GAUL - The attack on Legoland

[DeepO]

Oh, and I propose to send that pic, but with some photoshopping to remove our build and growth times, to GoW. They send us theirs as well, even if it gives only a rough idea.

DeepO

[DeepO]

And something else I've been thinking on lately: (I told it before, I think, but nothing definite)

Even if Sandorinico is going to be our main invasion point (we should spy on Sando and on Quanto first to see, of course), it would be most devastating if we can take Quanto over land too on D-day. The reason is our transport capacity: with the 53 marines, possibly 8 MI, and at least 2 settlers, we only have room for 17 tanks in our Northern fleet. That should be enough, together with bombardment by DD, and the leftover marines, to take Quanto in the first phase.

Doing so will give us 80 more transport places to work with in the first turn... meaning an extra 50 tanks, settlers as much as we like, arts, workers for radar towers, infs to upgrade, and explorers to fill the gaps. With that kind of force, it is perhaps possible to win the entire South of Lego in the first turn. Without it, we will barely reach the FP.

This depends on how the attack goes, of course. But rather than safe our left-over marines for later, I would rather use them to try to make that first blow even more decisive.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Hum.. I made a mistake in that plan: DD 10 is actually a Lego one, not ours

Maybe we should move DD 8 one tile 6, so it can reach one of the Lego DDs then... but I wonder how Lego will react

DeepO

[DeepO]

And some more comments (I'm on a roll ):

With Lego having flight, you can be sure that they are currently building bombers. Our only defense against bombing our DDs, and accessing our transports are fighters on air superiority. I suggest we make this a priority once our marines are built.

Oh, and other priorities are defenders for Stormia! We're going to ship at least some 20 infs to Lego in the first turn, leaving only 50 defenders at home. Some of these are still rifles... for our own safety, we should at least have 2 MI per city with most of our offensive force gone.

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

sounds fantastic.

[Aeson]

Lets hope they keep the BB stack up north. If they were to block Quanto's harbor with them we might not be able to get through Sand at all.

The thing working for us is they won't know if they should blockade Quanto or one of the N ports.

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I thought we were going to have 13 Transports in the main fleet? If we have to, we can build a couple more Transports at the expense of something... I'd give up a Marine or three (but probably not more) for 24 more Tanks.

We can certainly keep Quanto a possible target. Problem is with all the transports capable of hitting Quanto, a big chunk of Lego's defense should be expected to be there... on a Hill right? We probably won't have the Marines available to take it.

As for Roleplay, they need to land their Conqs the same turn we plant the city for them (turn of landing). If they don't, we might never have a chance for them to land->go again.

[Aeson]

Our Southern stack needs to be able to hit Tipperary too. Otherwise we will face more units in Sand or Quanto.

Abilene 447 would be in range of shore bombardment, but that might not be such a bad thing. The risk is if we lose the Transports, then Lego doesn't have to guard Abilene or Tipperary at all.

Do Bombers have lethal sea bombardment in PtW?

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Aeson
Do Bombers have lethal sea bombardment in PtW?

No.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson
Lets hope they keep the BB stack up north. If they were to block Quanto's harbor with them we might not be able to get through Sand at all.

The thing working for us is they won't know if they should blockade Quanto or one of the N ports.

Damn good point... let's hope they don't see it. All the more reason why we need additional movement points on our Northern fleet, as their BB stack will have to pass it if they want to go South. So definately aim for the large ellips on T-1. Even if we can only bombard their stack instead of outright attacking it, the risk will be a lot smaller when they have 6 ships with 1 or 2 hitpoints left.

I thought we were going to have 13 Transports in the main fleet? If we have to, we can build a couple more Transports at the expense of something... I'd give up a Marine or three (but probably not more) for 24 more Tanks.

We have 13 transports to use, but everything depends on how much we need to chain beforehand. If we delay so our marines are ready before departure, we can use the full 13 ships for something useful, instead of just for chaining. With 1 turn delay, we can use 12 ships, with 1 chaining one, with 2 turns delay we can even build extra transports and fill them (including with MI).

Building extra transports no matter what can always happen, but would be ideal if I change it this coming turn during the build phase. So that decision has to fall fast

We can certainly keep Quanto a possible target. Problem is with all the transports capable of hitting Quanto, a big chunk of Lego's defense should be expected to be there... on a Hill right? We probably won't have the Marines available to take it.

Yes, probably. So we shouldn't aim for it, and have what's needed to hit their FP in case we find it too heavily defended. But I would keep it a goal, and see what Lego acts.
Quanto is on a hill (AFAIK), and size 13 (but we can reasonably assume that we can bombard that to size 12). so assuming there are 10 infs in the city, we can only safely do this when we've got over 20 tanks to risk. But even then, the possible gain of another 40-50 tanks is large, and tempting.

As for Roleplay, they need to land their Conqs the same turn we plant the city for them (turn of landing). If they don't, we might never have a chance for them to land->go again.

In that case, we need to give them oil next turn, and have them moving fast. I'm not sure they can even get there in time now, I should have thought of that before.

Marines don't use oil, right? In that case, there is no problem in giving it to them for one turn, and pillaging our source later.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson
Our Southern stack needs to be able to hit Tipperary too. Otherwise we will face more units in Sand or Quanto.

Abilene 447 would be in range of shore bombardment, but that might not be such a bad thing. The risk is if we lose the Transports, then Lego doesn't have to guard Abilene or Tipperary at all.

Hum. I don't like it. Looking at GoW's plan, they won't end near the coast neither... which means this will be the only group close enough for Lego to attack. They will most certainly take the opportunity, and use all they got, we can expect all our ships to be at 1 hp. Or worse, they bombard the DDs to 1 hp, and have the transports exposed.

In itself, that's no problem whatsoever. But it makes them extremely vulnerable, e.g. to sub attacks. We will only have 9 escorts on those ships, and we can be sure we will have subs, and DDs circling it. It's a big risk we would be taking...

DeepO

[DeepO]

I think the main decision we have to take, is whether we want to delay embarkment to turn 240 (which the original plans called for), or turn 241. I see no viable option of doing it in turn 239.

The decision is urgent, as we should be telling this to GoW before they play their current turn!

DeepO

[DeepO]

A possibility to consider: instead of putting transports within reach of Lego's art, we could send 3 empty transports and a DD (or 2) to Abilene 441. This would be out of reach of their arts, shouldn't cost us too much in transport capability, and the ships would be expendable. It would also threaten Tipperary, with a virtual 24 marines.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Oh, something else which might not be so clear: More and more, I try to work into planning that we have to have MI present on Lego soon. Ideally, we chain a couple of them into our initial landing force, so they can cover our new cities on D-day. Otherwise, we have to be on Lego before tanks are a real threat.

But there is a problem with that latest scenario: if we don't take MI on our transports, we need at least 1 more turn before they can be used, possibly even 2. They need to be upgraded, which requires both a harbor, and braacks present. We will raze Sando, so without taking Quanto a harbor can only be built on D+1, meaning upgraded MI on D+2... in every scenario, that will have given Lego 2 turns at least to build tanks and use them before MIs cover our cities and tanks.

Personally, I rather face an extra 15 tanks when landing, if that means we can have 8, or even 30 MI instead of only I.

DeepO

[Aeson]

I say switch builds to 2 more Transports before trading oil to Roleplay. The Transports can be used for chaining more units, so should pay off in any case. RP has the money to upgrade too right?

2 turn delay is probably the right thing. We can expect militarily to gain more between us and GoW than Lego will gain. It will allow RP to get into position too.

The smaller task force even further S is a good idea. Especially given 2 more turns where we could beef it up a bit. Maybe this one should be sent out earlier, being placed like they are S pickets (in the area SW of #10 on the screenshot). Once our hand is exposed by the main fleet leaving we form up these SE "pickets" into a stack and should have a turn or two head start.

Then we could even round the tip to threaten Horsefish too by staying near the pole for the first couple turns (if not to escape attention, to be out of range of as much potential damage as possible), then heading N. Might mean 5-10 Inf that we won't have to face elsewhere. If we can get to Horsefish 333 then it would allow us to threaten yet another city (IIRC city placement right). So if we form up on T-4 at 22211 of #10, then move 66666 on T-2 then move 66666 on T-2 and 88888 on T-1, we can get there and split Tipporary, Horsefish, and one other city with a possible 24 Marines.

The risk is that this force will be sunk entirely. I think in that case it's still worthwhile because that means our main force will take fewer hits. It should be out of range of most everything but pickets for much of the way though.

We'd need to "start off" right now though, by getting those "pickets" on their way from Sufa this turn right?

[DeepO]

The difference when heading even more South then what I proposed is that it is IMHO not so believable. We wouldn't risk a force of 24 marines alone. We would however risk an empty fleet, within reach of our main force marines through chaining. If the attack succeeds with 16 marines, we could use the last ship to move in defenders and tanks. I think, even if it only threatens one more city, it is more believable.

Camouflaging the extra transports as pickets is certainly possible, but yes, we should start on this now (or as fast as possible). Things that were already planned were to move DD8 6, and to move DD7 6333.

However, when the goal is changed to Abilene 11114, we won't need to... that position will threaten the two cities, be in reach of our main Southern force, and can be reached in 2 turns starting from Sufa 33332. That position can't be spotted by Lego ironclads (if they remain forted, and don't move of course).

Delaying to turn 241: it would certainly make life a lot easier. That means a Northern force of 14 transports, 1 chainer (which brings 8 MI), and the marines as desired. If so, I prefer to build the transports right now (breaking into the build queue next turn), as both Blizzard and Hurricane can produce them next turn. 1 more from Typhoon is certainly possible as well, given our diversion in the deep South.

Or 2 more for the Souther force, to balance it out compared to the one up North.

DeepO