DIPLO: Neu Demogyptica - comments

[zeit]

The message is very good, definitely conveys the message. Let's them realize what it is they are doing that might upset us, but we're doing it without patronizing and with a honest approach.

[vulture]

Has that message been sent yet, or is everyone hanging around getting excited about PtWDGII and waiting to see if this game is going to be able to continue? With the break, it might be a good time to get some diplo movement going without holding up the game.

[FrustratedPoet]

I think everyone is hesitant about putting any time into a game that might be dead.

[Shiber]

I recommend that we send the message that we composed now, and add a sentence or two saying that with the recent pause in the game (which apparently will soon be back in action), we hope that they had enough time to sort out their internal affairs (I'm pretty sure this is not the case, as either they've dropped discussions when the game stopped or they've been stalling us with excuses; but I'd mention this anyway).

[Shiber]

The game will be back pretty soon. Trip says he's almost done reconstructing the game in the form of a scenario, and hopefully it won't crash this time.
What are we waiting for? Let's send the message to ND.

[Shiber]

Trip is done reconstructing the game. It should resume in a matter of days (once the minor differences between the reconstruction and the original are resolved or all the teams agree to ignore them), perhaps even sooner.
Are we going to send the message to ND?

[nbarclay]

I'll get it sent sometime tomorrow; I'll want to do some last-minute proofreading and rewording that I don't have time for right now. In the meantime, if anyone has any more suggestions...

[nbarclay]

I ended up being a bit slower than I'd planned - Beta's being away made it a bit less urgent and my mind wasn't all that interested in going into "writing mode" if it didn't have to - but I just sent out a slightly revised version of my message.

[Shiber]

Nathan, could you post the message that you sent to ND on the logs thread? Just for the sake of proper logging.

[vulture]

Shiber, he already did...

[Shiber]

Of course, I missed it. Thanks.

[Shiber]

Have we received any kind of response from ND yet?
Was the message sent via Apolyton PM or also via email?

[vulture]

Having just seen the response from ND, my reaction was "Huh?"

They don't want to buy feudalism, but do want to pay the money to establish an embassy (88 gold they say - can we do it cheaper (since they are smaller) and offer them a saving if they send us the money to build an embassy with them? Or do they want to see out capital?) and have an alliance vs RP, who are alleged to be talking about atacking us.

1) RP may talk about attacking us, but seriously, how are they going to do it? Can they defend their borders from an ND/GoW invasion whilst still having enough galleys and troops to sail around the coast, past Vox and down to us? In the absence of about 10 galleys full, what can they do? What are their best units at the moment?

2) Are ND offering an alliance now, or one in case RP decide to attack us? An alliance now looks like a daft thing to offer, since we won't be sparing many troops from the fight with Vox. An alliance in case RP attacks us is presumably a ploy to get them into the war 'honourably', rather than looking like scheming opportunists - otherwise, why would they need an alliance (or is it to keep us involved without backing out to early).

3) Do we want them seeing our capital and its location? Or is that info already in the public domain? Has anyone built any embassies yet?

4) Is the promise of an alliance in case RP does attack sufficient recompense for not getting cash for Feudalism? My suspicion is that they'd take advantage of the situation anyway, so it isn't necessary.

[Aeson]

We should be able to establish an embassy for much cheaper. Of course then they don't get to see EotS, and won't know it's up to 30 shields per turn, and we get to see what they are focusing on. It would probably be better for us to split the cost. Should be 15-20g each from our end.

RP probably can't land anything more than a token offense (like GoW's) in the next 10 turns or so. They don't have many coastal cities, and can't have many galleys. Maybe 3-4 at this point (they would be vets though).

An alliance with ND would be very nice, but in 15-20 turns, not now (unless RP does attack us somehow).

[Shiber]

I'm pissed off at ND. What are they thinking? How are they running their team? The president has been missing for more than a weekend and they haven't (at least temporarily) replaced him, and now they're telling us that they won't be paying at all? And "they have no idea how this happened"?

I suggest telling them that this cost us dearly, since we were expecting those 200 gold for helping us in the war with Vox ever since we completed Feudalism, and frankly we've been going crazy trying to figure out what is up with them. Therefore, we should demand, according to my suggestion, no less than 100 gold as compensation, of which some will be used to establish an embassy with ND, and the rest we will keep.

I don't mind if ND sees our capital. Vox will probably "whore" (I hope noone has any problems with this term for selling around maps or tech) their maps at some point, if they haven't done so already, so the map of our capital already has, or will, become public domain IMHO.