GL revisited

[nbarclay]

We'd need to figure out what we're willing to offer Vox in return (and how "stupid" Vox would be depends on how good a deal we're willing to offer). I won't have time to do such a deal justice until the weekend, and with DeepO currently inclined to hold off starting the project for another settler (if I understand correctly), there's not a huge amount of urgency. (Holding it off for another settler makes good sense from an EotS shield usage perspective, since we'd waste shields building workers now, but if I've calculated correctly, we'd get a settler at 31 shields and then end up a good size for 2-turn workers.)

[Arrian]

Good, I like that idea: we build another settler (gold hill, baby!) and that gives us time to make sure we want to do this thing, and if so, to work something out with Vox.

I agree, Nathan, that "stupidity" depends on what they get out of the deal.

-Arrian

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Arrian

I agree, Nathan, that "stupidity" depends on what they get out of the deal.

Just to take that a step farther, how much they get out of the deal would also determine how stupid it would be for them to spoil the deal by attacking us. Political stability can be at least as important to avoiding wars as military deterrence.

[nbarclay]

Is there anyone who's still gung ho about the idea of building workers to add to Hurricane for a Great Library bid before we build at least one more settler? If not, there's no need to rush with an official poll.

[Dominae]

I think we should do this poll all over again.


Dominae

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Dominae
I think we should do this poll all over again.

I think the question is more one of when to do another, official poll than of if. Unless we want to switch EotS over to workers before building another settler, we have at least five turns before the next major decision point. Having EotS produce at least one worker after the settler it's working on makes sense no matter what, so the real limiting factor is that if we focus on units, five turns after the barracks, Hurricane would build a spearman (and hence be set back 1/20 of the cost of the Great Library if we decide to go for it). That gives time for a bit more discussion before the repoll.

[DeepO]

Well, I think the settler first in EotS is best, to settle the gold. It will in the near future provide another barracks city.

As to what to build in Hurricane: I certainly would go for the GL immediately, not after another spear. So a decision needs to be made in 5 turns time... this should be alright.

Dominae,
I was certainly not planning on waiting to build the GL until after republic, there is no way we could have a shot at it then. By the time we could reach the republic, we can have the GL too, so certainly is it worth it to get these from the GL, certainly as it is a high-priced tech.

DeepO

[nbarclay]

If we knew with 100% certainty that we'd win the race for the Great Library, holding up Republic would make a lot of sense. But we'd paint ourselves into a corner if we aren't hard at work toward Republic and Sir Ralph's fear of missing the Great Library comes to pass.

[DeepO]

true, but in some way, we need to get to literature in 40 turns. And if we beeline for the republic, there is no way we can do research literature ourselves...

I was thinking in getting RPG in the deal: if either of us researches MM and gets to the other, we could trade literature from them. They will try to build the GL, so literature is high on their list... maybe they can trade it with us.

DeepO

[edit: corrected yet another name-swap... I'm terribly bad in this kind of thing ]

[Arrian]

If we're going for the GL (seems that people are leaning that way), then we need to research lit ourselves. That's not something I'm willing to leave to trading.

Plus, though it's an investment, building a library in EotS after we get 1-2 more settlers out could boost our research. That's something to discuss once we're getting close to discovering lit, though.

-Arrian

[nbarclay]

I thought about building the Great Library in EotS, but paradoxically, Hurricane is in a much better position to do it quickly. Once EotS would reach size 7, the fastest it could possibly grow is four turns (six turns to go from 7 to 8), and then only by working three flood plains tiles that give only food and no production. But cranking out workers to add to another city, EotS avoids the penalty to its own growth rate that comes with a larger size, and the other city (Hurricane) can work tiles that bring its own growth to a complete halt in favor of higher production. So not only do we get EotS back as a settler pump in about a dozen turns, but we get a higher-production Great Library city.

[nbarclay]

I just came up with an idea that I posted in the turn thread that could help our defenses just a little going for the Great Library. The catch is, it requires a different move on our upcoming turn!

[nbarclay]

I just had a thought regarding competition for the Great Library. As I've discovered in my own thoughts and analysis regarding the idea, adding workers to boost production isn't quite as easy as it appears at first glance. Not only do you have to build the workers to add, but either they or other workers have to improve tiles in order to get full advantage out of the added workers. That slows us down a bit, but it could be even more awkward for civs that can't produce workers as quickly as EotS can.

Nathan

[Arrian]

I had a professor in Scotland (Univ St. Andrews) who had a saying: The Romans were thorough!

Nathan is thorough!

Btw, check your PMs again. I'm off to bed.

-Arrian

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by DeepO
Well, I think the settler first in EotS is best, to settle the gold. It will in the near future provide another barracks city.

If we want a barracks city, #4 would be a better site. The gold hill site would require working mined hills to offset flood plains, and under Despotism, that would destroy its growth advantage, consume more worker turns building improvements, and ultimately not provide as good a production as #4 could get.

I'm still inclined to favor the gold hill site, though, at least assuming we have everything squared away with Vox. It would produce a lot more wealth (not entirely useless for defense), and it should be able to crank out workers every five turns at size 3 once the proper tile improvements are in place. Those extra workers, in turn, would leave EotS and later Cyclone able to focus a bit more on building settlers.

Nathan