DIPLO: comments on Rollplay log

[Theseus]

Arnelos,

I have a number of shots to send you, wrapped up in a Zip file. Who should get them, and at what email addresses.

Also...

/me shuffles around

We had a *slight* miscommunication, and did not realize you expected us to gift Toledo and NM back immediately.

To be honest, that would have been a hard sell within GS, being somewhat exploitish. We gifted you two cities in N. Stormia, and can / will gift back T and NM next turn.

I agree that we need to coordinate better... for instance, being the warmonger that I am ( ), I should have advised you to get those Pikes to Pamplona earlier. We are not 'micromanaging' the wars, and we should be!

Best of luck at Pamplona in the coming turn.

T/R

[Theseus]

Arrian, was that message from BF *****ing about no contact on 10/30-31? If so, his PM box was full.

Even when hard-pressed for time, I am pretty good about checking PMs and at least providing a short response out of courtesy.

[Arrian]

Yeah. I was just erring on the side of caution/courtesy. I typed my response before I came to the forum.

I was just trying to smooth BF's feathers. No offense to anyone here was meant.

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

Speaking of courtesy to RP, we should give them a reply to the 'plan' outlined by Aidun on the RP contact thread.

It is not very good plan, by the look of it. GoW will persuade Lego that RP 'treaties' are worth little and of course it flies in the face of our own attempts at improving our position.

We should not ignore them however. I will PM Aidun just to confirm that their proposal has been seen in our forum, and that we will reply soon - nothing else.

Later, we should send a polite reply, where we can start trying to nudge their expectations towards a more realistic position with regards to how much GS can do for them.

[Cort Haus]

Hang on a minute ...

from Aidun, in the contact thread:

We do also not want to give up Pamplona and generally consider the proposal of Aggie to let us maintain everything we now have except Pamplona an unfair proposal and we will not accept it under whatever condition.

What's this? GoW offering peace to RP where RP keep everything except Pamplona? Not exactly expelling them from the continent is it?


He also says

The opinion our team is generally that we do not want to make any deal with GoW because we do not trust them to keep it. The whole idea of the contract is in our view just another attempt of GoW to fool us and to get an avantage out of our naivity to make deals with them.

Doubt is being cast on the authenticity of this contract. If GoW is offering peace with RP holding most of what they have then we are looking at a substantially different position from the one that GoW have been presenting in our negotiations.

Aidun finishes with :

If peace would be established, which is in my view, not the right strategy now with this new strategy to breach the ND-GoW-Lego alliance in parts, we want to own AT LEAST our ownings and nothing less. We know that ND greatly desires Pamplona Valley from the very moment that we inhabited it, but they wont get it without a fight.

We don't want Pamplona to fall either, but we need to say politely remind RP that they appear to be making some fairly substantial demands - that they won't make peace with GoW until they have preferably enlarged their holdings on Bob. Methinks the tail is trying to wag the dog here.

Perhaps we should say :

(draft missive to RP: )

Dear Roleplay,

There's a consensus in GS that the status quo and continuation of this war is not the way to go if we are to avoid eventual defeat. There is also a very strong desire and commitment to keep RP in the game so that they might enjoy it to its conclusion as a friend and ally of GS. If Spain cannot be held, we are even prepared to offer you our own soil under our protection.

However much RP members would like to fight GoW for the rest of the game, or until GoW give RP Spain back, this approach may not be able to be reconciled with GS's abillity to offer protection. In short, we do not wish to forever continue a fight which will cost us the game. Unfortunately we see no reason that GS will ever get any joy out of Lego, and fear that the proposed 'fake treaty' won't change anything except to further damage what's left of our reputation.

So, it is not inconceivable that there is some set of circumstances whereby GS could make peace with GoW in a deal which ultimately would see RP survive and living in Spain. However, a precondition of such an arrangement would require both GoW and RP to drop their grudges against each other and continue to live in peace.

If RP will never make peace with GoW then we have a problem. Many GS members hate and/or distrust GoW, but have no wish to destroy ourselves fighting them indefinitely - just to let ND and Lego decide amongst themselves who wins the game. We cannot protect you from GoW if you are still intent on killing them after a hypothetical peace.

Had the war gone better, things would look better for our alliance, but it has gone badly, and we have to salvage what we can and draw a line under the past or ultimately fail.

We have reason to believe it probable that GoW would drop its hostility and desire to exterminate RP if RP would reciprocally drop its hostility and desire to exterminate GoW.

Finally, could you possibly furnish us with further info (what and when) on any recent GoW peace offerings? If they offered you what you have minus Pamp, then they are prepared to offer more than we were aware.

Regards etc

Comments please ...

[Cort Haus]

Alternative draft to RP:

You have about seven Pikes, three Knights and are facing maybe forty to fifty 3-movers. You live by our say-so alone. With what precisely are you backing up your demand to enlarge your existing holdings prior to making peace with GoW?

[Theseus]

Go with the second one.




j/k.

I smell saltpeter.

A good response, CH, but could you dress it up with some roleplaying? Pope Calixtus I and all that jazz.

[Cort Haus]

Oh dear. I don't even know who Pope Calixtus is, let alone the right terminology to kiss his pinky ring.

Still, here goes ...

To our dearest friends, the favoured jewels of God's Earth, blessed and pious children of venerable and wise Calixtus.

There's a consensus here among your loyal and noble allies in GS that the status quo and continuation of this war is not the way to go if we are to avoid eventual defeat. There is also a very strong desire and commitment to keep your great nation in this mortal coil so that they might enjoy it to its conclusion as a friend and ally of the Gathering Storm nation. If your holy and beloved Spain cannot be held from the combined might of the Infidel, we are even prepared to offer you dwelling on our own humble soil under our protection.

However much your brave and fearless Knights of the Cross would like to fight GoW until the end of all days, or until they return Spain to its people, this approach may not be able to be reconciled with our abillity to offer protection. In short, we do not wish to forever continue a fight which will cost us the Holy Grail we all seek. Unfortunately we yet see no glimmer of light within the corrupt darkness of Lego, and fear that the proposed 'fake treaty' will do little to affect the balance of forces and alliances in the world except to further damage what's left of Gathering Storm's unfairly maligned reputation.

So, it is not inconceivable that there is some set of circumstances whereby our envoys could make peace with the Riders of the Night in a deal which ultimately would see the blessed Children of his Holiness survive and living on in Spain as we all wish. However, a precondition of such an arrangement would require both GoW and RP to drop their historical grudges against each other and continue to live in peace.

If your bold Knights will never make peace with GoW then we have a problem. Many GS members distrust GoW, but have no wish to destroy ourselves fighting them indefinitely - just to let ND and Lego decide amongst themselves who seizes the Holy Grail at the end of time. We cannot protect you from GoW if you are still intent on harming them after a hypothetical peace.

The war has not gone well, though we are pleased and honoured that your brave nation has survived, and we have to salvage what we can and draw a line under the past or ultimately fail.

We have reason to believe it probable that GoW would drop its hostility and desire to exterminate RP if RP would reciprocally drop its hostility and desire to exterminate GoW.

Finally, could you possibly furnish us with further information on any recent GoW peace offerings? If they offered you your current holdings minus Pamplona, then they are perhaps prepared to offer more than we were hitherto aware.

May the sun continue to shine on his Holiness and his loyal servants,

etc

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Theseus
I smell saltpeter.

What, at Pamplona?

If so our Knights just have to stand there looking mean to deter the enemy from committing to what they might not be able to defend.

Maybe the SP's at the Alamo, and they want Pamp as a buffer zone.

[Theseus]

CH, that is EXCELLENT!!

(now we gotta get GoW to talk this flowery stuff... actually, they have UnO, so it should be doable )

[Cort Haus]

PM'd to Togas and Arnelos.

(copy in log)

[Cort Haus]

In Togas's reply he says

I will do what I can to deal with my nation's hatred for GoW.

Hopefully we'll be needing him to do this and more.

[Cort Haus]

RP not replying ...

I've now sent 8 (eight) PM's to RP (togas & bigfree) since their last reply.

If anyone knows anyone in RP outside of this game - could you PM them and say "hey, you still there?".

Sleepy, do you know anyone in RP? You worked the magic pretty quickly with Vox ...

[asleepathewheel]

Re: RP not replying ...

Originally posted by Cort Haus
I've now sent 8 (eight) PM's to RP (togas & bigfree) since their last reply.

If anyone knows anyone in RP outside of this game - could you PM them and say "hey, you still there?".

Sleepy, do you know anyone in RP? You worked the magic pretty quickly with Vox ...

sheesh, what's up with those guys. Togas plays the turns and posts... Perhaps you should post a message on the main forum telling him to check his pm's. I have no clue who else is active over there, they have 35 alleged members, but I doubt more than 15 have been active.

I would try arnelos, he's at least very active in the ISDG, so he at least probably checks his pms. I'll drop him a line.

[asleepathewheel]

Ok, I've fired off a PM to arnelos, hopefully he will get it.

CH, you know that there is PM tracking? You can see if the person has read it yet, perhaps you could do that?