Turn 245: 1275 AD

[Aeson]

I think we should place the Dye city 222 of PS. Just claim 1 Dye for us right now and wait for final city placements until we can discuss it fully with GoW.

Panama city is a good idea, but we only have 1 Settler this turn right? I think we should disband a 1/4 Transport in Abilene and rush a Settler for next turn from it.

I still think that chaining back 8 I is what we should do. Either that or 8 of the damaged Tanks if we don't use them this turn. The more MI we have over on Lego, the more difficult it's going to be for GoW to get ideas...

For much the same reason I think we should leave the N Lego stack untouched. Sure we could take them out, but we'd end up with almost everything we have on Lego exposed next turn, and most of it injured. If there are still enemy units for GoW to play with, they are less likely to get ideas. The leader shots we are giving GoW aren't that important IMO. By my count they have 2 Elite Tanks, a 1/5 and a 2/5. So they would have 2 shots at leaders from them. They could use Marines too. They have a 4/5, and 2 3/5s. So at most they are getting 5 shots at leaders. In exchange we are taking 10-15 fewer losses (some of which would be Tank retreats though) and have another 10-15 fewer units damaged and exposed. GoW with it's bombardment won't take many losses doing the same thing.

[Aeson]

They do have some Elite Riders too. Do we know how many? There are 3 exposed right now. That brings the tally up to 8 shots at a MGL, but 2-3 of those fights will probably be lost.

I still think that if we give GoW an MGL we're better off letting GoW hit the N stack though.

[Aeson]

Oh, and that 2/5 Tank can't make it there as it's stuck next to Abilene.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson
I think we should place the Dye city 222 of PS. Just claim 1 Dye for us right now and wait for final city placements until we can discuss it fully with GoW.

That's the other option, yes. But we do give them something here: even if we are better in culture, we only claim 2 sources, while they have a guaranteed 3. If we do this, we have to make sure they know we do it deliberately to give them something, and that they don't see it as a sign of weakness.

Panama city is a good idea, but we only have 1 Settler this turn right? I think we should disband a 1/4 Transport in Abilene and rush a Settler for next turn from it.

Yes, only one settler. Consider the scrapping of a transport in Abilene done.

I still think that chaining back 8 I is what we should do. Either that or 8 of the damaged Tanks if we don't use them this turn. The more MI we have over on Lego, the more difficult it's going to be for GoW to get ideas...

Didn't I tell this somewhere? Aeson, no need to convince me, I agree we should chain 8 infs over. I prefer these over tanks, as we need to get them upgraded asap. In case GoW gets any ideas, we lose our rubber again.

For much the same reason I think we should leave the N Lego stack untouched. Sure we could take them out, but we'd end up with almost everything we have on Lego exposed next turn, and most of it injured. If there are still enemy units for GoW to play with, they are less likely to get ideas. The leader shots we are giving GoW aren't that important IMO. By my count they have 2 Elite Tanks, a 1/5 and a 2/5. So they would have 2 shots at leaders from them. They could use Marines too. They have a 4/5, and 2 3/5s. So at most they are getting 5 shots at leaders. In exchange we are taking 10-15 fewer losses (some of which would be Tank retreats though) and have another 10-15 fewer units damaged and exposed. GoW with it's bombardment won't take many losses doing the same thing.

You forget a couple of units... cavs and riders. They can chain another 8 over to Legoland without any problem. Those can be 8 elites. with their bombardment, they won't lose units, and even have good chances with elite riders against 1/4 infs. They have 5 shots for sure given your numbers, but I assume they will have 12 shots if we leave 12 units. That's on average 1 GL, if I'm not mistaken.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Damn... okay, a decision to make. I clicked in the civ screen (my game is still open), and somehow I ordered the new sub from WoC to move in the direction of Elipolis (it;s at Eli 66 now). This was not the intention, of course.

I'm not sure if this is a legit reason to replay the save up to this point or not. I can make sure we are hit by the ZoC again, I think. This was a mistake, of course, no reason to move that sub...

OTOH, it won't matter much either. It would have prefered that sub to move 663 to spot for Lego subs, but we've got one in Inchoff already. And we can use more subs in the sea between us and Bob.

So, do I replay for this?

DeepO

[DeepO]

Thinking on this, we might want to change something in WoC. Currently, we're building a sub there for next turn, and I would suggest we build something naval. However, with a forest and 40 gold, we can build a DD instead. (forest chop, rush to explorer, set to DD). That might be more helpful if we want to deal with a possible N fleet.

DeepO

[Aeson]

I don't think they can have any Elite Cavalry. There hasn't been any warfare since we left Bob. I don't know how many Riders they have, but like I said, even if we were to give them a sure Leader (which we aren't...) I think it's better for us to save units.

The number of luxuries is unimportant IMO. We need one for use, and it would be nice to have 1 to trade to ND. A landgrab from us at this stage, even if just in GoW's perception, could easily mean we lose the game. Definitely not worth the risk to claim more than we have to until it has been thoroughly discussed with GoW.

[Aeson]

I think we can use a couple more Subs, not right now though. I wouldn't mind 2-3 Battleship builds from WoC. For right now I wouldn't send our Subs out of the cities. If we spot Lego's Sub we basically have just allowed them to sink our's because we'd have nothing to sink it with first.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson
I don't think they can have any Elite Cavalry. There hasn't been any warfare since we left Bob. I don't know how many Riders they have, but like I said, even if we were to give them a sure Leader (which we aren't...) I think it's better for us to save units.

You're right on the elite cavs... there haven't been any barbs either. And seeing the riders they brought, it might be everything they had.

I'm not sure on giving them a GL...
Let's see. if they go for a wonder, they still have 7 options:
- UN. If they go for that, they know they can win with the votes, meaning we can't anyway. However, if we want a UN win, it would keep us from launching a vote. Hmmm.
- SETI: useless wonder. Adds another 60 or so commerce, but at this point that is peanuts.
- Internet: definately worth a leader, but seeing that we're researching it, we should also get a shot at prebuilding it, and timing that so that we don't run into problems.
- the last 2 wonders will likely never be researched
- Palaca move seems not the best choice
- SS part is unneccesary either.
- army gives them the ability to build armies themselves... maybe the most useful option to them. But then again, armies aren't that powerful either

You might be right. A leader is not so important, the lost units (some 5 or so, probably) is. But before we do this, we might need to contact GoW and make sure they are willing to go for those units.

The number of luxuries is unimportant IMO. We need one for use, and it would be nice to have 1 to trade to ND. A landgrab from us at this stage, even if just in GoW's perception, could easily mean we lose the game. Definitely not worth the risk to claim more than we have to until it has been thoroughly discussed with GoW.

Yes, I agree, but if we only claim 1, leaving 3 guarantees to GoW and a 4th maybe, we will appear weak.
No matter how this goes, we need contact with GoW over this issue. Maybe it's better to ask for something before settling a city... that doesn't have to be a question, we could e.g. say "Hey, we want to settle that tile as we want the lux next turn. Do you have any problems with this?"

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson
I think we can use a couple more Subs, not right now though. I wouldn't mind 2-3 Battleship builds from WoC. For right now I wouldn't send our Subs out of the cities. If we spot Lego's Sub we basically have just allowed them to sink our's because we'd have nothing to sink it with first.

BBs... now that's something else. WoC can build BBs every 2 turns while in mob. And yes, we can use those.

What about the sub that moved without me wanting it, do I replay for this? I propose to leave it as is.

Oh, and Lego subs: the one that sank the Nina is 1/4, and can't heal. it would be welcome to attack a full health sub (a transport too, BTW)

DeepO

[Aeson]

I think we should place the city and send GoW a message that we've done so to temporarily claim a luxury for our own use until we've had a chance to discuss the division of Lego's land.

[Aeson]

We could move the Sub out of Inchoff 663 and move the DD up to cover it. We do need to start clearing for Subs, and it might be best to do so before Lego can get all it's ships together.

[Aeson]

Hurricane might be a good spot to build a Sub this turn. We could use one down there near the chain.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson
I think we should place the city and send GoW a message that we've done so to temporarily claim a luxury for our own use until we've had a chance to discuss the division of Lego's land.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson
We could move the Sub out of Inchoff 663 and move the DD up to cover it. We do need to start clearing for Subs, and it might be best to do so before Lego can get all it's ships together.

Only problem is that this means we'll need to send our transports over our chain unprotected for the time being. No sub scouting, as otherwise our DDs get out of position. We better use the full health DD on Hub 2 to assist in the South, whih leaves us no room for anything else.

DeepO