Vox's point of view

[DeepO]

Originally posted by nbarclay
If I'm Vox, I recognize that a major early war with GS would cause enormous damage to both teams' global standings. Plus, I definitely don't want to blow my GA.

That's the whole point, I guess. We know we can't expect from our WCs to have such an advantage over them that we'll win, or at least we know that attacking will be less favourable as long as we can expand peacefully, and trade techs. But does Vox recognises this? We might need to more clearly state this in a diplomatic message to them.

Nathan, you're right in the windows of opportunity, especially #3. But that is going to be one tight window... as maybe Vox can get to pikemen first, but by the time they get some close to GS, we should have gotten it as well. They are scientific, does anyone know what tech they get when they set their research to Monotheism (was that the first in line towards education? Has anybody seen my manual? Oh well, you which I mean, the tech scientific civs get for free in the middle ages)? Do they get pikes automatically? If so, this is certainly a good option for them, by the time we would have catched up, they are knocking on our borders with pikes and immortals.

I don't especially like knights as Persia, the combination of pikes and immortals is nearly as good, and less costly (I think). Knights should be accompanied by pikes anyhow, which determine the movement rate of both...

DeepO

[Arrian]

Scientific civs get Monotheism as the free tech.

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Always? I thought that by setting research to the tech to you would get, you'd get something else. Normally, monotheism is a good one to get, but in this case, an other could be better...

DeepO

[Randolph]

You can definitely get the one you set it to. It always used to be monotheism, but for some reason I thought they made it random in a patch, but then again I get some weird ideas from time to time .

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by DeepO
Always? I thought that by setting research to the tech to you would get, you'd get something else. Normally, monotheism is a good one to get, but in this case, an other could be better...

I don't remember ever seeing an exception. (Not that I can positively vouch for stuff I've seen but don't remember. )

[nbarclay]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by DeepO

Nathan, you're right in the windows of opportunity, especially #3. But that is going to be one tight window... as maybe Vox can get to pikemen first, but by the time they get some close to GS, we should have gotten it as well. They are scientific, does anyone know what tech they get when they set their research to Monotheism (was that the first in line towards education? Has anybody seen my manual? Oh well, you which I mean, the tech scientific civs get for free in the middle ages)? Do they get pikes automatically? If so, this is certainly a good option for them, by the time we would have catched up, they are knocking on our borders with pikes and immortals.[QUOTE]

The key for #3 to work is for Vox to trade with someone GS can't. If all goes well "we" (as Vox, in keeping with the concept of this thread) have enough of a tech lead going into the middle ages that the window is a good bit wider than it would be with more even technology.

I don't especially like knights as Persia, the combination of pikes and immortals is nearly as good, and less costly (I think). Knights should be accompanied by pikes anyhow, which determine the movement rate of both...

For building from scratch, a combination of immortals and pikes gives more bang for the buck as long as you're under a government that can handle long wars. But horseman-to-knight upgrades could convert gold into additional attacking power (and power that could reach the front lines more quickly). Really, that would be more useful as an extention of window 3 (or a way to hit with more wallop at once by delaying window 3 a couple techs) than as a completely seperate strategy.

[DeepO]

Maybe we should post a thread on the strat forum, asking "If I would be playing the Persians, is there any way not to get Monotheism in PTW? And does this change if I'm not playing against the AI?"

DeepO

[DeepO]

True.. but the moment they discover mapmaking, we can expect GS to find a lot of contacts on their own. If they are isolated, it is therefore more likely that mapmaking gets higher on their agenda...

DeepO

[nbarclay]

Even if GS does go straight for mapmaking, they'll have a pretty big deficit to make up by the time they make contact. And if they do that, our immortals will have completely uncontested control of the mountains and jungles to their north.

[DeepO]

[Alternate reality RPG.]

Hi, I'm Eli. I'm a member of a great team, Vox, who has just run into another team GS consisting of a bunch of people who are known for precise calculations, efficient Civ-play, and their temper when it comes to Civ. Further, coincidence has it that a few of the members they refused ended up in our team, where they don't have a very active role, but I think GS thinks they'll hold grudges. I must admit, that reading some of their comments does create that image to me as well, but most of the time they'll leave general gameplay to us, the 3 more experienced PBEM players of our team.

I think, that with a little pushing, GS will come after us, no, I'm even thinking that once our two borders meet and possibly before that time GS will start a war on us. From experience, I know that wars can be good if you have other ways of getting techs, as it can mean additional territory. However, I also know that as long as you don't have those other sources for your techs, wars are a waste of time.

I see that GS is doing good, but unfortunately for them, and much to the pleasure of some of their rejected aspirant members, we ended up lucky in a strategical way. We have an easy to defend core, where, as long as galleys haven't appeared, we can put up a serious blockade. We even have a very powerful UU, which is not to be beated at the short range. On top of that, we have made contact - Lady Fortune decided we don't need to fear any attacks from our other neighbours - and can rely on them to get farther in the tech tree at minimal cost. And, what may be the beauty of this all, GS does not have access to such a trading partner (or at least that's what I'm expecting, I can't know for use).

So, how can I benefit from this position greatest? Why don't I annoy GS a little, they can't scout my land, I can see everything. I don't want a war, as it would never be a good deal for us, but if I can get GS to start a war, I know that my trading partner, and my isolated position wil mean I will get out of this fight as a winner. I don't even have to take one city of theirs, if I can just hold on to my own territory and it's easily defendable position, and let the tides break away at my borders. Once the time is ripe, I can thus start my GA (on my timing), but only once I need it. But, I won't use that GA to build up an invasion force (sure, I need ample protection), I build a tech empire, which can trade with all the nations of the world. I build a few exploring galleys, and I'll see what the rest of the world can offer me, and how much support I can buy to take on these aggresive neighbours of mine. Only then will I really have the resources to take a big piece of the cake, a piece I know I can't win on my own. GS will be a threat to my existence for as long as I live.

So, how do I get them to fight some unwinnable wars: simple, the main attack has to happen right in front of my home turf, where I can use catapults to weaken them, horseman to follow them, and immortals to take them out (once I need my GA, before that archers will have to do). Other then that, I try to set up a few annoyance patrols out there, but not too much, just enough to let them think they're seeing the beginnings of a clumsy invasion force. These are only for disturbance and annoyance, and the prime idea is they draw away some of GS forces, hopefully taking more units with them than they have costed me. Diplomatically speaking, I try to annoy them as well, by not answering immediately to deals, ignoring others, and if trades are possible pick them so that I can sell them again to my other friendly neighbour, selling GS some useless tech instead.

Finally, I start some diversion to completely provoke them. I'll post a thread on the strategy forum which many of them consider home turf. I'll ask, somewhat clumsy again, how immortals versus - oh, let's say - War Chariots fight. I know the answer of course, immortals are good on rough terrain, and they are good on defense (actually, they can't be beaten on defense, certainly when it comes to WCs which can be handled with loads of archers just as effectively). GS will maybe get the idea we are going to try to rush them, they'll prepare defensive forces (waste of resources), they'll even plan a preemptive strike. Let them come, we're more then able to hold our ground

[/Alternate Reality RPG]

DeepO

[edited a small naming mistake. I am you, and you are us, and together we certainly get confused ]

[Meshelic]

I wonder how many other teams are approaching foreign affairs like we are....ie roleplaying the other team and discussing what we'd do in their place....

This is a great discussion, superb!

I'm tempted to say that we don't want to overestimate the Voxians, but that would of course be foolish. Always overestimate, otherwise we wouldn't be properly prepared for the situation...

[alva]

847 words
It reads like a 'Dear diary'

War with GS is inevitable at some point in the future, since they have nowhere to expand but trough us.

([non-vox]ok, vox doesn't know that yet, but will someday[/non-vox])

[DeepO]

Alva, you're counting words?

Okay, I admit, maybe a bit too much text to get my point across. But hey, I was happy typing away, and only later realised how much text it had become

DeepO

[alva]

Yep, I did manually

[DeepO]

You've got too much time on your hands, especially at night

DeepO