DIPLO: Glory of War contact LOG

[zeit]

Good news from UnO:

Honorable zeit,

It is my pleasure to inform you that both RL circumstances and some organizational changes within GoW have landed me back 'home' as the ambassador to Gathering Storm. I look forward to hearing from you in the future and hope that we can continue the many pleasant talks that I have come to expect from Gathering Storm.

There has been much discussion within the forums of GoW about the nature of the GS/Voxian war. I need not remind you that there is no love lost between GoW and Vox since the time of their attempted invasion of Bob. It is our understanding that had ND and RP not backed us in an effort to remove them from our island it would be GoW, and not GS that would be dealing with the Immortal army at their gates.

Would it be possible that our teams meet up in a chat to discuss the nature of the war, and, specifically what, if anything, GoW may due to lend their support either openly, or in private, that we may see through the removal of a team that has proven itself to be no more than a loose cannon?

Sincerely,
UnOrthOdOx
Vice CALF and Ambassador of the GoW Team

On a personal note, didn't know you were studying Psychology. I have seen this as much a study in Jungian psychology as it is a game. Half my reason for joining was to watch how the different groups interact, and it certainly has not disapointed.

BTW, can I get a list of the people in government positions for GS? Now that I am your Ambassador, I think my story could use a trip to the mysterious lands of GS...

My reply:

Dear UnOrthOdOx.

I'm very glad we can work together again, my ambassadorship in the GoW was most satisfying thanks to Hot_Enamel and yourself.

I'll have to apologize, though- my participation in the next few days won't be as I would have liked to be- you know, exams period...

I'll try to have the list ready for you in the next 24 hours.

As for the psychology of the game- I never looked at it from a Jungian POV. He does talk about symbols and "magic circle" (mandala) as innate part of our culture and personality, and the ultimate goal of integrating the different archetypes in order to reach psychological balance. Or is it the combination of Introvert or Extrovert along with one of the four psychological functions (thinking, feeling, sensing, intuiting) that he describes that you find applicable to players in the game?
I have heard the Jugian Theory and therapy method is rapidly growing in popularity in the recent years. I have no idea about this beyond the very basics of his earliest working- and I'd love to hear more about it from you, if you're willing.

Cordially
Zeit

[zeit]

my reply:

Dear UnO!

Please accept my apology for the delay, It's been a hectic day, and I've barely made it to finish my academic chores in time...

Thank you for the elaborate explanations of the Jungian'ism (is that an acceptable term?) as you it in the game. I always thought Jung mentioned the symbols and the collective uncs. as universal, but now that you mentioned it, it does make sense that in different cultures (and teams), different symbols and archetypes are menifested in different ways.

And now, for the official list of key-members. This are not "officials" in every sense of the word, as our team is run mostly by discussion and an attempt to reach consensus, but still:

Notyoueither- the founding father of the team, doesn't have any official duty, but he is sometimes looked on as the 'godgather'

Sir Ralph- once a dedicated in-game player, his activity has gown down over the last couple of months, and now is back up. A true Hawk.

Arrian and Thesues- the two co-generals of the GS army. They are always "to the point" and tend to spare the chit-chat.

nbarclay (Nahan)- Our never-sleeping player, and our talented chief economist. He was also our de-facto ambassador in Vox.

Aeson- a dedicated economist and analyst of the team, working alongside Nathan on the short and long-term planning of infrastructure and city planning.

DeepO- a gifted diplomat, who was once a white dove. He is now a bit closer to the dark side, after the traumatic war of Voxian agression.

ManaicStarSeed (MSS)- our newly appointed FAM, who was recently beack from a long exile.

That would be it.

I wish you success with your writing.

Zeit,
Gathering Storm ambassador in the Glory of War

[zeit]

About Vox's possible departure:

Honorable UnOrthOdOx.

Greetings from the Gathering Storm.

As you might have already known, Vox and the GS have recently begun talks in an attempt to end the conflict between us.

I'll just say that our team has decided that in order to end the war with Vox, they must leave the continent. This issue was presented to Vox, but was not discussed, as we have yet to recieve a response from them regarding this idea.

The public's opinion in this matter is also important for us. To be more precise and to the point: If Vox is to leave the continent, they must find have a chunk of land to settle on, this chunk of land would preferably be unclaimed territory, or an agreed upon location.

We wanted to ask you, what is your opinion in this matter, and if you have any suggestions for a suitable location

We would also want to know if you'd even support such a development, should it come into possible realization.

Cordially

Zeit, Gathering Storm's ambassador in the Glory of War.

[zeit]

From UnO, regarding a chat:

Greetings zeit,

I have copied this information to our forums, and hope to have an answer to your inquiry soon.

Also, I wanted to aproach the subject of a possible chat again, I think it may have been lost with our conversation of psychology a bit. Is there a time that would work for GS members to be able to attend a Chat with GoW? We wish to discuss several things and feel a chat is the best forum in which to discuss them, but we also understand if this is impossible with the various schedules. If such is the case, I will attempt to discuss the matters at hand over the course of several PM's/E-mails.

Respectfully,
UnOrthOdOx
Vice Calf and Ambassador to Gathering Storm

My reply:

Honorable UnOrthOdOx.

I'm sorry for not attending the issue of a chat. The next week will be quite busy for me, but I think I can manage it. after the somewhat 'silent' period we've gone trhouh, with regard to foreign relations, I don't think I'll miss this opportunity.

I'll post about this in our board. In the meantime, can you send me the times suitable for your team?

Thank you, and kind regards

Zeit, Ambassador for the Gathering Storm.

[zeit]

Re: chat times:

zeit,

I am unsure if I will be able to PERSONALLY attend or not, but have listed a poll for chat times.

My personal schedule is a bit odd, it seems, and I am only available from 0500 EST - 0800 EST and again from 2200 EST - 2400 EST or so.

GoW, though, has coverage near 24 hours so I am sure there is a time that we can have a representative there to speak with you. I will let you know more as it becomes available.

respectfully,
UnOrthOdOx
Vice Calf and Ambassadore to Gathering Storm

[zeit]

One more

Chat time and Agenda
Honorable zeit,

I hope things are proceeding well on your end.

It seems the best time for GoW to hold a chat would be:

22:00 New York time, converting that (assuming the program in my palm is correct) That is 02:00 GMT, 19:00 California time.

Would this be possible for GS?

Also, I wanted to impart to you the Agenda for the chat, so that we may all be on the same page and progess with something resembling efficiency. (ok, Im just an organizational freak, I find it much easier when everyone is prepared)

The Items that GoW wishes to discuss are as follows:



The Status of War/Peace between GoW and GS


The Status of Scientific Research


The Status of Vox


The Status of Bob


Is there anything that Gathering Storm wishes to add to this list so that I may be fully prepared to discuss it?

Respectfully,
UnOrthOdOx
Vice Calf and Ambassador to Gathering Storm.

My response

Dear UnOrthOdOx,

I have logged your message on our board. I'll let you know about my team's response as soon as possible.

I do have to say, that I fear I won't be able to participate in the chat, but that's okay- I'm not very comfortable with chats and I won't be able to contribute much due to my 'non-english' thinking mode...


Kind Regards
Zeit, ambassador to the Glory of War.

[Theseus]

I very much like Uno's way of thinking... as a business person, I think that having an agenda, and perhaps even a moderator from each team, would add greatly to the value of chats.

Well done, Zeit.

(btw, don;t you all feel better about GoW having read the above, regardless of our long-term strategy... goes to the point, cordial and regular communication *matters*.)

[notyoueither]

June 13 chat

Session Start: Fri Jun 13 20:19:15 2003
Session Ident: #GoW_CoFA
{20:19] * Now talking in #GoW_CoFA
{20:19] {nye> whoo
{20:19] {alva_busy> he
{20:20] {alva_busy> Someone risks a few speeding tickets
{20:20] {nye> heh. got out early and trafic was light
{20:20] * alva_busy sets mode: +o {GoW]jdd2007
{20:20] * alva_busy sets mode: +o nye
{20:21] {alva_busy> chat hasn't started yet
{20:21] {nye> have you begun? don't let me interupt
{20:21] {nye> i hate it when i do that
{20:21] {alva_busy> yep, I'm a clairvoyant
{20:21] * {GoW]Hot_Enamel is now known as {GoW]Hot_Enamel_AFK
{20:22] {{GoW]UnO> Hi NYE
{20:22] {nye> hi, uno
{20:23] {nye> how are you keeping?
{20:23] {{GoW]UnO> I hope so...don't know IRC all that well. Panzer will back up, I hope.
{20:24] {{GoW]Panzer32> huh? Sorry, back up on what?
{20:24] {{GoW]UnO> oh, sorry misread that. Things are fine, still have one son up, though, so I may have sporadic absense.
{20:24] {{GoW]UnO> logging...
{20:24] {nye> ahh. ok. i need to depart for a moment
{20:26] * {GoW]Panzer32 sets mode: +nts
{20:39] {nye> back
{20:41] {{GoW]UnO> are we all set then?
{20:42] {nye> i think so
{20:43] {{GoW]UnO> Panzer? HE?
{20:43] {nye> is mss awake?
{20:43] {{GoW]UnO> don't think so...
{20:43] {{GoW]UnO> want to wait?
{20:43] {nye> he needs some rest
{20:43] {{GoW]Panzer32> sure
{20:44] {{GoW]UnO> he's had a busy day?
{20:44] {nye> not sure how long we would be waiting. he was going on 1 hour sleep last night
{20:44] {alva_busy> he might wake until late afternoon
{20:44] {nye> if alva feels ok, we should proceed. is Nathan paying attention?
{20:44] {alva_busy> *not
{20:45] {alva_busy> sure, although I will be quite most of it
{20:45] {alva_busy> Nathan is busy, I think
{20:45] {alva_busy> *quiet
{20:46] {alva_busy> getting late here
{20:46] {nye> ok.
{20:46] {{GoW]UnO> All set and everyone logging?
{20:46] {nye> sure
{20:47] {{GoW]UnO> Ok. you guys get the agenda?
{20:47] {nye> let me check
{20:48] {{GoW]UnO> I sent it to zeit a few days back
{20:48] {nye> ziet mentioned an agenda, but i don't see it. go ahead, UnO
{20:48] {alva_busy> ,ope, can't find it either
{20:49] {{GoW]UnO> Ok. The first thing that we wanted to cover was to clear up any misconceptions that may exist reguarding GoW in the current situation
{20:49] {{GoW]UnO> pardon, I need a sec...kids...
{20:49] * {GoW]GhengisFarb has joined #GoW_CoFA
{20:49] {nye> hi, gf
{20:50] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> I keep mispelling dtrategy
{20:50] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> figure that
{20:50] {nye> heh
{20:50] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> speak of the devil
{20:51] {nye> right. found the agenda
{20:51] {nye> alva, see the contact log
{20:52] {nye> ok. the current sit. i take it that means beta's thread?
{20:54] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> This is progressing nicely
{20:54] {nye> heh
{20:54] {{GoW]Panzer32> probably
{20:54] * {GoW]Panzer32 sets mode: +o {GoW]GhengisFarb
{20:54] {{GoW]UnO> ok back...sorry
{20:55] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Are we still at war with GS?
{20:55] {{GoW]UnO> Let's just start from the beginning.
{20:55] {nye> yes
{20:55] {{GoW]UnO> That situation.
{20:55] {nye> ok, uno. currenbt sit. go
{20:56] {{GoW]UnO> As GS knows, GoW played a part in the initial deception reguarding Vox landing in Bob.
{20:56] {nye> yes
{20:56] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Reserve a point to clarify that bit
{20:56] {{GoW]UnO> When Vox landed on Bob, we were faced with an uncertain future
{20:57] {{GoW]UnO> Technically, ND and RP were now allowed to bring troops north along our borders.
{20:57] {{GoW]UnO> We did not fear an amphibious invasion from Vox, but we were uncertain if all three teams could be trusted not to take advantage of the numbers.
{20:58] {nye> reasonable
{20:59] {nye> we understand that was a tense moment for gow.
{20:59] * alva_busy nods
{20:59] {{GoW]UnO> We were then told of the Vox plan, and agreed to a portion of their proposal of deception as part of the payment for their city.
{20:59] {{GoW]UnO> They also wished for screenshots and other 'evidence' to be produced.
{20:59] {{GoW]UnO> which we refused.
{21:00] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Reserv point #2 to clarify later
{21:00] {nye> alright
{21:00] {{GoW]UnO> We were also contacted at this time by an employer we cannot name to assist Vox.
{21:01] {{GoW]UnO> We have stated from the beginning we were mercenaries. Hence, the landing of the 2 horse
{21:01] {{GoW]UnO> We cannot discuss the payments or source of this employment.
{21:02] {{GoW]UnO> We currently have a problem, though.
{21:02] {{GoW]UnO> We are technically under contract for 4 more units.
{21:02] {nye> ahhh, yes, that is not so good.
{21:03] {{GoW]UnO> We understand what you need to do, but we also need to fulfill our contract.
{21:03] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Our contract states that we will land 6 units in support of Vox
{21:03] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Doesn't say we have to pillage roads or take cities, just land
{21:03] {{GoW]UnO> really?
{21:03] {nye> since you cannot name your employers, it would be obvious they are not vox.
{21:04] {alva_busy> What kind of units?
{21:04] {{GoW]UnO> As I said, we cannot say.
{21:04] {nye> just making an observation.
{21:04] {{GoW]UnO> There was no agreement for what types of units
{21:04] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> I'm pretty sure, that's why I wanted to land the Horses and have GS scream on the public forum that we had invaded. I would have technically have fulfilled our contract
{21:05] {{GoW]UnO> If this war continues, and we are foced to land units, they will be labeled 'mercenaries'
{21:05] {{GoW]UnO> All we ask at this point is that you keep in mind we are only fulfilling our obligations.
{21:05] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> They should not be construed as representing the approval or official stance of GoW.........
{21:06] {nye> that is... complicated.
{21:06] {{GoW]UnO> We have no vested interest in land on your island, only in our contract.
{21:06] {nye> but we can grant that it is not the full might of gow being brought to bear.
{21:06] * Mss_asleep is now known as MSS
{21:06] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> If they are there when Vox is dead, they will have no reason to stay on Estonia, now will they?
{21:07] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> I would like to negotiate for Incense and Fur
{21:07] {nye> what sorts of units do you plan on sending, and where would you send them?
{21:07] {{GoW]UnO> We have also taken considerable heat reguarding this from our employers, and others in that we have not refused to commit fully.
{21:07] {alva_busy> just a remark: Gow being mercenairies isn't a valid enough reason for this being 'ok', is it
{21:07] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Hey, we got paid cash, we are greedy little warmongers.
{21:07] {{GoW]Panzer32> we do not break our contracts.
{21:08] {Trip-> quick nap MSS :P
{21:08] {{GoW]Panzer32> you could have hired us if you wanted
{21:08] {{GoW]UnO> Yes, you are the recieving end of the contract, but this proves we honor all contracts as well...
{21:08] {nye> yes. i suppose we could have, but it sounds as if you were hired long before we knew there would be a need.
{21:09] {alva_busy> doesn't telling us about the contract, contradict that somewhat?
{21:09] {{GoW]UnO> There was not a non disclosure tag for the contract, only for the employer
{21:09] {MSS> yeah ..baclkk no catching up on how bob turns...
{21:09] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Clarify point #2, the screenshots I sent you were doctored to so that you would not realize we had received a map of your island previously
{21:09] {nye> we knew they were doctored, gf.
{21:10] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> I figured, I just wanted to let you know why
{21:10] {nye> i can't remember where we caught it, but we did.
{21:10] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> At the time, we were under agreement to not disclose that we had received the map
{21:11] {{GoW]UnO> Well, units WOULD have landed last turn, but we were told not to send them by our emplyer. Now that hostilities continue, we are not sure what their plans are presently.
{21:11] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> That was a #$#$ pain in the but trying to recreate the fog of war on those things
{21:11] {{GoW]UnO> sorry, catching up on questions
{21:12] {nye> what sorts of units, and where?
{21:12] {{GoW]UnO> I beleive they are defensive units, GF?
{21:13] {nye> i can;t think of why we would fuss if 4 warriors camped in Voxes northern hills.
{21:13] {{GoW]Panzer32> can we disclose it?
{21:13] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Against my wishes, yes
{21:13] {{GoW]Panzer32> I know what they are
{21:13] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> They should all be movement 1 units
{21:14] {{GoW]Panzer32> Ghengis - they're not all move 1.
{21:14] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> i said should, there may be one movement 2 unit
{21:15] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Has anyone discussed a map trade?
{21:16] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> We have the bulk of Lego's coast explored now
{21:16] {nye> map trades have recently been discussed on our forum.
{21:16] {{GoW]UnO> For the sake of argument and uncertainty at the moment, we cannot disclose the exact units or location.
{21:16] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> We don't want them sunk.
{21:17] {MSS> Really, too bad we are at war We are to the point we are looking to trade
{21:17] {nye> ok. keep in mind that any hostile ships will be sunk on site
{21:17] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> I am keeping that in mind
{21:17] {{GoW]UnO> Define 'hostile'
{21:17] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Not GS
{21:17] {nye> at war with gs and likely to be carrying troops
{21:17] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Not Gs
{21:17] {MSS> yes NYE
{21:18] {MSS> RP has a ship near our waters and will be allowed to pass
{21:18] {{GoW]UnO> If you were to blockade the pass preventing our galleys to arrive at all???
{21:18] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> What if we paint smilies on our ships, they would look friendly
{21:18] {alva_busy> lol
{21:18] {nye> that is many tiles, and our navy may not want to park that far north.
{21:19] {{GoW]UnO> Are there any further questions reguarding this situation?
{21:19] {alva_busy> What if you drop them where we want them?
{21:19] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Where do you want them
{21:19] {MSS> hmmm too soon to tell this is so new
{21:20] {nye> we would need to discuss that
{21:20] {alva_busy> brb, looking at the map.
{21:20] {MSS> tnks alva
{21:20] {{GoW]Panzer32> we have already talked to the other team about where we are going to drop them...
{21:20] {alva_busy> ahh
{21:20] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> how about the hill immediately s of Eliopolis, this would prevenT Vox troops from gaining the highground
{21:20] {nye> ha
{21:20] {MSS> What are your costs?
{21:20] {nye> that is crawling with troops. doubt there would be room for more boots
{21:21] {MSS> true nye
{21:21] {nye> vox is on that position.
{21:21] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> We haven't discovered boots yet
{21:21] {nye> so you don;t know what it is aboot?
{21:21] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Exactly, they would have to move off for our troops
{21:22] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> I think its something that goes on your foot
{21:22] {nye> you move, they move, we move. correct?
{21:22] {nye> or are you between them and us?
{21:22] {nbarclay> GoW is before Vox.
{21:22] {MSS> Aftr us I think
{21:22] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> no you are after them and before us
{21:22] {alva_busy> nah, can't really find any decent location
{21:23] {nye> hi, nathan.
{21:23] {nye> we could discuss it
{21:23] {alva_busy> ah, Nathan might now
{21:23] {nbarclay> I've been popping in and out in the middle of doing something else. I think I'm up to date.
{21:23] {{GoW]UnO> Yes, let's discuss this later, shall we in the interest of movin on? There is alot more to cover.
{21:24] {MSS> Sure... Thats a lot to digest
{21:24] {nye> ok
{21:24] {{GoW]UnO> Next is our Research. We have taken some heat for not refusing to consider trading Chivalry to you guys.
{21:25] {{GoW]UnO> What is the ETA on that, GF, Panzer?
{21:25] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Around 6 tuns I think
{21:25] {{GoW]Panzer32> 5 turns as of last
{21:25] {nye> heat? from whom?
{21:25] {MSS> Thire clients
{21:25] {{GoW]UnO> We cannot disclose that.
{21:25] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> teams that cannot be disclosed at this time
{21:26] {nbarclay> My read is that GoW's clients take the view that if GoW is at war with us, they shouldn't be trading Chivalry to us.
{21:26] {{GoW]UnO> We have agreed to this deal with you, and it will be carried out as agreed. We may have to declare peace, but maintain a 'technical' state of war in order to accomidate this.
{21:26] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> I'm getting tired of being other people's puppet
{21:26] {MSS> Well war must cease for the trade...
{21:26] {alva_busy> Something about 'Iron' springs to mind
{21:27] {{GoW]GhengisFarb>
{21:27] {MSS> That works for me...
{21:27] {{GoW]UnO> We were also wondering if you would be willing to discuss your research path and possible future trades?
{21:27] {alva_busy> I meant a certain thread a couple of days ago
{21:28] {{GoW]UnO> Yes, I think we saw the irony more than any other team in that thread...
{21:28] {nbarclay> Our research path is a bit up in the air right now, thanks to someone's undercutting all our other plans to sell the last tech we researched.
{21:28] {{GoW]Panzer32> I'm not getting it?
{21:28] {alva_busy> lol
{21:28] {{GoW]UnO> The GS public announcement not to trade Iron to Vox.
{21:28] {{GoW]UnO> that the whole world seemed to go into an uproar over...
{21:29] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> We waited, but several other civs flat out didn't want to trade with you
{21:29] * MSS nod
{21:29] {{GoW]UnO> wishing to keep you from gold...
{21:29] {nbarclay> According to RP, they had a good offer from you shortly after we traded it to you.
{21:29] {MSS> for feud
{21:30] {{GoW]UnO> we offered a deal that would take place after the agreed waiting period.
{21:30] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> We took a lot of heat for buying Feudalism, other civs did NOT want you getting any gold
{21:30] {MSS> true you kept ypur work. hank you
{21:30] {MSS> your word..
{21:30] {{GoW]UnO> Again proving our true neutrality in the whole affair, much to certain peoples dismay...

[notyoueither]

{21:30] {{GoW]UnO> Again proving our true neutrality in the whole affair, much to certain peoples dismay...
{21:31] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> The minute you mentioned no disclosure we did not discuss it with anyone
{21:31] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Rp made us an offer before you mentioned Non Disclosre and before we had the tech
{21:31] {MSS> You have acted honorably, I will admit. No easy task for your position....
{21:32] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> From then on it was Togas trying to play us against each other to get it cheap, which we refused to discuss until the NDA ran out
{21:33] {MSS> thank you
{21:33] {{GoW]UnO> Ok. Your up in the air at the moment, Chivalry will take place, that pretty much covers point 2 on the agenda unless there are further questions.
{21:33] {MSS> do you have a price?
{21:33] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> The problem for us was that we had deals with both sides before the war began and we didn't see it coming. This left us with very little room to wiggle in
{21:33] {nye> already agreed, mss
{21:33] {nbarclay> We had agreed on 200 gold, as I recall.
{21:34] {{GoW]Panzer32> yes.
{21:34] * MSS nods
{21:34] {{GoW]UnO> on to #3?
{21:34] {nbarclay> Definitely awkward.
{21:34] {nbarclay> (For you.)
{21:35] {{GoW]UnO> We find that allot...
{21:35] {nbarclay> On to #3 sounds fine to me.
{21:35] {nye> the status of Vox?
{21:35] {{GoW]UnO> Future of Vox...
{21:35] {{GoW]UnO> What are your intentions?
{21:35] {{GoW]UnO> Besides off your island?
{21:35] {MSS> The are burning brigdes daily
{21:36] {nbarclay> Until Beta's little stunt, we would have been happy to see them establish the best civ they possibly can elsewhere.
{21:36] {{GoW]UnO> You asked us for suggestions on locations, we wonder what your team feels is appropriate?
{21:36] {nbarclay> Now there is a certain amount of disagreement.
{21:36] {MSS> We ARE NOT pleased with their lates stunt in the public froum
{21:36] {{GoW]UnO> I can understand that much.
{21:36] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Flat out - our interests in Vox, they are supposed to give us a tech which we want. That is our primary investment in them.
{21:37] {{GoW]UnO> Yep.
{21:37] {MSS> Engineering...
{21:37] {{GoW]UnO> yep.
{21:37] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> We get that tech, we aren't interested in them anymore
{21:37] {MSS> Can we provide that? nathan?
{21:37] {{GoW]UnO> We already paid a down payment...
{21:37] {MSS> what was that?
{21:38] {nye> heh
{21:38] {{GoW]UnO> some gold
{21:38] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> A long time ago
{21:38] {nbarclay> If Vox cooperates, we could arrange to leave The Voice in their hands until they get it, although we'd probably want the tech ourselves as a price for doing so.
{21:38] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> before they attacked
{21:38] {nye> well, down payments to extinct civs are a problem...
{21:38] {{GoW]UnO> yes, they are.
{21:39] {nbarclay> I should say, could probably arrange. I can't commit the team all by myself.
{21:39] {alva_busy> We let vox live long enough, you share the tech, something like that?
{21:39] {{GoW]UnO> I think GoW would be willing to 'gift' it to you for allowing them to live... Panzer? GF?
{21:40] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> If Vox is destroyed I would like to offer Betahound a position on the GoW team. That kind of spin doctoring needs to be fostered.
{21:40] {{GoW]GhengisFarb>
{21:40] {MSS> How gracious of you towards Vox
{21:40] {{GoW]UnO> This could also be construed as you giving them time to leave on the public forum...
{21:40] {{GoW]Panzer32> "I think GoW would be willing to 'gift' it to you for allowing them to live... Panzer? GF?" Do you mean Vox gifting it to GS?
{21:40] {alva_busy>
{21:40] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Betahound is a master at that
{21:40] {MSS> I was wondering if GS needed his services...
{21:41] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> He may find himself in a bidding war
{21:41] {alva_busy> lol
{21:41] {MSS> They seem to be 10 + turns from it, can we beat that?
{21:41] {MSS> nathan?
{21:41] {{GoW]UnO> I believe they stated 15.
{21:42] {MSS> That was 2 turns ago...
{21:42] {{GoW]UnO> I must step away for a moment again. Panzer, care to take over for a sec?
{21:42] {{GoW]UnO> GF?
{21:42] {{GoW]Panzer32> sure
{21:42] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Sure
{21:42] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Go Panzer
{21:43] {{GoW]Panzer32> basically, if we were to get Eng from you instead of Vox, how much would you want for it?
{21:43] {nbarclay> I don't think I'd want to try to beat that research time if we can get the tech for free later. We need gold for other things, and we'll be hurting financially between the time our GA ends and the time we catch up on city improvements.
{21:43] {nbarclay> Crosspost.
{21:44] {{GoW]Panzer32> ok, so you would rather keep Vox around for Eng.
{21:44] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> If there is the possiblity of getting Vox to finish it that would be the best route in my opinion, both GS and GoW need cash
{21:44] {nbarclay> If we could get the right deals with other teams, it might be worth researching it ourselves, but we'd need to be absolutely sure the rest of the world would pay its fair share in some form or another.
{21:45] {{GoW]Panzer32> For Vox to give you Eng, it would most likely to be in a peace deal.
{21:45] {MSS> This worries me...
{21:45] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Doubtful, (selling Engineering) Vox has deals with almost all the other civs (a reason why they don't support GS wiping Vox out)
{21:46] {MSS> 15 turns is a long time. If we decide to eliminate Vox, we want to do it sooner than that
{21:46] {alva_busy> In that case, it might be worth it to get rid of vox sooner
{21:47] {{GoW]Panzer32> my suggestion: see if you can make peace with them getting Eng ASAP.
{21:47] {MSS> I think tht we should honnor Voxes Eng Deals for buy off of thier elimination.
{21:47] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> I'm fairly confident Vox presold Engineering to Lego and Roleplay, that would explain their support of a peace plan
{21:47] {MSS> This is all theroy now...
{21:48] {{GoW]UnO> ok back
{21:48] {{GoW]UnO> gotta love children.
{21:48] {{GoW]UnO> "but YOURE still awake"
{21:48] * MSS nods
{21:48] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> We decided to gift all our cities to GS and join their team
{21:48] {alva_busy> other peaple kids..., sure, great
{21:49] {{GoW]UnO> Ok.
{21:49] {MSS> hehe... that would really rock the world
{21:49] {{GoW]UnO> That would be hard to defend on Bob...
{21:49] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> I'm a horrible negotiator
{21:49] {{GoW]UnO> only 1 defender/city...
{21:49] {MSS> we dont believe that GF
{21:49] {nye> we'd get emily to talk to them
{21:49] {{GoW]UnO> Ill run for FA in GS
{21:50] {{GoW]UnO> anyway back on topic.
{21:50] {MSS> Would you accept the elimination of vox if we gave you engineerin?
{21:50] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Can I run a city?
{21:50] {MSS> and honored their deal
{21:50] {MSS> this is all hypothetical
{21:50] {{GoW]UnO> I think we would need to bring that back to the full team
{21:50] {alva_busy> How do we get to give eng??
{21:50] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> I may not be Emperor in a few days but yes, I think that would fly
{21:50] {MSS> sure, as we would too
{21:50] {{GoW]Panzer32> I think this is all hypothetical, alva
{21:51] {Trip-> LoL how evil
{21:51] {Trip->
{21:51] {nye> very hypothetical. vox dies. other deals are not part of that
{21:51] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Count Tripula
{21:51] {{GoW]Panzer32> we would have to discuss with the team
{21:51] {alva_busy> sure, but we can't give anything if we don't have it, do we?
{21:51] {MSS> dedicate research, eliminate vox and get oit to them. So wht if it is 16 -18 turns...
{21:52] {MSS> we would have to plan and make deals...
{21:52] {nbarclay> Does anyone here know how many turns are left in our GA? I've lost track. (Not a great admission for a chief economist. )
{21:52] {{GoW]UnO> We'll bring that offer back to the team and Ill answer you back through zeit.
{21:52] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> You would have a whole island to yourselves, leaving you in a postioin to concentrate on infrastructure and research
{21:52] {alva_busy> Or let vox live a litle longer and get Eng for free..
{21:52] {MSS> thanks... we will do likewise...
{21:52] {{GoW]UnO> meanwhile, you guys get the # turns worked out.
{21:52] {MSS> nathan... 2 or three. We started in turn 94 I believe
{21:53] {{GoW]UnO> Ok good.
{21:53] {nye> what a massive opp for miscomunication
{21:53] {{GoW]UnO> Any other questions about Vox, anything I forgot GOW members?
{21:54] {{GoW]Panzer32> I don't think so
{21:54] {nye> yes. one
{21:54] {{GoW]UnO> Yes?
{21:54] * MSS is now known as mss_brb
{21:54] {{GoW]Panzer32> I'm ready for D
{21:54] {nye> i feel i should make it clear that many on gs will not accept conditions on the death of vox.
{21:55] {nye> i do not want to undercut mss, but i do not want gow to have a flase impression.
{21:55] {nye> *false
{21:55] {{GoW]UnO> This is all hypothetical, I know.
{21:55] {nye> very good
{21:55] {{GoW]UnO> quoting boeing guidlines: meetings are for relaying information, not working issues.
{21:55] {{GoW]UnO>
{21:56] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> But it helps to understand other teams positions
{21:56] {nye> right.
{21:56] {{GoW]UnO> Ok, on to point 4?
{21:56] {nye> after beta's thread, most of the remaining doves are looking more like hawks
{21:56] {{GoW]UnO> are there any doves on GS?
{21:57] {{GoW]UnO> jk
{21:57] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> on the grill
{21:57] {nye> i'm afraid it has backfired very nastily on those who thought it was a good idea
{21:57] {{GoW]UnO> Status of Bob.
{21:57] {nye> go ahead
{21:57] {{GoW]UnO> We are being kept in the dark a bit recently.
{21:57] * mss_brb is now known as mss
{21:58] {{GoW]UnO> This has us concerned.
{21:58] {mss> One sec...
{21:58] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> uh oh
{21:58] {{GoW]UnO> Have you guys heard anything from the other teams?
{21:58] {mss> go ahead.. we can discuss it i our forum...
{21:58] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> their communicating with their allies
{21:59] {{GoW]UnO> ...
{21:59] {{GoW]UnO> We're next on their list...
{21:59] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> quick, who else is on the forums
{21:59] {{GoW]UnO> I can be.
{21:59] {{GoW]UnO> Oh, you mean, never mind.
{22:00] {{GoW]UnO> it's panag!!! their dealing with panag.
{22:00] {{GoW]Panzer32> what are you talking about Ghengis?
{22:00] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> which team is he on?
{22:00] {nye> i'm not sure what is occupying mss. i'm sure he will return.
{22:00] {nbarclay> I checked our history and the attack that began our GA was Turn 93.
{22:00] {mss> I am back
{22:00] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> It was a joke, Panzer
{22:01] {{GoW]UnO> We were wondering what you have heard from the other teams of Bob.
{22:01] {mss> just RO latly.. Alva?
{22:01] {{GoW]UnO> We have been being kept in the dark a bit, making us think something is up.
{22:01] {mss> RP
{22:01] {{GoW]Panzer32> ok
{22:01] {alva_busy> sorry, have to catch up
{22:01] {mss> Me too
{22:01] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> wow, they just came right out with it
{22:02] {mss> ??
{22:02] {nbarclay> Who just came right out with what?
{22:02] {alva_busy> Not much to be honest.
{22:02] {mss> We saidthtw e contacted RP, but it was a bust
{22:02] {mss> it got a little agg over costal exploration...
{22:02] {MRex> I got to go guys, its been, um, interesting listening in to this chat. Have a good night all.
{22:03] * MRex has left #gow_cofa
{22:03] {mss> u suspect RP is upto something?
{22:03] {{GoW]UnO> We don't know.
{22:03] {alva_busy> ND has gone through several changes lately and has therfore been rather quiet.
{22:03] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Ever since we took the stance of not supporting the gold and tech embargo against GS, we have been less and less in the loop with other teams, we are growing concerned they are forming an alliance against us
{22:03] {{GoW]UnO> We have a gut feeling hostilities might break out on Bob again.
{22:03] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> nye Mrex, welcome to GoW
{22:04] {{GoW]UnO> IF we are the target, can we expect any support from GS?
{22:04] {nye> who was MRex?
{22:04] {alva_busy> GOW from the north, who will cover you in the south?
{22:04] {{GoW]Panzer32> new member
{22:04] {{GoW]UnO> If we are not the target, who do you feel we should back?
{22:04] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> i just don't want GS attacking us as part of the alliance
{22:04] * mss has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
{22:05] {nye> bugger
{22:05] {nye> gow, we have no plans to go to bob.
{22:05] * mss has joined #GoW_CoFA
{22:05] {{GoW]UnO> Not in support, or in conquest...
{22:05] {{GoW]UnO> Any possibility of financial support?
{22:06] {nye> support would require an invitation. we have received none.
{22:06] {mss> damn connection
{22:06] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> If war breaks out on Bob, is it safe to assume GoW and GS can maintain friendly trade relations?
{22:06] {{GoW]UnO> Should we ask, would you be there, or would it be first come/first serve?
{22:07] {{GoW]UnO> And, if we are not a target, and ND/RP go at it, who do you feel we should support?
{22:07] {nye> good questions
{22:07] {alva_busy> We will make a public outcry for peace
{22:07] {mss> nod
{22:07] {nye> lol, alva
{22:08] {{GoW]UnO> We all know how well THOSE work
{22:08] {nbarclay> My strictly personal inclination is that it is in GS's best interest not to have any civ on Bob become too dominant.
{22:08] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> And blast the aggressor for being :aggressive:
{22:09] {{GoW]UnO> What is 'too powerfull?'
{22:09] {alva_busy> This not something one can answer, is it..
{22:09] {alva_busy> *easely
{22:10] {{GoW]UnO> Is this perhaps better dealt with through PMs to get the full team?
{22:10] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Seriously, would it be possible to maintain friendly trade relations between GS and GoW? You have incense, fur, and iron
{22:10] {mss> Yes.
{22:10] {alva_busy> aha, iron
{22:11] {nye> yes, uno. the team would need to discuss these things.
{22:11] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> This will have a major impact on whether we mount a strong defense or cave in and give half our cities away to insure our existence
{22:11] {alva_busy> without making any promises, I'd say we can (stay on friendly basis)
{22:11] {{GoW]UnO> Ok, Ill put that on my list for zeit.
{22:11] {nye> gf, we are inclined to be honest, and reliable
{22:11] {mss> actually (this is personally speakin no way official) GoW has been honorable and supportiv of GS, morso than anyone else...
{22:11] {{GoW]UnO> damn, MZ didn't tell me this job (you guys) would be so much work :0
{22:11] {{GoW]UnO>
{22:12] {nye> hehe
{22:12] {alva_busy> lol
{22:12] {alva_busy> we will break you too
{22:12] {nye> we're either silent, or 54 voices. take your pick. nss is to fix that though.
{22:12] {{GoW]UnO> "oh UnO, go to GS, they know you...
{22:12] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> If have secure sources of Iron, etc, then we can feel secure in defending ourselves against an enemy
{22:12] {alva_busy> up to moment, you will hate us too
{22:13] {{GoW]UnO> I hate no one.
{22:13] {alva_busy> yet
{22:13] {nye> heve you had good contact with nd in the past?
{22:14] {{GoW]UnO> Well, timeline and I had some fun once upon a time...held a grudge for a bit, but was playing RoN with him just the other night.
{22:14] {alva_busy> Anyone have any idea what iron is actually worth??
{22:14] {{GoW]UnO> ND has yet to break anything if that's what you are asking.
{22:14] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> depends on your situation
{22:14] {{GoW]UnO> They are also hard to get a read on their feelings.
{22:15] {nye> i can believe that.
{22:15] {mss> its the non native thing...
{22:15] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> So far, we have had excellent dealings with everyone but Lux
{22:15] {mss> lol
{22:15] {{GoW]UnO> its also they feel everyone is against them for being non-poly. just personal observation...
{22:15] {alva_busy> who???
{22:15] {nye> but things have chilled lately?
{22:15] {alva_busy> they are a small team too
{22:16] {{GoW]UnO> yes, we are not being contacted as regularly...
{22:16] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> the teams are getting smaller
{22:16] {{GoW]UnO> or getting as much info.
{22:16] {nye> you are concerned with a rp/nd alliance?
{22:16] {{GoW]UnO> yes, basically.
{22:16] {alva_busy> Like I said many leader and diplo changes
{22:16] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> MavSon isn't as talkative as Borc or Darekill
{22:17] {{GoW]UnO> This also brings about another item that should be discussed.
{22:17] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Borc and Darekill HATED Togas, MavSon appears to love RP
{22:17] {mss> hmmm
{22:17] {{GoW]UnO> If hostilities come to Bob and we are not the target, we have certain deals in the works with both teams in the future.
{22:17] {{GoW]UnO> Just like what happened with you guys, we will honor all of these.
{22:18] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> ANother political catastrophe in the works.
{22:18] {nye> our code would insist we do likewise
{22:18] * mss bows
{22:18] {{GoW]UnO> However, we fear we could become the target of a propoganda campaign like unto what you are seeing.
{22:18] {mss> from RP?
{22:18] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Rightous Propoganda team
{22:18] {mss> they could pull it off
{22:18] {{GoW]UnO> We just ask that you listen to us before making any judgements, as we have tried to do here.
{22:19] {nye> we are getting good at spotting the true motives of such threads.
{22:19] {mss> Believe us we will
{22:19] {alva_busy> hmm, you did play along for quit some time
{22:19] * mss summons feelgood moment...
{22:19] {mss> Actually I think that we potentially have a lot in common
{22:19] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> I agree
{22:20] * mss retrus to normal
{22:20] {{GoW]UnO> Yes.
{22:20] {mss> We do not buy into the PR game, we just scramble to defend ourselvs
{22:20] {nye> It occurs to me that RP and Lego want as much trouble for other civs, as far away from them as possible.

[notyoueither]

{22:20] {nye> It occurs to me that RP and Lego want as much trouble for other civs, as far away from them as possible.
{22:21] {mss> and watch with appalled amazment that folks buy into that sort of thinng
{22:21] {alva_busy> smart tactic
{22:21] {{GoW]UnO> I fear Togas could be far superior to even Beta when he wants to...
{22:21] {nye> i know so
{22:21] * mss mods
{22:21] {{GoW]UnO> Well, you and I have reason to from the courts, nye...
{22:21] {mss> hehe
{22:21] {alva_busy> Togas hasn't got the humour, beta makes it look like he just improvised something
{22:22] {mss> courts smorts
{22:22] {{GoW]UnO> the DG courts.
{22:22] {mss> when he has a bone to pick... watchout
{22:22] {alva_busy> Everybody is weary of togas (reputation procedes the man? something like that )
{22:22] {mss> good point alva
{22:23] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> He's a lawyer for heavens sake
{22:23] {{GoW]UnO> Ok.
{22:23] {mss> inst Unorto?
{22:23] {alva_busy> and a good one me thinks
{22:23] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Persuading people is his job
{22:23] {{GoW]UnO> Inst?
{22:23] {mss> nod
{22:23] {mss> isnt..
{22:23] {{GoW]UnO> Hell no
{22:23] * mss bows
{22:23] {{GoW]UnO> If you must no, I run a warehouse.
{22:24] {{GoW]UnO> very INTERESTING warehouse, but a warehouse.
{22:24] {alva_busy> He wasn't on the OJ team, was he
{22:24] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> And a haunted ont
{22:24] {mss> You are organized
{22:24] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> one
{22:24] {{GoW]UnO> Im a freak for organization
{22:24] {mss> that you are... I respect that
{22:24] {{GoW]UnO> When you report for 3 billion $ in assets to the airforce, it breeds you to become organized...
{22:24] {alva_busy> back to topic? we seem to have wandered somewhat....
{22:24] {mss> back to point... your worry about the smear campaign
{22:25] {alva_busy> beat ya
{22:25] {mss> lol
{22:25] {{GoW]UnO> We are rapped up, all but what GS added to the agenda.
{22:25] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> I gotta go, I have a whole bunch of Gate Guards I have to prepare in the morning
{22:26] {{GoW]UnO> You have harbors comming online soon?
{22:26] {{GoW]UnO> How soon?
{22:26] {nbarclay> My father just called a few minutes ago, so I'm out of the loop right now if anyone's wondering.
{22:26] {mss> BTW we ay GS appreciate the support we got from you in thepublic forum today
{22:26] {mss> at gs..
{22:26] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> What support?
{22:26] {{GoW]UnO> and don't we also need a map to trade via them?
{22:26] {mss> not jumping to conclusions,
{22:26] {{GoW]UnO> GF, from me
{22:26] {alva_busy> 4 - 6 turns?
{22:26] {mss> both
{22:26] {nye> no, uno. we can initiate trades.
{22:26] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Way to go UnOrtho!
{22:27] {mss> You didnt jump to "oh poor Vox"
{22:27] {{GoW]UnO> I said to hel with it and stated my mind.
{22:27] {{GoW]UnO> nye, ok.
{22:27] {mss> That is why I think we are similar, team wise..
{22:27] {{GoW]UnO> What are you wanting for furs and insence?
{22:28] {{GoW]UnO> And possibly Iron later.
{22:28] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Furs and Incense, for instance
{22:28] {mss> You have wins no?
{22:28] {nye> what lux's do you have. (bad pun)
{22:28] {mss> wines
{22:28] {{GoW]UnO> Wine.
{22:28] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> Just one win against Lux
{22:28] {mss> lol
{22:28] {{GoW]UnO> we have a lux worker...
{22:29] {{GoW]UnO> all that remains....
{22:29] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> We have wine and eventually Gems
{22:29] {mss> How long to gems?
{22:29] {{GoW]UnO> Im so outdated on our map...
{22:30] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> not sure, my city schedule got thrown off schedule
{22:30] {{GoW]UnO> We need to get Aro back and making maps...
{22:30] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> What happened to Aro?
{22:30] {{GoW]UnO> He's recording a CD with his band
{22:31] {Trip-> at least he went out in style :P
{22:31] {{GoW]UnO> Im buying a copy straight from him
{22:31] {Trip-> is it in Portuguese?
{22:31] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> No digital
{22:31] {{GoW]UnO> I don't care. I listen to Operah and don't understand half of it.
{22:32] {Trip-> :P
{22:32] * Trip- crawls back to the C3C forums
{22:32] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> I can't understand Opral either
{22:32] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> oprah
{22:32] * mss is now known as mss_brb_wife_calls
{22:32] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> She heard my Oprah comment
{22:33] {{GoW]UnO> NYE, nathan, where are we on the lux? Is this best saved for PM's?
{22:33] {{GoW]UnO> I need to go soon...
{22:33] {{GoW]GhengisFarb> I am really leaving now.
{22:33] {nye> pm, i thin uno
{22:33] * {GoW]GhengisFarb has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
{22:33] {{GoW]UnO> Sounds like a plan.
{22:33] {{GoW]Panzer32> ok, good. Its late here
{22:33] {nye> may i ask, what is gow's official position on the future of vox?
{22:33] {{GoW]UnO> I want to thank you guys for listening.
{22:34] {{GoW]jdd2007> kill them all!
{22:34] {nye> besides the contracts
{22:34] {Trip-> haha
{22:34] {Trip-> jdd speaks up at last
{22:34] {{GoW]UnO> Right now, to let them live because of our tech deal.
{22:34] {nye> beyond tech?
{22:34] {{GoW]UnO> We also wouldn't mind seeing someone on the lego island just to take up some of that MASSIVE space.
{22:34] * mss_brb_wife_calls is now known as mss
{22:35] {{GoW]UnO> Beyond that, it's all PR stuff truthfully.
{22:35] {nye> they do have a lot of space, according to aeson's tile count
{22:35] {nye> but of course, you can see the coasts
{22:35] {{GoW]UnO> Last map I saw was pretty big...
{22:35] {{GoW]UnO> perhaps it is 2 seperate islands, though...
{22:35] {nye> do you think lego woulf take them?
{22:36] {{GoW]UnO> there was allot of fog. Im not up on the map...Panzer?
{22:36] {mss> I have to go.... can some one from GS get the log
{22:36] {nye> yes, mss
{22:36] {{GoW]UnO> Don't know. We were trting a 3 way chat, but it fell through.
{22:36] {{GoW]Panzer32> yes, the map?
{22:36] {{GoW]UnO> trying.
{22:36] * mss bows out and bids all g'nite
{22:36] {{GoW]UnO> yes, lego, large, correct?
{22:36] {nye> g'night
{22:36] * mss has left #GoW_CoFA
{22:37] {{GoW]Panzer32> yes
{22:37] {{GoW]UnO> lots of unclaimed.
{22:37] {{GoW]UnO> ?
{22:37] {{GoW]Panzer32> thanks for the leading q's there Unortho
{22:37] {{GoW]Panzer32>
{22:37] {{GoW]UnO> They are having barb 'troubles'
{22:37] {alva_busy> Disclaimer"not official" blah: How about swapping worldmaps?
{22:38] {{GoW]Panzer32> The southern section is actually 70% claimed from what we can see on the coast.
{22:38] {nye> it is large, yes?
{22:38] {{GoW]UnO> We would certainly be open to something along those lines.
{22:38] {{GoW]Panzer32> The northern section is not as good terrain, and I haven't seen any indication that it has been settled.
{22:38] {{GoW]Panzer32> one minute, starting the game
{22:39] {{GoW]UnO> That would need aproval from the team, though.
{22:39] {nye> of course
{22:39] {{GoW]UnO> Our concern is the Barb farming.
{22:39] {{GoW]UnO> lots o free gold to be had.
{22:39] {nye> yes
{22:39] {{GoW]Panzer32> I think I would support trading WMs
{22:40] {nye> when was the last time gow spoke with rp about the vox situation?
{22:40] {{GoW]UnO> we tried earlier this week, but it all fell through (server crashed)
{22:41] {nye> not much luck with chats lately
{22:41] {{GoW]UnO> nope.
{22:41] {{GoW]Panzer32> The southern/Eastern section of Legoland is about as large as RP's territory (including the part RP hasn't settled yet)
{22:42] {{GoW]Panzer32> we have no idea of the size of the Northern part
{22:42] {{GoW]UnO> yet.
{22:42] {{GoW]Panzer32> all we see on it are mountains, hills and deserts
{22:42] {{GoW]Panzer32> yes, Uno
{22:42] {nye> as we calculated. they should be larger than you
{22:42] {nye> i mean rp
{22:42] {{GoW]Panzer32> our galley is almost circled around the SE part
{22:43] {{GoW]UnO> OH, hell yes.
{22:43] {{GoW]Panzer32> yes, we know they are
{22:43] {{GoW]UnO> A bit deceiving on tile count, though.
{22:43] {{GoW]UnO> we have several cities not expanded yet.
{22:43] {nye> hense, some gow posts about... 'wait a minute, who should we be concerned about?'
{22:44] {{GoW]UnO> posts? or questions?
{22:44] {nye> both, i guess.
{22:44] {{GoW]Panzer32> I wonder how happy Legoland was to find themselves on an island?
{22:44] {{GoW]UnO> Yes, we are cocerned about Bob, and RP/ND splitting it north/south/
{22:45] {{GoW]UnO> And Lego in the long run.
{22:45] {nye> hmmm
{22:45] {{GoW]Panzer32> Lego has at least 3 irons
{22:46] {nye> are you keeping up with rp and nd in strength?
{22:46] {{GoW]UnO> We could hold our own against either ONE.
{22:46] {{GoW]UnO> Not both, likely.
{22:46] {{GoW]UnO> It would be a defensive front.
{22:46] {nye> i see
{22:47] {{GoW]UnO> Riders are good for patrolling, so splitting the forces shoudn't pose too much problem.
{22:47] {{GoW]Panzer32> one problem is our shape, since we are pretty narrow on top of ND.
{22:47] {alva_busy> RP is not likely to leave a door open though (for us), I doubt they would come full capacity at you (which is quite far)
{22:49] {{GoW]UnO> It has crossed our minds that it may be opportunity for you to attack as well, given the short distance between us.
{22:49] {{GoW]UnO> Can you assure us that will not happen?
{22:49] {{GoW]UnO> I think we can probably hold our own otherwise.
{22:49] {alva_busy> ever or short-term?
{22:50] {{GoW]UnO> Well, you need to eventuall to win.
{22:50] {{GoW]UnO>
{22:50] {nye> as i said, uno. we have no plans to go to bob, and no invitations.
{22:50] {{GoW]UnO> We understand that.
{22:50] {nye> we are also likely to remeber who did not completely isolate us.
{22:50] {{GoW]UnO> How will we be informed of an invitation?
{22:50] {alva_busy> nah, we would be glad to get this VOX thin done and over with.
{22:50] {nye> you could invite us.
{22:51] {{GoW]UnO> Could there be an agreement that we each agree to notify x turns before attacking?
{22:51] {{GoW]Panzer32> I think you having the lighthouse sort of makes the idea of invasion a more reasonable fear
{22:51] {{GoW]UnO> each other that is.
{22:51] {Trip-> LoL
{22:51] {Trip-> "Hey, we'll be attacking you in 10 turns"
{22:51] {Trip->
{22:51] {{GoW]UnO> Or a NAP
{22:51] {nye> a good question for pm's uno. beyond the ability of any gs member to comit to on the spot.
{22:52] {{GoW]UnO> NAP for X turns sounds like a reasonable deal we could make.
{22:52] {{GoW]UnO> We both have a history of trust.
{22:52] {{GoW]UnO> Panzer?
{22:52] {nye> yes. that sounds reasonable, except for... contracts?
{22:52] {alva_busy> Yup, but you know what RP would think of that
{22:52] {{GoW]UnO> (non agression pact)
{22:53] {{GoW]UnO> THis would be a contract, preempting our making any new ones against you.
{22:53] {{GoW]Panzer32> NAP sounds OK
{22:53] {{GoW]UnO> (after the current affair.
{22:53] {{GoW]UnO> who says RP needs to know?
{22:53] {nye> so. we... look past 4 or 6 units involved in our war, and assure you that we will stay our of your war?
{22:54] {{GoW]jdd2007> what mama dont know wont hurt her
{22:54] {{GoW]UnO> If war happens.
{22:54] {{GoW]UnO> we don't know as of now.
{22:54] {{GoW]Panzer32> as long as our 4 mercenary units are not involved in the NAP, then sure
{22:54] {nye> heh. sounds like a good deal, for one of us.
{22:55] {{GoW]UnO> there are 4 units, you already killed 2.
{22:55] {alva_busy> wow, sarcasm overdrive
{22:55] {nye> yes. and now we need to worry about 4 more.
{22:55] {{GoW]UnO> And we certainly understand, I was proposing for after that is finished.
{22:55] {nye> i see, uno. i am trying hard not to react too poorly, but perhaps you can see our pov?
{22:56] {{GoW]UnO> certainly.
{22:56] {{GoW]UnO> I expected as much.
{22:56] {nye> i certainly will not say 'no', bacause i am not inclined to, and neither am i empowered to.
{22:56] {nye> it would be good to take up with zeit.
{22:56] {{GoW]UnO> Im trying not to push your buttons in an attempt to see what is really on your mind.
{22:57] {{GoW]UnO>
{22:57] {nye> hehe. no doubt
{22:57] {nye> to be honest?
{22:57] {{GoW]UnO> always a best bet.
{22:57] {nye> gs wants nothing more than to finish vox and return to peace.
{22:57] {alva_busy> auw, this is gonna hurt
{22:57] {nye> we are not overly warlike by nature, unless provoked.
{22:58] {{GoW]UnO> GoW wants be done with this contract as well.
{22:58] {nye> if those 4 units do not cause much fuss, if any, then i cannot see myself being opposed to an nap.
{22:58] {alva_busy> Yeah, but you did accept it and profited from it.
{22:59] {{GoW]UnO> And can you blame us for profitting?
{22:59] {nye> but, i was a dove, and events quickly put to hood on me.
{22:59] {alva_busy> nope, certainly not
{22:59] {{GoW]UnO> we have said all along we are mercenaries
{23:00] {alva_busy> well, anyone can be mercenairies, lego will probably go to war someday aswell...
{23:00] {{GoW]Panzer32> but we advertise!
{23:00] {alva_busy> lol
{23:00] {{GoW]UnO> I can see that GS needs to go back and discuss things. There is allot here to digest for both of us.
{23:01] {nye> yes
{23:01] {alva_busy> many good things
{23:01] {{GoW]UnO> Good and bad both.
{23:01] {{GoW]UnO> Honest all the way around.
{23:01] {alva_busy> as always...
{23:02] {{GoW]UnO> I thank you all for taking the time to meet with us, and hopefully we can do it again later.
{23:02] {{GoW]UnO> Hopefully on more mutually beneficial terms.
{23:02] {nye> thanks to you as well, uno, and the rest of gow.
{23:02] {alva_busy> :b
{23:02] {{GoW]Panzer32> thank you too, and youre welcome!
{23:02] {{GoW]UnO> Panzer, you have a log?
{23:03] {{GoW]Panzer32> I believe so
{23:03] {nye> take care, and keep us informed of events on bob. we react slowly due to our nature
{23:03] {alva_busy> hehe
{23:03] {{GoW]UnO> NYE, nathan, alva thanks, this was far more pleasant than I thought it might go, given the information to be digested.
{23:03] {nye> it is interesting that the 'one' voice was placed next to the cacaphony
{23:03] {alva_busy> uno, will you mke a list suggestions to be sent to GS?
{23:03] {{GoW]UnO> Hey, I fully understand GS, and their politics. Slow is fine
{23:04] {alva_busy> lol
{23:04] {nye> uno. we are realistic. not weasels as it appears some others may be
{23:04] {Trip-> you callin me a weasel? :P
{23:04] {nye> hehe
{23:04] {{GoW]Panzer32> I have the chat log. Anyone from GS want it (if they didn't log it)?
{23:05] {{GoW]UnO> I have for PMs: NAP after the current situation, price for lux's, anything else?
{23:05] {{GoW]Panzer32> now play nice
{23:05] {nye> please forward it to me, panzer.
{23:05] {alva_busy> world map?
{23:05] {{GoW]UnO> Ah, yes.
{23:05] {{GoW]UnO> thanks
{23:05] {nye> notyoueither@hothmail dot com
{23:05] {alva_busy> unit placement (if we are quick?)
{23:05] {nye> you can spell hotmail, right? i can't appearently
{23:05] {{GoW]UnO> NYE, you just call me a weasel?
{23:06] {nye> no. not you uno
{23:06] {nye> and not anyone from gow
{23:06] {Trip-> just me :P
{23:06] {{GoW]UnO> darn, I thought I might add that to my list of quotes for after this game is over.
{23:06] {{GoW]UnO> Im getting quite a collection.
{23:06] {nye> and some of the other self righteous voices, perhaps.
{23:07] {Trip->
{23:07] {{GoW]Panzer32> sent to NYE
{23:07] {nye> thanks, panzer
{23:07] {{GoW]UnO> Ok, you post the log, Ill do a summary, K panzer?
{23:07] {{GoW]Panzer32> ok
{23:07] {{GoW]UnO> jdd, don't be such a stragner.
{23:08] {{GoW]Panzer32> new thread or use an old one, Uno?
{23:08] {{GoW]UnO> you can post now and then, you know.
{23:08] {{GoW]UnO> I think we should do a thread for this.
{23:08] {{GoW]UnO> Ill have plenty of PM's for the other one.
{23:08] {{GoW]UnO> keep discussion seperate.
{23:08] {{GoW]Panzer32> k
{23:08] {alva_busy> oh, and uno, try to set the beginning of a new chat
{23:09] {{GoW]UnO> Certainly, we want this routine?
{23:09] {{GoW]UnO> Even just for FYI stuff?
{23:09] {alva_busy> sure, not daily though
{23:09] {{GoW]UnO> between our teams?
{23:09] {{GoW]UnO> bi-weekly?
{23:09] {alva_busy> sounds good
{23:09] {nye> nothing is lost by talking. much stands to be gained
{23:09] {{GoW]jdd2007> im sorry Un0
{23:09] {{GoW]UnO> (every 2 weeks, that was.
{23:09] {alva_busy> if more pressing-->sooner
{23:10] {nye> sounds good. m-t-w would be better
{23:10] * Trip- is now known as Trip{sleep]
{23:10] {{GoW]UnO> Sounds good. Now Im on you guys full time, youll be hearing allot. :P
{23:10] {alva_busy> Hey I'm not stupid ok
{23:10] {nye> oh oh. lots of reading
{23:10] {{GoW]UnO> Just trying to spam your forum with PM's
{23:10] {{GoW]Panzer32> chat log posted
{23:11] {alva_busy> good, we could use more spam???
{23:11] * alva_busy shakes head
{23:11] {alva_busy> Ok, that's it?
{23:12] {{GoW]UnO> yep, let's all get some sleep.
{23:12] {nye> g'night
{23:12] {alva_busy> it's 7 am here, time to go to bed
{23:12] {{GoW]UnO> or, for HE, get back to work?
{23:12] {{GoW]UnO> Or is it the weekend there?
{23:12] {{GoW]jdd2007> good night all
{23:12] {alva_busy> nighty night
{23:12] {{GoW]jdd2007> see ya later
{23:12] * {GoW]jdd2007 has left #GoW_CoFA
{23:12] * alva_busy has quit IRC (Quit: )
{23:14] * {GoW]UnO has left #GoW_CoFA
{23:19] * {GoW]Panzer32 has quit IRC (Quit: )
Session Close: Fri Jun 13 23:25:38 2003

[zeit]

From UnO:

Honorable zeit,

It was a shame that I could not speak with you personally.

However, it was a productive chat I feel. There is much for both teams to digest, and I espect that you and I are going to be quite busy in the weeks to come.

Please express my gratitude once again to the members of your team. I truly enjoyed the chat, difficult as it was at times, and hope that we will make it a regular occurance to a mutual benefit to both our teams.

respectfully
UnOrthOdOx
Vice CALF and Ambassador to Gathering Storm

Reply:

Honorable zeit,

It was a shame that I could not speak with you personally.

However, it was a productive chat I feel. There is much for both teams to digest, and I espect that you and I are going to be quite busy in the weeks to come.

Please express my gratitude once again to the members of your team. I truly enjoyed the chat, difficult as it was at times, and hope that we will make it a regular occurance to a mutual benefit to both our teams.

respectfully
UnOrthOdOx
Vice CALF and Ambassador to Gathering Storm

[zeit]

about our Eng. scheme:

Honorable UnOrthOdOx.

I hope all is fine in the lands of the Glory of War.

In an effort to solve the problem of the loss you and other teams will suffer from in the event of a Voxian demise, I have come up with an Idea to provide you with Engineering, without relying on Vox.

We were informed by ND that they are working on Engineering, and would acquire approximately when Vox plans to. ND expressed their willingness to sell us the tech, and hence the following idea, this was not discussed with ND yet, but a PM was also sent to them regarding this

This includes ND selling the tech for a very low price, to compensate the loss of gold resulting from any downpayment Vox has recieved from you. GoW would have to back down from the deal with Vox, but you have already expressed interest in getting the tech from us, so I don't see this as a big problem.

We were thinking that insuring a source for Eng. for everyone interested, would reduce the foreign interest in Vox's prolonged survival, except for weakening the GS, of course.

I hope you can see the possible benefits you can have from this: a safe source for a tech you are now not so sure you could have, this will also allow you more freedom in dealing with us in the future, or as GF would have said: "take less heat".

Please tell me if you are interested, and if you think this could work with the other teams.

Cordially
Zeit, Ambassador to the Glory of War.

[zeit]

from UnO, re: trades and NAP:

Honorable zeit,

Forgive me for not attending to this earlier. As you may have guessed GoW is having some minor problems internally that needed my attention first.

Just to let you guys know, it seems that there were some things said in the poly chat room towards some members of our team and it was not taken well due to the public nature as much as what was said. In all honesty, I foresaw this comming some time ago, frankly, based upon the psychology of the members that were involved. Everything should be fine shortly, I believe.

Ok, on to the important stuff, eh?

We left off several items that were on the agenda for the chat in the interest of speeding that along as well as for each team to come to a concensus.

First and foremost, it seems that our employer is going to cancel the contract that was signed in order for us to assist Vox. There was discussion in the chat of the possibility of a Non Aggression Pact between GoW and Gathering Storm.

We can set it up for X # of turns, and it will allow GS to focus on building the infrastructure that they have missed out by spending their GA in warfare without fear of anyone landing any time soon without warning. No other nation would have access to GS without GoW being able to see them until after galleys (without risk, that is)

Please take this to your team and see if it is at all a possibility and we can hammer out the length and any other terms later.

Second is the trading of maps. We are quite proud with our mapping and have been leading the way in that field and attempting to map the coast of Legoland. Is this still something GS is interested in? I feel that GoW would be willing to make a straight trade no problem, but that is not official at the moment.

Third is the possible trading of Wine, Furs, Incense, and Iron. We momentarily have Iron right now, but that will dissolve should hostilities break out on Bob. What we need to know is what you are willing to give for Wine and what you want in return for Furs, Incense, and Iron. Each.

Sorry for the short and formal wording of this, but I am a bit pressed for time.

Until later
UnOrthOdOx
Vice CALF and Ambassador to Gathering Storm

a reply:

Dear UnOrthOdOx.

I hope all went well on your extended weekend trip.

The cancellation of your contract against us is met with a great sigh of relief, followed by a sincere smile. This times might be good times after all

I was waiting for your arrival, so that we could discuss the two later issue you have presented, but you have beaten me to it.

I cannot reply with a formal proposal on each, but I can assure you a trade can be arranged on each of the commodities you have mentioned (the Luxuries, Iron and the Maps).
A map for map trade could probably work, but I can't guarantee that yet.
As for the Luxuries: Wine for X and gpt (or lump sum) for the other Luxury would be possible. As for the Iron, I would probably say this will be payed with gold, although the exact nature of the contract will have to be further discussed. Also: perhaps gold payment on your hand could be transferred into a future discount on Chivalry.

Lastly, the NAP issue: we are currently debating that amidst ourselves, as you realize this is a quite "heavy" issue. I suggest we resolve the issues of trade first, and then consider the prospect of a NAP.

Looking forward to do business with you.

Zeit, Ambassador to the Gathering Storm.

[zeit]

the note about the NDA:

Zeit,

Apologies, again. Seems we are both short of time today.

We were wondering if it would be possible to add a no-trade clause to our deal for Chivalry? We are of course attempting a world wide release, but just in case all deals are not finalized, we are asking this of all teams.

UnOrthOdOx
Vice CALF and Ambassador to Gathering Storm.

[zeit]

From UnO:

Honorable zeit,

I am sorry to be speaking to you in such a rush, but my time is short.

Panzer apparantly had a chat with Shiber this afternoon and there was some confusion expressed reguarding the upcomming deals. Shiber aparantly had the impression that we were offering Chivalry for free in exchange for incense and Iron along with a no-trade clause.

Just to be sure we are all together, the offers as stands are:



Chivalry: GS agrees to pay 200 Gold. GoW is asking what it would take to add a 10 turn No Trade Clause to this.


Wines For Furs: Straight up trade(already agreed to?)


Map for Map: Straight up trade (already agreed to?)


Incense and Iron: GoW will evaluate each as the need arises.


Non Agression Pact: GoW is asking what it would take to sign one for 20, 30, 40, and 50 turns. Also asking for a clarification of GS stance of breaking deals, ie is breaking a lux trade against your code of honor?


Hope this clears whatever confusion has arised, and hope to hear from you soon on these points.

UnOrthOdOx
Ambassador to GS

My reply:

Dear UnOrthOdOx,

I'm very sorry for the misunderstanding among our ranks, which was partially due to my fault. I believe Shiber has already sent an apology for Panzer. As for the details of the trade- the GS agrees to these terms. However, let me remind you that "when the need arises" as you have stated, the price of Iron and a second Luxury could be more than 200 gold that we will be paying now for the tech.

The GS is willing to send you a supply of these two commodities, the Luxuries can be sent right away, and the Iron when your current contract ends, for any given reason.

Like I said, the choice is yours- we can pay those 200 gold when the tech is due, or we can agree to the arrangement I proposed.

As for breaking any deals, of which Luxury trades are no different- this is strictly against our code of conduct. Of course, in case of war, the agressor will be considered as the treaty violator, but unfortunately (or not... ) as we all know, moral justice in times of war is a disputed and vague matter at best. I can assure you, though, that the GS has no intention of breaking our trading agreements.

About NAP- for the time being, our team has decided against it as a general policy. I'll be most glad to elaborate on our considerations and reasoning in my next message.

Waiting to hear from you soon.

Zeit, Ambassador to the Glory of War.