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  • #76
    I actually don't think that post is tough enough. If ND buys Feudalism from GoW (or from someone GoW sells it to, etc.), that would be a huge slap in our faces because both our decision to research Feudalism at as fast a pace as we did and the price we decided to charge to GoW were based on the understanding that we also had a second sale lined up to Neu Demogyptica. We can understand the awkward situation they were placed in by having an agreement made on behalf of their team without going through proper procedures, but if they take advantage of their own team's mistake to get Feudalism at a bargain basement price while we are stuck with reimbursment for only a small fraction of our research costs, that cannot help but have a significant negative impact on our ability to view Neu Demogyptica as a reliable trading partner.

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    • #77
      Nathan, we still need to try to get a deal going, instead of scaring them away permanently... we can't get too tough either. But you're right on how things have gone for us, we're seriously losing money on Feudalism.

      DeepO

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      • #78
        re: feudalism

        I think we might need to rethink our research strategy. GoW and the others have abused us this time,

        I imagine the deal was something like:

        We research feudalism
        GoW buys feudalism from us
        WE try to sell to others but none buy
        Other civs research Theology and Engineering
        GoW researches Chivalry
        10 turns, NDA expires, GoW trades/Gives feudal to others, they give their techs when they gain them.

        result: tech monopoly that we are shut out of. We get hosed.

        As long as the world is at peace, this happens. once war breaks out on BoB, then it will change. Until then, I would advocate not selling our techs to others, or else we will face this situation again and again.Trade tech for tech or for large gold, but we can't afford to get screwed like this much more.

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        • #79
          Just had a crazy idea... would anyone go for the GLib? we could build it in 12 turns or so... netting us exactly all those nice techs they want to keep out of our hands...

          only the idea makes me smile

          DeepO

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          • #80
            Originally posted by DeepO
            Just had a crazy idea... would anyone go for the GLib? we could build it in 12 turns or so... netting us exactly all those nice techs they want to keep out of our hands...

            only the idea makes me smile

            DeepO



            GoW is currently building it, but I think 12 turns would probably beat them. not a bad idea. not a great idea, but not a bad one. certainly an interesting twist in the game

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            • #81
              We could use the culture , hey, why do thing the easy way and build mere temples, while we can have all these grand projects to adorn the magnif eugh, gonna stop here
              Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?
              Then why call him God? - Epicurus

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              • #82
                That would be interesting. We could shoot for a culture victory. They wouldn't be expecting that. Fortress (whatever we call this island) no one gets in or out. win via culture. highly unlikely

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                • #83
                  Well, the advantage would be that no other team could share their research. GoW can't give Chivalry to ND, Lego can't give their Theo to anyone, etc. It would pacify Bob, or quite on the contrary, make wars even more likely as only one team wants to have Chivalry.

                  Of course, it would put a bigger bullseye on our behinds then now even, but we could try some nifty diplomatic tricks to keep friends: e.g. offering GoW 200 gold for Chivalry, even if we would receive it for free, but only if they agree not to sell it to others for 5 turns. And we could agree to 10 turns NDAs too, with all our friends

                  Interesting thought, to say the least...

                  BTW, I'm not that sure GoW is going for the library, and they certainly can't beat us. They're building it in a size 6(?) city, without GA. It would take us 14 turns in one of our 30 shield cities, maybe 15 because we would get right outside of our GA. By that time, most of the techs we're searching for will be already distributed, so we know if they want to shut us out.

                  DeepO

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                  • #84
                    Is there anyway to figure out how long they have been building the library (of course they could have masked the first however many turns building the palace, or is it in their capital?)

                    And its likely that GoW will hit their GA in 10? turns maybe,so who knows....

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                    • #85
                      It is in their capital... I'm not certain if we have posted it somewhere, but by going back through the saves, we should be able to pinpoint precisely when it would finish.

                      DeepO

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                      • #86
                        GoW's capitol is still quite productive. They have Wine hills which are good production without sacrificing food, and have been working on their project for a while now. I'd think the Great Wall would be a better build for them, but they were probably going for Sun Tzu's.

                        With Researching Chivalry themselves, which they can probably trade for Theology/Engineering, the Great Library would probably only pay off 1 tech.

                        --------------

                        If we went for a Wonder, I think the Collosus in Hurricane would be the one to try. If we get beaten to it, it becomes the Great Library, and then later switch it to Leo's most likely.

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                        • #87
                          I've drafted a message that I could send to ND on the team's behalf if people like it.

                          Greetings mav_son and people of Neu Demogyptica,

                          We of Gathering Storm can understand the awkward position you found yourselves in when DareKill agreed to a deal to purchase Feudalism from us without going through your team's proper procedures. But we ask you to consider our situation as well, and how your actions are affecting us.

                          Choosing what technologies to research and how much to invest in research are always difficult choices in Civilization, and all the more so in multi-player games. Similarly, deciding the price and terms of sale to other teams can also be rather complex. When we set our asking price and terms for Feudalism, we did so based on the expectation that we would be able to sell it, at the very least, both to you and to Glory of War. That would still have left us bearing more of the research cost than either of your teams, but we had some hopes that we might be able to arrange additional deals with others. And even if we could not arrange other deals (which has turned out to be the case thus far), the difference in costs would not be so great as to hurt us terribly.

                          You could, legally speaking, purchase Feudalism from Glory of War (or from a direct or indirect customer of theirs) after their commitment not to sell or trade it ends. But if you do so, you place us in a position of having paid hundreds more gold than any other team for that technology. Worse, your team would be profiting at our expense from our having been led to believe we could expect you as a second customer. Such a situation would have to make us more wary in any future business deals with Neu Demogyptica. Conversely, if you follow through with the purchase on the terms DareKill agreed to in spite of the procedural errors involved, it will send a clear message that Neu Demogyptica wants to deal honorably with its neighbors.

                          I would also note that one of the worst parts of the current situation for us is the waiting, not knowing whether or when we will ever get the gold we had expected from you for Feudalism. Imagine yourselves at war, needing gold for upgrades and rush buying, and not knowing for several turns when or whether you will get 200 gold that you had been led to expect. Think about how you would feel and you probably have a pretty good idea of how we are feeling at present.

                          We of Gathering Storm value the good relations that we have had with Neu Demogyptica, and we hope to do further business in the future no matter what you decide. But business will be much simpler and more straightforward if we do not have to get ironclad guarantees far in advance to ensure that the current situation will not be repeated. Indeed, if trades involving Feudalism set a precedent whereby researchers find it impossible to recover more than a small fraction of their costs, we may find ourselves living in a world where nations are reluctant to do any research at all. In any case, we would appreciate it if you could tell us whether you plan to buy Feudalism from us as quickly as you can.

                          Sincerely,

                          The People of Gathering Storm
                          Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist

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                          • #88
                            good message Nathan. Very forceful. we need to tell these guys we aren't going to tolerate this any longer. good job

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                            • #89
                              hmm, very impressed
                              Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?
                              Then why call him God? - Epicurus

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                              • #90


                                That ought to get their attention.

                                -Arrian
                                grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                                The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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