Vox's point of view

[DeepO]

No, we can't post there. I wouldn't even invent a false strategy, the problem is that if we get into a discussion there, others might pick it up, and deduce that we and Vox have met. If this is not a problem anymore, we can of course all post there with our favorite strats, and see what the response of Eli would be.

DeepO

[FrustratedPoet]

Well, I posted something. It's just a bit of fun.

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by DeepO
Nathan, I agree with your points, but there are some counterpoints, and one thing you might have overlooked: Catapults. Lots of them. They can easily eat through our first defenders, leaving the WCs on top. After that, they can attack with archers, horsies or immortals (who will obviously be the best units, but trigger the GA), leaving the defenders under the safe protection of some fortified spears for as long as there are multiple units in our invasion force. Only the last unit they use is lost, but they aren't even forced to use it.

Doing so doesn't expose them to counter attacks, or even to stepped attacks (lure the enemy out with a few cheap units, then hit them with full force in a second wave they were unaware of). Also, archers will most likely be mere cannon fodder and also used like that, but both immortals and horsies will survive longer then normal if our forces are concentrated. Hence elites and leaders. Hence defender armies.

When flat terrain is available, WCs have to be attacked two tiles away from their target if you don't want them to reach the target. That means the forces that attack the WCs have to come out and play, and slow-movers end their turn outside the target after they attack. Catapults cost as much as WCs, so at the very least, every catapult that misses its bombard is a WC that gets through to counterattack. And consider the disaster if GS gets through and captures all those catapults! The entire preemptive attack strategy hinges on taking out a significant majority of the enemy's strike force before it can launch an attack, and catapults aren't the way for Vox to go with that approach.

As for GS using catapults, I'm skeptical. Every catapult GS builds costs a WC or spearman or two thirds of a swordsman, and I'm far from convinced that catapults would be worth as much in battle as the alternatives would. Your forty catapults could be forty WCs instead, and that's a truly enormous strike force for either defense or preemptive counterstrikes against attackers (not to metion using up over half the free unit support GS would have available).

[Arrian]

quote:

Originally posted by Eli
You're all talking about the AI, but what if the opponent is human?

We know what you're up to, young man.

DeepO may have a point, FP, regarding other teams figuring out that we've met. Perhaps you should edit that post?

-Arrian

[FrustratedPoet]

whatever.....

[DeepO]

You've got a point, Nathan... it's just that if we use 40 WCs to attack them, we'll lose over half of them if there are enough spears or immortals fortified (even more if they have catapults). Those forces are gone, where if we would attack with catapults, we would lose the occasional WC to a bad RNG #, but normally all of them would survive, and many of them can attack next turn instead of needing healing. At least with catapults we are sure that those same forces can be used throughout the entire war, instead of needing reinforcements. In the end, I believe this is a winning tactic...

Also, consider that we could have mulitple bombard turns, and only commit our real troops when they are sufficiently weakened. If we use WCs, and halfway through the attack we see we're not going to make it, we have to retreat, losing more then we have destroyed. With catapults you don't risk that...

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's the answer to everything, but I like to think of different things, and see if it might work. Those catapults are similar: I just want to throw the idea out there, and see what others may think of it.

Oh, Re: attacking on flat terrain: you're right, to a certain extent. If we put all of this force on attacking, and getting through (no counterattack possible), we would be better off coming from behind. Note that this same thing can be achieved with a roaded hill (or mountain, but there is only a hill next to the Isthmus), which could also serve as a surprise to a sudden catapult rush. Roading the hill, meanwhile protecting it might be something we'll eventually get to (depending on the situation at that time, of course. For all we know Vox will try a massive atack on us, we're the ones to lose most by it)

DeepO