The Bob War

[ZargonX]

Ok, here's a first draft for our public statement, once we are ready to make it.

To the Peoples of the World,

It is with sadness that the citizens of Legoland have watched the tense situation across the sea continue to degrade further and further. War is a tragic event, and to witness one grow larger and larger by the day is all the more heartbreaking.

Though we are reluctant to join conflict, we are not unwilling. If we see that the world sways precariously out of balance, we would be foolish to not act. Thus the people of Legoland have reached a critical moment in their history, and act we must.

As of 9:30 this morning, Legos the Wise has given orders that put all Lego forces on high alert. Should Gathering Storm continue to try and establish a military presence on the continent of Bob, Lego Expeditionary Forces will be deployed to assist the nations of Glory of War and Neu Demogyptica in driving them back to the sea.

We sincerely hope it will not come to such measures, but if peace cannot be maintained through words, then it must be maintained through arms.

Thank You,
ZargonX,
President of Legoland

[lmtoops]

I had forgotten about the Grt Lighthouse; so that is a very good point. But getting them closer to Navigation is of some concern.

I guess GS response to our "official" response will dicatate the future of our agreement. If we do not honor the agreement, then we would have to compensate GS after the war.

In other words, if it benefits us now, than we should NOT honor the agreement (it is WAR, after all). But when peach comes about, eventually, we would have to compensate GS to balance the agreement.

[ZargonX]

Yes, I think GS' response to our declaration will hope solidify how this deal will play out. I think a single tech deal being broken will look sort of minor in the grand scheme of things

[Kloreep]

I'd take out the second paragraph. There's been enough bickering and hard feelings over PAs already, IMO; let's learn from GoW by just making our ultimatum and waiting for a response. Rather than having a pointless 6-page thread arguing over legality, morality, and analogies.

[Sharpe]

I agree with Kloreep. No sense adding to the bickering that is going on in that GoW ultimatum thread - take out the 2nd paragraph.

[ZargonX]

2nd paragraph removed! You're right, that probably would have been what everyone focused on anyway...

[Tiberius]

I just love how "Lego Expeditionary Forces" sounds

[vondrack]

I like it. Both the LEF sound and the announcement as a whole.

[redstar1]

On the subject of the LEF, I think it should origionally consist of a Settler, Worker and 4 Mercs (unless we got Gunpowder by then).

Does building a fort on a hill before building a city make any difference?

City should build walls then a barracks. Maybe then even a temple to ward of culture flip if its a risk...

[Tiberius]

I believe a harbor after the barracks would be best.

IMO:
First transport: (2 galleys): a settler, a worker, 2 mercs.
Second transport: (2 caravels) 2 mercs + 4 knights
3rd transport: (hopefully 3 caravels) 2 mercs + 7 knights; or perhaps some catapults, too.

Edit: on a second thought, maybe we shouldn't send the settler and worker in the first transport. We don't want our presense on Bob to be noticed yet. So maybe 4 knigths would be better.

[redstar1]

Well we don't necessarily have to found a city the moment we get there but we will want to ASAP when our intentions are known.

I like your 3 transport plan although I would stick to the Knights early on until we decide exactly what we will have to do.

[lmtoops]

The worker can go in first to start any improvements. The city can be founded later.

[vondrack]

Another idea... some of our workers might help building roads or improvements where ND would need them... they are faster than native Arab. workers...

[redstar1]

True true, although I wouldn't like any of our workers to be captured in enemy territory!!!

[vondrack]

I am posting this chatlog here, rather than in one of the ND/GoW F.A. threads:

Session Start: Thu Jul 31 19:44:03 2003
Session Ident: #gow_cofa
* Now talking in #gow_cofa
vondrack:
* Panzer32 sets mode: +o vondrack
vondrack: may I ask a preliminary question about your research?
Panzer32: sure
vondrack: how long before you finish Invention (at the current sci rate)?
vondrack: and how long at 100%?
Panzer32: 11 turns as of last turn, but we hope to increase with our GA
vondrack: that's great news
Panzer32: 100%...
Panzer32: one minute
vondrack: k
vondrack: and tell me how much gpt you'd need to balance your cashflow then
vondrack: btw - not in your GA yet?
Panzer32: at 100%, it is 7 turns with -60gpt (currently running at -11gpt)
Panzer32: not yet but most likely next turn
vondrack: may I invite ZargonX?
vondrack: he's online
Panzer32: go ahead
vondrack: will be here for the chat, too
vondrack: thanks
* ZargonX has joined #gow_cofa
vondrack: see, I am thinking of speeding your research as much as possible, getting Invention from you just after we finish Astronomy
vondrack: and then doing Gunpowder as fast as possible
vondrack: providing it to you & ND
ZargonX: isn't there a way to hide this channel?
* Retrieving #gow_cofa info...
vondrack: I think it is already hidden
vondrack: or, "secret"
ZargonX: ok, good
* vondrack sets mode: +o ZargonX
ZargonX: don't want anyone wandering in here to see what's up
vondrack: right, definitely
* Panzer32 sets mode: +k jduf
vondrack: we should perhaps revisit the idea after you get into your GA, Panzer
Panzer32: thats the password
vondrack: you may be just fast enough for us
vondrack: then
vondrack: Astronomy in 5 here
Panzer32: ah
vondrack: but do not tell GS...
Panzer32: yes
vondrack: and we could probably use a turn or two with 100% tax anyway
Panzer32: btw, do you guys have embassies with either GS or RP?
ZargonX: no, we do not
vondrack: nope
vondrack: do we allow Trip here?
Panzer32: sure
vondrack: k
* Trip has joined #gow_cofa
Panzer32: busy for a couple minutes...
ZargonX: I am expecting a maintainance man at my apartment, so please excuse me if I have to duck out suddenly
vondrack: k
ZargonX: I guess ND will be here soon
vondrack: I hope so
vondrack: in the meantime... Panzer, will you mind if we establish an embassy with you this turn? it will be necessary for RoP
Panzer32: thats fine
ZargonX:
ZargonX: excellent
Panzer32: unbusy btw
vondrack: ok, that's 69 gold... first alliance costs
* [ND]Darekill has joined #gow_cofa
[ND]Darekill: Hi!
vondrack: hello!
ZargonX: hello, Darekill!
Panzer32: hi Darekill
[ND]Darekill: Hi Gow, Legos, Friends
vondrack:
[ND]Darekill: I'm waiting for some more of my people to show up
vondrack: of course, take your time
ZargonX: oh, excuse me for a bit, everyone
* ZargonX is now known as ZargonX|maintainence
vondrack: Darekill, can you tell Zayxus to come here, please?
* Zayxus has joined #gow_cofa
vondrack: great
[ND]Darekill: I told him as you can see
* vondrack sets mode: +ooo Trip Zayxus [ND]Darekill
vondrack:
* Zayxus is now known as [ND]Zayxus
Panzer32: Master Zen is unfortunatly probably unable to make the chat
vondrack: we (Lego) will not use the team prefixes... someone could take the hint...
[ND]Darekill: having some flamewars to lead
vondrack: hehe
vondrack: it is ridiculous...
Panzer32: Shall we start now?
[ND]Darekill: Yes let's start.
vondrack: ok
[ND]Darekill: maybe borc will show up but I don'T know when
vondrack: who's going to take the lead?
Panzer32: I can
vondrack: k, go ahead
Panzer32: There are currently two different opionions in GoW about Legoland helping us
Panzer32: one is that Legoland should immediatly start transporting troops to Bob (of which I am myself a supporter)
* redstar1 has joined #gow_cofa
redstar1: heyy
redstar1: hey trip, fancy seeing you here
vondrack: hey, redstar! silence, please
Panzer32: the other is that Legoland should lie low until they can help in a major way, i.e. invasion of Estormia.
redstar1: :X
vondrack: ok, let me point out one thing, plese
vondrack: *please
Panzer32: go ahead
vondrack: we are NOT going to invade Stormia
* Panzer32 sets mode: +o redstar1
vondrack: not now, not later
Panzer32: ok
vondrack: our goal is to help you on Bob
Panzer32: I didn't think so
[ND]Darekill: I did
vondrack:
vondrack: ok, this leaves one option out, I guess...
Panzer32: I guess it does
[ND]Darekill: We have no Problem in leaving you a city in the south for the planned expedition force.
vondrack: ok, fine, that will make things easier
* [ND]Borc has joined #gow_cofa
vondrack: we will not need it immediately, but I am glad you do not mind
vondrack: gimme three minutes to eat my supper, please
Panzer32: Where is it that you plan to ferry troops across?
Panzer32: sure
[ND]Darekill: do you plan to keep it after the war?
* Panzer32 sets mode: +o [ND]Borc
vondrack: no, we would hand it over to you after the war
vondrack: we have no desire for a permanent presence on Bob
redstar1: or remove it...
redstar1: its unlikely to be in an ideal city placement location
vondrack: yeah, whatever
[ND]Darekill: fine thats even better then.
redstar1: i would imagine it would be on a hill
vondrack: almost done eating
redstar1: anything i've missed while V stuffs his face?
vondrack: ok, supper eaten
vondrack: may I take the lead now?
[ND]Darekill: go ahead.
vondrack: thanks
vondrack: I would like to use this opportunity to make sure we all understand our goals the same way
vondrack: and there is no misunderstanding about the scope of our involvement in the war
vondrack: so:
vondrack: Legoland will not get directly involved in the war against RP
vondrack: unless RP attack us, of course
vondrack: Legoland will not invade Stormia, unless GS invades Legos
vondrack: for us, the ultimate goal of this war is to have Bob divided between GoW & ND
vondrack: sealing GS on Stormia
vondrack: getting rid of RP
vondrack: Voxes will have Legos Minor
vondrack: we will have Legos Major
vondrack: once this is achieved, we will consider our goal reached and will reconsider our further involvement
vondrack: is this okay with both of your teams?
* Donegeal has joined #gow_cofa
[ND]Darekill: It is what I expected you will want.
* Donegeal is now known as [GoW]Donegeal
vondrack: yes - we talked about it during the previous chat
[ND]Darekill: one think though is unclear.
vondrack: yes?
[ND]Darekill: if you want RP gone
* Panzer32 sets mode: +o [GoW]Donegeal
[ND]Darekill: why not actualy help getting rid of them.
vondrack: we would break a treaty
[ND]Darekill: That is acceptable.
vondrack: to be precise
vondrack: there is a date set
redstar1: i think we would also be more useful in dealing with GS directly, we have nothing on Bob to defend as such
vondrack: after which we would be free to attack
vondrack: but it is confidential and not in the near future
[ND]Darekill: all right.
[ND]Borc: :top:
vondrack: now, for the help
vondrack: I have PMed both of you (Darekill & Panzer)
vondrack: with some ideas
vondrack: may I have your comments on them?
vondrack: what do you need most?
vondrack: or, we might break the discussion into smaller parts
vondrack: let's start with easy stuff
Panzer32: sure
vondrack: LUXURIES:
[ND]Darekill: It's Ok. just a few minutes.
vondrack: in 5 turns, we will be able to provide both of you with dyes
[ND]Darekill: Panzer may start.
vondrack: ok
Panzer32: yes, we could use them. We were trading with both RP and GS for luxuries so I believe we might run into unhappiness
Panzer32: Also, we can easily give you wines in return
vondrack: great
vondrack: Darekill, what luxury/ies do you have a surplus of?
[ND]Darekill: right now we have spices.
[ND]Darekill: but soon we will hafe silk too.
vondrack: only two of them, right?
[ND]Darekill: yes.
vondrack: it may be better if you give the extra silk to GoW
[ND]Darekill: But therel be diamonds too
vondrack: their war weariness will be higher
[ND]Darekill: Two first maybe more later and still later we hope to get ivory.
[GoW]Donegeal: WW doesn't play as significant a part in MP games...
vondrack: ok - we would respectfully ask for whatever luxury you will have more than 2 of...
[ND]Darekill: so we give GoW the silk and you the diamonds.
Panzer32: (since GoW has diamonds
vondrack:
[ND]Darekill: is that o.k. with you Panzer?
Panzer32: ^
vondrack: ok... I suggest a very simple principle
vondrack: for the duration of our alliance
vondrack: we share the luxuries "for free"
[ND]Darekill: agreed.
Panzer32: yes, agreed
vondrack: everybody gives whatever is possible
vondrack: great
vondrack: next point:
vondrack: RESEARCH
vondrack: what are you, guys, researching?
vondrack: I know about GoW
[ND]Darekill: We research almost nothing.
vondrack: we are doing Astronomy
vondrack: ok, that's what we assumed
vondrack: it's probably better this way
[ND]Darekill: We are with zero Research at Printing Press
Panzer32: hey MZ's here!
* MasterZen has joined #GoW_CoFA
MasterZen: hello everyone
vondrack: hello, MZ!
redstar1: hey
vondrack: ok, here is an idea:
[ND]Darekill: Hello oh great Barbarian brother and hero of the flame wars
vondrack: we finish Astronomy in 5 turns
* Panzer32 sets mode: +o MasterZen
vondrack: that's a solid ETA
MasterZen: hahaha, hi Darekill
vondrack: we then gift the tech to both of you
[GoW]Donegeal: perchance ND and GoW should research (to get two techs instead of one) while Lego funds our war efforts?
redstar1: yeah, Zargon is waiting on more lenses being delivered
vondrack: and wait for GoW to finish Invention, saving some cash
vondrack: once we get Invention, we go full speed for Gunpowder
vondrack: (we are the fastest researchers out of us three, I believe)
[ND]Darekill: Good we could raise our Research but it'll leave us less money for rushs
vondrack: once discovered, you get it from us immediately
vondrack: I do not think you need to raise your science, Darekill
vondrack: not yet
vondrack: nothing to research, actually
* GhengisFarb has joined #gow_cofa
MasterZen: sounds like a solid plan
vondrack: PP is already covered
[ND]Darekill: good then we can suport some money when needed.
vondrack: we might use some of your gold to speed for the gunpowder as fast as possible once we start researching it
vondrack: yes, good
vondrack: we understand each other
redstar1: gunpowder is key, yeah
vondrack: just a sec, I will try to estimate the ETA on gunpowder
redstar1: 17? or are my sums out?
vondrack: we could do it in 6 turns (right now) , if you help us with cash
redstar1: thats been known to happen right enough..
vondrack: add whatever you need to finish Invention
redstar1: 7:P
* NeMeSiS has joined #gow_cofa
vondrack: we would need you to help us with ~85 gpt (to allow running at 100% research)
NeMeSiS: hi all
vondrack: hi!
NeMeSiS: sorry for beeing late
GhengisFarb: So are we going to have an official alliance between ND, GoW, and Lego?
NeMeSiS: -e
vondrack: it may actually be less, since we are finishing some markets and founding some cities and such...
* NeMeSiS is now known as [ND]NeMeSiS
vondrack: what I am quoting is the status as of this turn
vondrack: do you think it would be doable?
[ND]Darekill: 85 is a lot of cash though..
vondrack: yes, it is
[ND]Darekill: we maybe get 50
vondrack: Panzer?
Panzer32: just a sec...
vondrack: k
[ND]Darekill: We have abour 200 gpT but we need some for rushs
vondrack: understood
Panzer32: at 0% science we have 66gpt
MasterZen: but that's pre-GA
vondrack: right... lemme re-check our potential
Panzer32: right...
Panzer32: estimate maybe 90gpt
vondrack: 7 turns for the powder at -66 gpt
vondrack: for us now
vondrack: should be better when we get to researching it actually
vondrack: I suggest we set solid deadlines once GoW enter their GA, ok?
Panzer32: ok. Expected GA next turn
vondrack: but I take it everybody agrees this is a good idea, right?
Panzer32: yeah. Sooner we get Gunpowder = sooner GS' knights are innefective
vondrack: yep - that was my thinking
vondrack: Darekill?
* Panzer32 sets mode: +oo GhengisFarb [ND]NeMeSiS
MasterZen: sounds great if you ask me
[GoW]Donegeal: you want to really stir things up? How about have Lego talk to Vox to send a single solitary warrior to lego and have it be killed by a NM and have Lego enter a GA as well... MONEY AND RESEARCH ABOUND!!!!
vondrack: ummm... that sound too cheesy to me
[ND]Darekill: I have four chat channel blinking like crazy....
vondrack: I know it would work, but it is somehow...
[GoW]Donegeal: just an idea...
vondrack: I would prefer not doing that
MasterZen: I think that Lego should hold on to it's GA to a time in which it is more needed
vondrack: yes, I think so, too
[GoW]Donegeal: more needed?
MasterZen: perhaps for a definitive assault on GS in the future...
vondrack: plus, we are now expanding a bit - GA later will bring more
[ND]Darekill: so now how is the finacial situation.
[GoW]Donegeal: IF we loose this war GS will win the game! How much more needed does it need to get?
[ND]Darekill: Lego how much do ayou need from us for 100% research and how long.
vondrack: ok - Darekill, you cool with the research plan?
[ND]Darekill: Yes of course.
vondrack: errr... just a sec
vondrack: as I said, at this very moment, 100% science would mean -85 gpt for us
vondrack: but it will be less after ~7 turns
vondrack: which GoW will need to get to Invention
[ND]Darekill: how much can GoW give per turn?
* GhengisFarb is now known as [GoW]GhengisFarb
Panzer32: up to about 90gpt with GA
vondrack: My rough estimate is that we will need 60 gpt max
Panzer32: I'm just wondering here about invention; will ND give us anything for it?
vondrack: we are going to up our commerce a bit in the near future
[ND]Darekill: we should share resources and research fairly.
[ND]Darekill: We have iron and 200g/t
vondrack: yes, I believe this is about US THREE getting the most
[ND]Darekill: some luxury and some Ansar.
vondrack: this is no time for bargaining over separate deals
Panzer32: right. But will we are working in the -gpt to get Invention finished while ND rakes up the cash
vondrack: perhaps ND could help you finish Inv in ~7 turns?
[ND]Darekill: we always payed fair for what we got didn't we?
[ND]Darekill: How much do you need to get out of the .- Panzer
Panzer32: of course you did; I'm just making sure my team doesn't fire me
MasterZen: I'd rather have ND spend it on Ansars to send to the northeast in case GS lands
MasterZen: Ansars are cheap, the opportunity cost of building them is ideal
[GoW]Donegeal: however... invention means one step closer to Gunpower...
[ND]Darekill: it is not like we would stockpile money
MasterZen: look this is my idea:
MasterZen: each country should have a specific role in all of this
MasterZen: Lego is the inventor. 100% science
MasterZen: GoW rakes the $$$, sends its to Lego
[GoW]GhengisFarb: Stock[piled money isn't in GoW are ND's interests, if GS Roleplay somehows takes a city they could siphon off some of it.
vondrack: hm, good point
MasterZen: ND rakes the $$$, spends it on Ansars. Offensive units is what we need
MasterZen: then raze all the cities :P
vondrack: perhaps Trip could give us a lecture now?
MasterZen: hhaha
[ND]Darekill: *g*
Panzer32: We don't keep the $$, we give it/spend it
[ND]Darekill: trip you never get away without that joke from now on
vondrack: ok, that should work... I believe it should not take long and Lego might be doing a tech every 4 turns
[ND]Darekill: First of all Astronomy and invention must be ready at about the same time.
vondrack: Astronomy will be ready in 5 turns
vondrack: solid ETA
[ND]Darekill: We can sport both of you with money to reach this goal asap.
Panzer32: We need some extra $ to get invention done that quickly
[ND]Darekill: how much
vondrack: then help GoW, we are fast enough with Astro
[ND]Darekill: we hold the cheque book
Panzer32: unfortunatly I don't know, as we are not in GA yet
vondrack: )
[ND]Darekill: name a price we can make it with lum sum from turn to turn.
Panzer32: *probably* not more than 30 gpt
vondrack: ok - no problem, you can work this out between yourselves... we can certainly wait for few turns on 100% tax until Invention is ready
Panzer32: we'll contact you with the details after the GA
[ND]Darekill: O.K you get 40 the nbext few turns until you know how much you need.
Panzer32: (has started)
vondrack: ok, I think we can consider this finished, ok?
[ND]Darekill: right.