DIPLO: Legoland Comments

[notyoueither]

I think we come off as a herd of enraged Komodo in 'that thread'. They know that we will need a bone or two to chew on.

Also, Lego is very concerned with the potential for us to gain more GLs, and thus cut them off in a build. That was their lead in to the whole idea.

[Theseus]

I'm launching StormHawk.

Maybe the peace discussions from chat can form the basis of the 'opposing' StormDove faction?

But, in reality, we remain cohesive in here.

[alva]

One other thing I would like to put to them, we think that any presense on Stormia of forces of any other nation would be counter productive to peace negotiations continuing. ie, reign in you puppets or forget it.

Brilliantly done. Absolutely
That's one cornered puppy you've got there.

[Theseus]

It's OK, alva, I think. The Stormhawk thing allows for some extremism, but it certainly needs to be balanced by doves and rationality.

Those who need it, let the steam off!

[notyoueither]

Chat posted.

Highlights of the chat:

Main Points of Peace:
1. the fighting between Vox and GS stops
2. Lego gives GS theology
3. Vox leaves Stormia
4. GS promises not to build the Sistine Chappel

GS CounterPoints laid out to date (more can be added):
1. Vox army. Most of it disbands before any cease fire goes into effect
2. Timing. What do they need to build and how long do they need? [It can not go too long]
3. Verification. GS would need unhindered access to our new lands to verify comliance
4. Harbour. The vox harbour is sold before the cease fire goes into effect. No Iron for Vox before they vacate
5. Free era techs. These will be sold to GS at reasonable prices
6. Compensation. GS seeks compensation for the effects of the embargo on us. [GS got jobbed on Feudalism. That score must be settled].
7... To be added by GS

Best moment:
[23:30] {Shiber> And Beta has killed any remaining chances for peace with Vox still on the continent.
[23:30] {vondrack> yes, that part is clear
[23:31] {Shiber> Not really killed, more like tortured, raped, mutilated, pulled by the hair into an industrial meat tenderizer, melted, vaporized, loaded onto a rocket and blasted it off into the sun
[23:31] {Shiber> or something

I move that Shiber be nominated for understatement of the year.


Weasel words of the chat:
[00:37] {nye_too> we are under the impression that we have been the subject of an embargo.
[00:37] {nye_too> that embargo has damaged our position.
[00:38] {vondrack> as far as I know there was no embargo put in effect
[00:38] {vondrack> can speak for Lego only though
[00:38] {nye_too> i am sure that nathan will have some ideas on what would need to be done to address that
[00:38] {nye_too> it has been reported to us. we do not require confirmation or denial
[00:38] {vondrack> ok, let me rephrase: Legoland has never agreed to embargo you
[00:39] {vondrack> we did not need Feu for quite some time
[00:39] {vondrack> and then we simply "got it"
...
[00:42] {vondrack> as I said - we never joind any embargo against you
[00:42] {vondrack> and I believe I can even say
[00:42] {nye_too> yes. well. vox is the subject of the excercise.
[00:42] {nye_too> not just lego
[00:42] {vondrack> we have never heard of one being put in effect
[00:42] {vondrack> but then, even we may not know everything
[00:43] {nye_too> let's leave that alone. as i said, we do not need confirmation or denial
[00:43] {vondrack> alright

Honestly, I am surprised vondrack would think me that stupid. Ahh well. Life goes on. I would like to remain involved in contact with these guys. I am on very good terms with vondrack. I think I could help us with them.

[notyoueither]

Proposed response to vondrack. We do not have much time...

Hi, vondrack.

Please reread that thread. Theseus is trying to defuse emotions for the good of Apolyton. You may not consider things from Beta's threads to be very serious, but please try to place yourself in the shoes of members of the team being the target of them. Honestly, this game has gone off the rails in some respects and several members of GS are considering resigning because it is not fun to face that crap on a recurring basis. Several members of GS have a high sense of honour, and they feel that honour sullied by Beta's continuous assaults on the truth about us and our actions. Can you and Lego understand that? If you cannot, then you will never understand GS.

Yes, he is using the device of the StormHawks, but stay tuned, the peace marches start soon. It is intended to be fun. Please join in.

Hi, nye!

Finished reading the news. I must admit that the public announcement of the StormHawk party is definitely the way to go on with our negotiations...

I would have appreciated if we received at least some response to our proposal before your team pushes for the kill publicly... or, is this just an initiative of a small GS member group?

We were honest in our offer and sincerely hoped you would consider it. Now, is this still an option or shall we consider the proposal officially rejected?

vondrack

P.S.: I will do my best to stop hostilities on Estonia/Stormia. Unfortunately, I have no control over other teams - but I have expressly demanded in my email to Beta (sent after our chat) that Vox stop any hostilities and sit on the save. I need some time to sort this out.

[notyoueither]

vondrack says Vox is sitting on the save. They are next.

That means we have a long bit to discuss this. Up to 48 hours from Togas' pass of the save.

[Aeson]

All the teams say our diplomacy is bad... Lego and Vox have negotiated to add Feudalism and Theology to our previous demands. Good job guys!

I would like to include a feeler about the Collosus. Ask if they would be willing to reciprocate in regards to Sistene. If Lego is building it too, it would really help us to know, and should be obvious by their answer. None of the other civs seem to have much of a shot at it at this point.

[Harovan]

Feudalism?

About the Colossus: Agreed, let's ask them.

[notyoueither]

Yeah. Our diplomacy sux.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Yeah. Our diplomacy sux.

As long as Beta's "brilliant diplomacy" is only giving us more excuses to ask for more out of a Voxodus agreement, yes, we're the ones that suck...

[Aeson]

Feudalism = Engineering.. sorry

[DeepO]

damn... I missing important events with the team assigned to me

Feeling bad... I'm going to catch up now, and post some comments later (I have some impressions, but am far from up to date)...

Maybe I need to resign as ambassador, I want to be more involved again, but can't see how I'm going to find the time soon. Hopefully, with summer coming, my schedule will ligthen up a bit again, but I'm not sure. This PhD thing is starting to look less and less as the prolonged vacation from work it used to be

DeepO

[DeepO]

Lego's situation in all of this...

I don't know. I can appreciate Vondrack personally wants to get this game back in the half-friendly atmosphere it started in, and I certainly will cheer that. But it looks a bit artificial to me, he certainly is going out of his way to get us to comply. I'm not sure how the assumption was reached that Lego was the one sending mercs after us (I have a hard time believing it, even if it certainly makes sense in a game perspective), but if so, Lego certainly is a better puppetmaster then Togas & Co ever will be... they remain out of sight.

Things I would have liked to be seen in this chat was more talk about tech trading, more talk about possible Lux deals (if our lighthouse can really reach them, we have a very powerful negotiation tool at hand, as we could even become a middleman for Bobian luxes), and more talk about their benefits (although they seem to want to be relatively open with us, in order to convince us). And a feeler for the Colllosus, as Aeson asked before.

A thing that stroke me in the chat was the comment of Vondrack that already a enemy force was on their continent: does that mean GoW have a few units landed there? Or was it just a comment to their barbarians, which they seem to loath, and GoW thinks are a very good source of income for them? (I tend to think the same: If they still keep them free, these are great opportunities for upgrades, and gold)

Further, don't tell them they won't need Sistine, if they feel they absolutely have to build it, let them. And getting Theo for free if want to waive Sistine sounds like a super deal to me, but I fear what Lego will get in return for their kindness.

Oh, and Legoland has to be absolutely huge, if they give half (or a third) of it away so easily. But that we already knew

DeepO

[Shiber]

Originally posted by DeepO
I'm not sure how the assumption was reached that Lego was the one sending mercs after us (I have a hard time believing it, even if it certainly makes sense in a game perspective)

Well, some people raised the notion, but I didn't think much of it until Vondrack mentioned that they can ask GoW to pull back their units. That made them the prime suspect in my eyes.