Turn 27

[nbarclay]

Sounds okay.

If you're willing to take the time, it might be useful if you would check the number of turns (probably at relatively low slider settings) for all the techs that we could research and Vox has the prerequisites for. Any discrepancies in tech costs might provide a clue if Vox has any other techs that we don't.

Nathan

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
The worker switch in Hurricane was not urgent yet, and in such cases I tend to do it in the last possible turn. Who knows, if we'll have to change our plan. I wouldn't have forgotten it, in no case. It wouldn't have hurt us to leave the laborer in the forest, but if you insist, ok, fine with me.

In the unlikely event that EotS catches disease, we might want Hurricane to switch to an irrigated fur while EotS focuses on flood plains to grow back. In the absence of any other difference, we may as well do what might be best if we get really unlucky. (Not that I've tested whether that's what we'd want to do.)

Nathan

[Harovan]

Originally posted by nbarclay
If you're willing to take the time, it might be useful if you would check the number of turns (probably at relatively low slider settings) for all the techs that we could research and Vox has the prerequisites for. Any discrepancies in tech costs might provide a clue if Vox has any other techs that we don't.

Alphabet costs at most 120.
Warrior code costs at most 72. VC probably has it.

That and BW was all I can check (We have the prerequisite for).

[Harovan]

Turn made and will be sent in a couple of minutes. 4 screenies today: zoom, f11, power and EotS as special candy.

[nbarclay]

Actually, we have the prerequisites for Mysticism also.

Warrior Code and Bronze Working are both cost 3, so if Bronze Working is 64 and Warrior Code is 72, that indicates that Vox does not have Warrior Code. Alphaabet is cost 5, so 120 is consistent with Vox not having that either. So they don't seem to be cleaning up on tech trades thus far.

Nathan

[Harovan]

You are right. Mysticism costs at most 96. VC hasn't got it either, I suppose.

[Harovan]

Turn sent, time for the diplomatic note. Screenies soon. Good night again.

[nbarclay]

Trade message sent to BetaHound, Eli, Dissident, and Jon Miller. With enough luck (and it may take a lot) one of them will get it quickly. I'll post the final text of the message (with a paragraph about the urgency of the situation added since the original draft) in the diplomatic office thread.

Nathan

[alva]

Something we have overlooked in all these discussions!

If (and I do mean IF) Vox has met someone, wouldn't we meet them eventually anyway (they would be doing some exploring too, wouldn't they?!).
They should appear somewhere around neck pretty soon, don't you think?
(unless made some agreement not to travel this way, not really likely, is it..?)

[alva]

Trade message sent to BetaHound, Eli, Dissident, and Jon Miller.

This should be last message/proposal we send, at least for awhile.
It's starting to look like we are beggin, al they have to do is wait and we're their with another one...

Let them come to us next time.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by alva
Something we have overlooked in all these discussions!

If (and I do mean IF) Vox has met someone, wouldn't we meet them eventually anyway (they would be doing some exploring too, wouldn't they?!).
They should appear somewhere around neck pretty soon, don't you think?
(unless made some agreement not to travel this way, not really likely, is it..?)

No, Alva, this was not really overlooked. There was some discussion on how it was possible that Vox could leave both its cities undefended, when another Civ has to be close by. Further, if there is another Isthmus on the other side, how come they are not defending it, instead only focusing on us.

I see 2 possibilities for this:
- they have made a 'no trespassing' agreement, and feel very secure in leaving their cities undefended.
- they actually met over the seas, at a point where there is only a one tile sea inbetween two continents, with Vox (and us) on one side, and Civ X on the other.

In both cases, we should not expect that Civ X will appear on our borders soon, also not on the back of the Isthmus.

DeepO

[Harovan]

They haven't met anyone. Or if they did, they haven't traded advances. The analysis of beakers needed for research has shown, that they aren't more advanced than we.

They have:
- Bronze Working (start tech)
- Masonry (start tech - we have it too)
- Ceremonial Burial (researched or from a hut - we have it too)
- possibly Iron Working (no prove for this, they may still be researching)

They have not:
- Alphabet
- The Wheel (we have it)
- Pottery (we have it)
- Warrior Code
- Mysticism
- All other techs, because they have as prerequisite one of the 5 techs above

/EDIT: added Warrior Code to the "They have not" list. I had forgotten to mention it.

[Arrian]

Fascinating. Good analysis, Sir Ralph.

You know, it does make a helluva lot more sense that they started up on the northern coast of our continent, recognized that quickly, and sent all their warriors south...as opposed to meeting a civ, making a "no exploration agreement" and sending their guys south.

Plus, you may note that in response to the question of "have you met any other civs" their answer was "we've met one other civ, yes." Yeah, US!

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Hmmm... I don't know. Of course it could be so that they haven't met with anyone, but then without any doubt they wanted to deceive us when they said they met one other civ. I'm not certain they would want to do that... they must know we would find out rather fast.

I'm still thinking that they met someone over the sea, although I have to admit that those kind of situations are rather rare... I have not seen many 1-tile seas before. Or it should be between a continent and a tiny island.

Whatever is happening with Vox, I'd like to start collecting contact information with the other teams, so we have a better idea of who has met who.

DeepO

[Harovan]

I think they're just bluffing.

By the way, Nathan started the analysis of beakers, I was just making my conclusions. My theory is, that we currently need 24 beakers for each research point. We have "measured":

- Bronze Working (3 points, 64 beakers - devaluated!)
- Alphabet (5 points, 120 beakers)
- Warrior Code (3 points, 72 beakers)
- Mysticism (4 points, 96 beakers)

Note, all these numbers should be read "at most". In theory, the reduced price of BW should be 62, it was just not measurable.

We know for sure (from diplo screen), that they lack:
- The Wheel
- Pottery

We know for sure, that they have:
- Bronze Working
- Masonry

There's no space for an eventual tech trading they did.