely they will be to attack us even if they happen to be in a position to later in the game (though I do not think they will ever be in that position).

One thing I will agree with is that our homeland defenses are alarmingly low. Yes, that's the risk we are taking. But I believe that it is a risk well calculated and very likely to pay off in the mid- and long-term.

[Tiberius]

Well, upgrading our home defences is definitely a priority. Let's keep this in mind while happily building our infrastructure.

[vondrack]

Plans for 330AD (Turn 149):


Unit Movement/Actions


1) Trasher to move NE-E-S, then fortify in the TarZar white camp

2) Marky Merc (in Jackson) to move NE-NE, embarking L.V., becoming part of LEF5
3) Merciless (in Jackson) to move NE-NE, embarking L.V., becoming part of LEF5
4) Galahad to move NE-NE-NE-NE, embarking L.V., completing LEF5

5) L.V. with LEF5 aboard to move NE-N-N
6) G.B. to move S-SW and fortify, ready for ferry duties if needed
7) J.K. with LEF4 aboard to move NE-NE-NE
8) N.C. to fortify, ready for ferry duties if needed
9) I.N. to move NW-W and fortify (to see 3 tiles next turn), scouting
10) G.G. to move S-SW-W, scouting

11) LEF2 (Misty, Silver, Attila) to move E-NE-E-E
12) LEF3 (Arthur, Horace, Lancelot) to move E-E-E-E
road SE-SE of Macao will be blocked by Tatung Guard (GoW's elite pike en route to Yellowknife), so we will have to leave the road, joining LEF1 on the hill S of Skulgaria only on the next turn

12a) make sure we somehow declare war to GoW
GoW needs to break our iron trade, so that they can build a coupla more horses to be upgraded to riders. There should be two options available - snatching a worker Aggie will position somewhere along the route of LEF2+3, or pillaging the roaded grass SE-SE of Skulgaria (with an LEF1 unit). My recommendation is to snatch the worker if it does not slow LEF2/3. Should it slow any of them down, let's use LEF1 and pillage the road. GoW has officially agreed to both of these two options.

12b) upgrade some of our mercs to muskets??
the fake war with GoW will return saltpeter back to us, too. We will thus be able to upgrade some more mercs to muskets. Do we do that? I would consider upgrading the Karina and Panama garrisons (120g total, leaving ~100g in our gold reserves), starting the upgrade shuffling on the next turn.

13) Meriadoc (Jack-D.F. white camp) to move N-N and fortify in Jackson
14) Mercus Aurelius (D.F.-Tar white camp) to move N-N and fortify in D.F.
15) Merril to move N-NW-N, then fortify in D.F.-Tar white camp
16) Max Payne (TarZar W.C.) to move N-N-N
17) Merc Twain to move S towards the Tipperary site

18) Ming to move S, escorting Frank Jr.

19) Settler 'Horsefish' to found Horsefish; work
bonus grass S, start building temple (??)
20) MercG to fortify in Horsefish

21) settler 'Castle' to move N-N-N, towards the Castlea site
22) new settler finished in Logville to be named 'Tipper' and moved NW-W towards the Tipperary site (the last Southern city site)


Worker Movement/Actions

23) Michael to road, then irrigate
part of the GA preparations + extending the irrigation system towards the Castlea site

24) Jack to mine
25) Charlie to move SW and mine
mine will be done next turn, bringing the Jackson shield output back to 14spt (at +4fpt), which is what we need to finish the knight there in time with max growth rate

26) Peter to move W and irrigate
27) Patrick to move W and irrigate
bringing fresh water to S'haven area

28) Fritz to mine

29) George to mine

30) Toby to irrigate

31) Frank Jr. to move S; will connect the horse to Q.M.

32) Farmer to move W, then road & mine
33) Mark to move W, then road & mine

34) Adam to move E-E, then road & mine, helping Bill

35) Bill to road, then mine the horse hill

36) new worker finished in Dye Fields to be named 'Pink' and moved NW-W, then clear jungle
see the GA thread for details on Dye Fields GA preparations


City Management

37) reassign Red Bricks labourer from the roaded/mined grassland W-SW to the roaded/irrigated grassland SW
to grow in 1 turn, while finishing the cat

38) Dye Fields to work all 5 grasslands; start another worker

39) Logville to work wheat, all 4 irrigated grasses, and riverbank hill; start building marketplace
back to higher pop as fast as possible; I believe a marketplace is the best improvement we can build here, because of the happiness and income boost

40) reassign Sharpehaven labourer from the fully improved hill S-SE to the roaded/irrigated grassland SE-SE
musket still in 3 turns, faster growth

41) Oasis to work both irrigated tiles

42) reassign Kloreepville WF so that we nail the aqueduct build in 1 turn with maximum food surplus
depends on if we uncover a bonus grass or not - if we do, reassign a labourer from the irrigated grass to the new bonus grass. If not reassign to the fully improved hill instead.

43) Tiberium to work all land tiles


44) start researching Banking at 50%

[vondrack]

Note the two additions to the turn plan - declaring war to GoW is very important. The merc-to-musket upgrades are optional.

[Tiberius]

Let's upgrade some mercs, unless we need the money elsewhere. We have the money and we have the sp. Let's do it.

[vondrack]

Tibi mentions an important issue... do we plan to goldrush any city improvements? I do not think the answer is trivial - we should look carefully at the map, at all our cities and consider their builds for the next ~20 turns.

Possible candidates would include cities that will build wonders (Panama? Jackson? Legopolis?), so that they can start prebuilding them sooner or bring more benefit while building them. Low-shield cities needing a temple or library to grab fine tiles in their outer ring might also be worth considering. And finally, Farmerville & Logville have awesome pop potentials, but only mediocre shield outputs, which means that anything we build there the hard way will take some time.

[redstar1]

I agree with the proposal to start upgrading some of the mercs to muskets.... however you may be right about perhaps rushing an improvement here or there to get a wonder build under way first.

I don't think we are under any great risk in the near future and while unit upgrades need to be started soon, the money might be better spent as you say on improvements....

[ZargonX]

If we can afford it, we should consider upgrading a few in our "front line" cities; i.e. the East Coast. Also, an analysis of which cities are worthy of rushing improvements would also be wise, as getting them out of the way while the war is still raging may be a good thing, in case we have to do any sudden re-planning later.

[vondrack]

OK, there seems to be nothing unexpected. Two or three workers ready to do something, but it's pretty obvious what to do.

I must have forgotten to move N.C. last turn, so I will do it this one (fortunately, N.C. is only meant to get into a position to be ready for ferry duties, if needed).

The new Kloreepville/Invoice tile is a regular grass, so we will have to switch back to the no growth setup for one more turn to nail aqueduct in 1 turn.

I will upgrade the mercs in Panama and Jackson.

[Tiberius]

Radek, I don't know exactly the situation/position of LEF1, but do they have enough movement points to get out of the hiding, take a look at the GS troops, and then go back to the gathering point? A screeny with the battlefield would be a nice eyecandy

[vondrack]

Unfortunately not, mostly because of the lack of roads in the area.

[Tiberius]

There will be a small problem with the captured worker. GoW will receive our peace proposal before playing their turn (I mean, before moving units and such) and if they accept it, they won't be able to capture the worker back. So maybe they should dismiss the peace proposal, capture the worker and then send us an accepted peace+wine + RoP proposal.

[Tiberius]

Radek, have you chacked if we can offer Music Theory to all of the teams? Just in case.