DIPLO: Legoland Comments

[Arrian]

He's talking about Education in 3-4 turns MORE than their max pace, I think. So instead of 6 turns, 9 or 10. That gives us more time to complete the Colossus, and then allows us some time to prebuild Copernicus (though I suspect they will be doing the same).

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Ahh... sorry, misunderstanding there. Yes, that could be useful...

I was thinking today about something Vondrack said in last chat: they want to start their GA peacefully. So... they're planning on a commercial wonder, in about 30 turns... is Copernicus commercial?

DeepO

[Aeson]

I was under the impression that they can't hurry it more then they're already doing, but maybe I'm wrong.

No, I meant we want Lego to research it slower.

If we get the Collosus in 5 turns, start our prebuild of Copernicus at 18-19 shields per turn... that puts us at ~22 turns to finish. So if instead of getting Education a turn or two into our prebuild, we get it 5 turns in, then we'd be timed pretty well if Astronomy takes Lego 15 turns to finish.

If we could tie together a Banking/Invention/Astronomy deal (with ND getting Education for Invention), then we might be able to get Lego to slow down research to match that of ND, which would allow us to perfectly time (or at least overbuild) the prebuild for Copernicus, and make a prebuild for Smiths timed that much better.

The Astronomy/Banking swap needs to come with a 'whoever researches Banking gets to be the one to research Economics' clause. That way both teams end up researching a wonder tech. It would also be very interesting to see how Lego reacts to something like that, as I suspect they want Smiths to start their GA (and no doubt want Copernicus too).

We need to come to a concensus about where we are headed soon though. If it's war, we can just forget about the top half of the tech tree for now. Let Lego build the Wonders, and we build Knights...

[Aeson]

Smith's, Collosus, Great Lighthouse, Magellan's, and the UN are commercial wonders.

[DeepO]

Hmmm... 15 turns to Astronomy? I agree it would be perfect, however I doubt they'll go for it. Maybe with some serious diplomatic juggling... but it will be extremely hard to ask for such a delay without them expecting us to prebuild Copernicus. And, after we build the Colossus (hopefully we do), it's so logical to go for Copernicus nobody can miss the hint, so this delay should be negotiated beforehand.

If I see their current rate of research, they can get techs every 8-9 turns without running a deficit. With more libs, unis, and the pyramids, that should speed up... asking for 15 turns on a tech might be overdoing it.

I can't see them building Magellan's easily (which would also more or less be timed right), so they would be going for Smith's. I agree, we need to ask for the right to research Economics, using our planning skills to build Smith's the same turn we discover Econ. That should be relatively easy to negotiate, and should leave us enough time to get a proper prebuild going in Tempest. How fast can we start on that, BTW? If I'm not mistaken, Tempest is also at 18-19 shields max, meaning 32 turns to Smith's... better start there early just in case.

If we would negotiate our way towards Econ, I'm sure Lego will go for Navigation asap (don't know by heart how many prereq's they need). Maybe also something to use in negotiations.

DeepO

[DeepO]

reply just in... bottom line is they ask for 230 gold + WM.

I see 3 options (I'm sure there are more):
1. accept it as is
2. try to negotiate down
3. try to include e.g. a delay of a couple of turns to Bob, and accept the 230 offer.

Not much time today, I'll see the result this afternoon / evening.

DeepO

[Aeson]

I think it's a pretty good deal if we can get the Banking researcher gets to research Economics part put in. That gives both of us at least one good wonder tech to trade around. Whoever goes for Astronomy can then chose Music Theory, Invention or Navigation to get another wonder tech too.

We're basically talking about less than a turn of income, which isn't a terribly big deal.

[zeit]

230 gold + WM is okay, I guess.. But us going for Economics is important too, as Aeson pointed out...

Soon, our commerce output will get a nice boost, first from the Colossus and some time later with Vox's towns after the FP is completed. That means that in the tech after the next, we could probably aim for a tech lead, unless war erupts and we are called to arms. We better prepare for it, maybe even by securing long term deals now.

[DeepO]

okay... I'll give them the 230, asking for economics. I hope to have a chat with Lego in about an hour, but first of all I need to get up to date here (and with my e-mail)

points of chat:
- current deal
- possible 'share the profit' schemes later
- chitchat if they want (basically, I'm quite tired after a good weekend, so not too much from my side)

Anything else? People want to join? I'll leave a message here once I get the room set up.

DeepO

[Shiber]

The time is impossible for me, I'm afraid. I'll probably fall asleep over the keyboard if I go.

[Shiber]

Nevermind, I'll participate.
I feel that there should be at least two of us there. I fear that Lego might take advantage of the situation if only DeepO shows up, and bombard him with questions without giving him a chance to ask anything back.

[notyoueither]

No worries, Shiber. I am along and it is just vondrack for them.

[DeepO]

chat has started... msg me if you want to join

DeepO

[DeepO]

Damn... was thrown off the server, and can't get back in. Please send my apologies to Vondrack, I'll keep trying

DeepO

[Shiber]

You're back!