Tweet
[00:00] * Togas writes turnnotes...
[00:00] *BigFree* We have 3 reg Pikes and one Vet Pike
[00:01] *BigFree* ^ MI's
[00:01] *dejon* and 6 MI, 3 at 3/4, 1 at 4/4, 1 at 2/4, 1 at 1/4
[00:01] *BigFree* *6
[00:01] *BigFree* One at 2/5
[00:02] *dejon* sorry, yes 2/5, not 2/4
[00:02] *Togas* send in the horses?
[00:02] *BigFree* yes
[00:02] *Trip* cavalry pursuit
[00:02] *BigFree* I think so
[00:02] *dejon* I think so - GS concurs?
[00:02] *nye* noooo
[00:02] *asleepath* yeah, lets hold that thought for a minute
[00:02] *nye* that is a knight
[00:02] *Togas* Shall I station the Riders of the Trinity in Zaragoza.
[00:02] *nye* oh
[00:02] *nbarclay* Verifying, 1 vet pike, 3 reg pikes, 1 4/4 MedInf, 3 3/4 MedInf, 1 2/5 MedInf, and one 1/4 MedInf?
[00:02] *BigFree* yes
[00:03] *Togas* Zaragoza *is* the center of the Church in Spain, a holy city.
[00:03] *asleepath* how many ansars can they possibly attackwith next turn? + left over infantry, can that defeat all of Z? I don't think so
[00:03] *dejon* The horses would just go to Z to Fort, and they can upgrade to knights there too
[00:03] *nye* the horse could result in it holding
[00:03] *asleepath* I like that move
[00:03] *BigFree* or they can be available to do some recon from there
[00:04] *BigFree* if we really need to
[00:04] *nye* something that would be good to know at this point...
[00:04] *nbarclay* So ten units in Zaragoza, eight that would defend before horsemen and two that would defend after.
[00:04] *dejon* I figure ND has 7-8 healthy Ansars in the area (most likely in Leon)
[00:04] *nye* can the worker near vigo move 2 and see if there are ansars at vigo 2 2 1
[00:05] *nye* it should be a road, so you still have two-thirds mp
[00:05] *nbarclay* If it comes down to all you having left being horsemen or injured units, ND might very well attack with a wounded Ansar or two trying to finish off the city.
[00:05] *Togas* 4 Winter's Serf moves 2, sees no Ansars in the southern mtns near Portugal.
[00:05] *nye* excellent
[00:05] *asleepath* and since each can possibly attack Z 2x, correct.....
[00:06] *nye* no they can;t, they are not tanks
[00:06] *Togas* I think they still have 1 attack.
[00:06] *Trip* Ansars don't have blitz
[00:06] *asleepath* oh, I thought they did.
[00:06] *nye* ;0
[00:06] *Trip* Panzers do though
[00:06] *nbarclay* Not even cavalry have blitz.
[00:06] *asleepath* duh
[00:06] *asleepath* huh, not as good a unit as I thought
[00:07] *BigFree* Ok, then 3 horses to Zara
[00:07] *nbarclay* Probably a good move. They might even get a shot at Ansars who attack the city and fail.
[00:07] *nbarclay* (Keep in mind that a horseman's attack is as high as an Ansar's defense.
)
[00:08] *asleepath* FYI BF and Togas, ND doesn't have engineering
[00:08] *BigFree* nice
[00:08] *BigFree* very good info
[00:08] *dejon* Send the cavalry to Zara, Togas
[00:08] *BigFree* wait
[00:08] *dejon* now what?
[00:08] *BigFree* ND could have it now
[00:09] *dejon* no
[00:09] *BigFree* they play after GS
[00:09] *dejon* I checked
[00:09] *BigFree* Ok
[00:09] *dejon* Offer peace and check the tech list
[00:09] *Togas* 4 The Riders of the Trinity have gone to protect the Holy City of Zaragoza.
[00:09] *nbarclay* It's still theoretically possible that they could complete a deal for Engineering in their next turn, or finish researching it themselves.
[00:10] *Togas* 4 ND has Engineering
[00:10] *dejon* but they could have it next turn, if they got it from GoW or Vox this turn (since both play after ND)
[00:10] *Togas* It does not show when we offer peace.
[00:10] *dejon* huh?
[00:10] *BigFree* Togas, do the 'fotify all' thing on troops in Zara using the horsemen as the active unit.
[00:11] *Togas* BF, explain what you mean
[00:11] *BigFree* Ok
[00:11] *BigFree* youmoved the horses there right?
[00:11] *dejon* oops, you're right - I don't know where my head was
[00:11] *Togas* of course
[00:11] *BigFree* leave one activated, then right click and choose "fortify all"
[00:12] *Togas* I have the Horsemen of The Father active
[00:12] *Togas* will do
[00:12] *BigFree* good
[00:12] *nbarclay* I think two units have to be unfortified for "fortify all" to be available.
[00:12] *Togas* done
[00:12] *nbarclay* But if one is active and "fortify all" is not available, it means the others all have "fortify" instructions.
[00:13] *BigFree* "fotify all" was avaialbe to me
[00:14] *nye* because none of the attacking mi have the fortify command, till you fortify all
[00:14] *nbarclay* Right. As long as a "fortify all" hadn't already been done, the option would be available.
[00:14] *nye* it may make a difference, i will be testing to see if what soren said so long ago is still true
[00:14] *Togas* anyhow, any other changes to the posted orders?
[00:14] *Togas* any suggestions? questions?
[00:14] *BigFree* 12 RP is still 'average' to ND
[00:15] *dejon* I just have to make one galley order change Togas - doing it now
[00:15] *nbarclay* Let me take one last look over the orders, if you don't mind.
[00:15] *nye* leave salamanca with one pike?
[00:16] *Togas* sure, I'll wait.
[00:16] *nye* although, i think it unlikely they will dash to the south after jest being handed a bloddy nose
[00:16] *dejon* We built walls in salamanca, may as well defend it
[00:16] *nye* there is one pike, yes?
[00:16] *BigFree* yes
[00:16] *nye* another south of there?
[00:16] *BigFree* one pike
[00:16] *nbarclay* No suggestions for further changes from me.
[00:17] *asleepath* so leave the iron deposit as is and no move on leon this turn?
[00:17] *BigFree* nye: there's a pike 8-8 of valencia
[00:17] *dejon* Where was the Spear 77 from Salamanca going?
[00:17] *asleepath* it cut the road last turn
[00:17] *BigFree* Most likey to Pamplona for upgrade
[00:17] *nye* back the road with hill
[00:18] *asleepath* yes, good
[00:18] *BigFree* We should pillage the Iron now
[00:18] *nbarclay* ND has no viable way to cut off Salamanca from reinforcements.
[00:18] *Togas* he's an excellent observer
[00:18] *nye* one pike from pamplona to salamanca might be prudent
[00:18] *nye* so it is there and fortified if and when they top that rise
[00:19] *BigFree* true
[00:19] *Togas* Do I pillage Iron?
[00:19] *BigFree* though they cant attack it in one turn from their current position
[00:19] *nye* togas, the spear could pop back up there any turn you want to peak
[00:19] *nbarclay* NYE's idea is to have an extra unit already fortified if they attack.
[00:19] *BigFree* yes, pillage the Iron to prent them from building Pikes
[00:19] *dejon* Salamanca doesn't have much mil. value
[00:19] *nye* they cannot kill it behind the ridge
[00:20] *nye* dejon, salamanca is the key to the south. if nd ever realise it
[00:21] *Togas* 4 Iron Road cut
[00:21] *BigFree*
[00:21] *Togas* though it pains me to cut a road with such history.
[00:21] *nye* i can imagine
[00:22] *Togas* We have a spear and a pike 2-3 of Vigo
[00:22] *Togas* keep both there fortified?
[00:22] *BigFree* BTW, where does GoW troops show up on GS'es radar?
[00:22] *BigFree* Togas; I would move Pike 4 and cut that road next turn
[00:23] *asleepath* bilbao 77 last turn
[00:23] *dejon* Togas, guess so - they're there for bait
[00:23] *BigFree* thanks asleep
[00:23] *nbarclay* BF, are you talking about troop strength, or location?
[00:23] *BigFree* The road at Vigo 2-1 should be cut
[00:23] *dejon* BF - do you think ND is going to rush a temple?
[00:24] *Togas* Dejon -- move a unit to gems or not?
[00:24] *BigFree* Location Nbarclay
[00:24] *BigFree* dejon: they may
[00:24] *BigFree* I know I miight
[00:25] *dejon* even if they grow Vigo, they have to connect these cities with the rest of ND again too - there's plenty of other points for us to cut later
[00:25] *nbarclay* Fourteen riders 7-7 from Bilbao. No other GoW forces in sight.
[00:25] *Togas* that's their army, even their galleys on the east coast have moved north
[00:25] *BigFree* dejon: the reason is to prevent them from getting units to the South of Spain to quickly
[00:25] *Togas* The Pinta has been looking for a fight, and had no luck
[00:26] *dejon* however, moving to the gems may encourage them to take the bait of those two, so it might be a good idea anyways
[00:26] *Togas* I'll move the pike...
[00:26] *Togas* ah ha!
[00:26] *Togas* 4 ND ships sighted!
[00:27] *BigFree* Does anyone else get the impression that GoW is pussyfooting it?
[00:27] *Togas* they are 1 1 1 from Vigo
[00:27] *dejon* BF- we'd have to pillage S of Vigo to make a difference on their speed to distant southern spain
[00:27] *BigFree* that one road 1-2 of Vigo also delays them
[00:28] *dejon* Do you think ND would put Ansars on those boats to go ravage southern Spain?
[00:28] *BigFree* possibly
[00:28] *dejon* they had the roads to get on them
[00:28] *BigFree* they are three turns from Sevilla
[00:29] *Togas* they could change their mind if they believe we have a strong northern army.
[00:31] *Togas* 4 where to move the Madrid workers?
[00:31] *nbarclay* Are you planning to post something about the success of your glorious crusade on the public forum?
[00:31] *BigFree* we definatley should
[00:31] *Togas* absolutely
[00:31] *nbarclay* What's the status of getting a second source of spices hooked up?
[00:31] *dejon* Did you guys still want a road at NM 9?
[00:32] *Togas* 2nd spice ... glad you mentioned it.
[00:32] *Togas* We need to make that a priority in the south.
[00:32] *Togas* in 2 turns we can have 3 workers on it
[00:32] *nye* yes, togas. nm9 is a very good tile to have a road on, nathan?
[00:32] *Togas* 4 Castor & Pollox moved to New Madrid 9
[00:33] *nbarclay* I wish you'd waited a little longer, if there's anything else useful the workers might do.
[00:34] *Togas* 4 The Isabella (galley) moves 9 9 and stops there to not interfere with GS movement
[00:34] *dejon* aargh -no!
[00:34] *dejon* damn
[00:34] *Togas* ??
[00:34] *dejon* I edited that order
[00:34] *Togas* what is new order?
[00:34] *dejon* 98
[00:34] *Togas* I have 1 move left
[00:34] *Togas* can move to 8 if needed
[00:34] *dejon* move inland please
[00:34] *Togas* will do
[00:34] *nbarclay* Thanks.
[00:35] *nbarclay* The original order interfered with where I wanted to unload our settler from.
[00:35] *Togas* done
[00:35] *dejon* sorry for the aargh - I forgot we'd only used 2 move points.
[00:35] *nbarclay* If Togas had hit the space bar to end the ship's movement, the aargh would have been completely warranted.
[00:36] *Togas* 4 Pinta sighted GoW ships to the northwest
[00:36] *Togas* they are 9 of the eastern gems
[00:36] *dejon* please refresh your browser, btw Togas (to catch any other edits)
[00:36] *Togas* seem to be headed home
[00:36] *dejon* we'll catch em!
[00:37] *nbarclay* Pinta will chase them right into the grip of Santa Maria, right?
[00:38] *BigFree* yep
[00:38] *Togas* right
[00:38] *Togas* all galleys done
[00:38] *nbarclay* Are the GoW galleys both regulars?
[00:38] *Togas* yep
[00:39] *BigFree* what do you think about rushing a Pike in Merida(central Spain) that would be done otherwise in 3 turns for 32 gold. I would want him to head south to intercept any Ansar attacks on Sevilla.
[00:39] *Togas* The only unit left to move are the Republican Volunteers (spears) near Salamaca
[00:39] *Togas* either move them 3 or fort them
[00:39] *dejon* no
[00:39] *dejon* saving money for Knights
[00:40] *Togas* Move spear or Fort?
[00:40] *dejon* move 3
[00:40] *nye* 32 to rush a vet?
[00:40] *BigFree* no, a reg
[00:40] *Togas* reg
[00:40] *nye* oh
[00:41] *nye* damn if they get loose in the south
[00:41] *dejon* BF - it's a decent rush, but we have to conserve for Knights.
[00:41] *BigFree* well, what do we conserve for if we have nothing left, its a gamble ewither way
[00:42] * asleepath thinks another reason to move on leon soon
[00:42] *Togas* shall we move any units south?
[00:42] *Togas* out of Pamplona?
[00:42] *Togas* we will be "teleporting" another pike and inf to Pamp next turn with the Madrid gifting
[00:43] *BigFree* We will also be losing 20 gpt from NM
[00:43] *nye* a couple of mi might not be a bad idea. to be able to deal with the marauders
[00:43] *BigFree* luckily we make 39gpt
[00:43] *Togas* we need to conserve cash in anticipation of knights
[00:43] *BigFree* I know
[00:43] *Togas* after we get chiv and do upgrades, we rush as needed.
[00:43] *dejon* yeah, but it hinders our ability to launch any attacks of our our
[00:43] *BigFree* I'm just bringing up how much we lose this turn
[00:44] *dejon* I guess we should send some defenders south from pamp
[00:44] *dejon* maybe 2 pikes and an MI?
[00:44] *Togas* 4 Pamplona builds pike or horse?
[00:44] *dejon* hmm
[00:44] *BigFree* Pike
[00:44] *BigFree* we cant afford upgrades now as it is
[00:44] *asleepath* I would go for Mi, personally
[00:44] *dejon* It's not looking good for upgrade costs
[00:45] *nbarclay* How many shields per turn does Pamplona produce?
[00:45] *asleepath* but I have no idea of the production capacity
[00:45] *BigFree* 11 shields
[00:45] *BigFree* Pike material
[00:45] *Togas* in 4 turns it will be up to 14
[00:45] *dejon* BF - thanks for reminding us that losing NM for 2 turns will hinder our upgrade cash more - maybe we should just rush that Pike
[00:45] *nbarclay* Hits 14 on the fourth turn?
[00:46] *BigFree* from now, yes
[00:46] *Togas* will grow and mine will be ready by then.
[00:46] *nbarclay* If that's true, building a pike and then switching to MedInf production would be perfect.
[00:46] *Togas* 4 pamplona switch to pike
[00:47] *dejon* switch Zara to Pike too please
[00:47] *BigFree* Zara is at 9 shields per turn
[00:47] *dejon* horses will cost us too much
[00:47] *nbarclay* No way to get it higher right now, I suppose?
[00:47] *dejon* wait for knights
[00:47] *BigFree* if we removed the ND Mi, we could get 10
[00:48] *dejon* we need to adjust the Zara WF, btw
[00:48] *nbarclay* But only until they put something else on the tile.
[00:48] *BigFree* true
[00:48] *Togas* already adjusted Zara WF
[00:48] *dejon* okay
[00:48] *Togas* to use the forest/game
[00:48] *nbarclay* WF?
[00:48] *dejon* workforce
[00:48] *nbarclay* Ah.
[00:48] *dejon* SPDG lingo
[00:49] *Togas* unfortunately Z makes 9spt with ND on that tile.
[00:49] *Togas* we lost 1 to corruption
[00:49] *BigFree* make a taxman with the extra pop in Zara
[00:49] *BigFree* no need to work jungle
[00:50] *BigFree* we dont need pop to drop now
[00:50] *Togas* no taxman
[00:50] *Togas* w/o taxman we have 20 commerce
[00:50] *Togas* with taxman we have 18
[00:50] *BigFree* but, if we work jungle we risk dropping pop to 6 and losing defense bonus
[00:51] *dejon* Do you have to be working the jungle have disease risk?
[00:51] *BigFree* and you only lose one commerce doing so
[00:52] *Togas* does anyone know if there is a realistic chance of disease if we do this?
[00:52] *BigFree* the 18 with a taxman, doesn't count the one commecre from the taxman
[00:52] *Togas* we have worked the Santiago jungle tiles for centuries and never had disease
[00:52] *Togas* We have never suffered from disease in our long history
[00:52] *BigFree* I had disease in our FAM 2 game
[00:52] *BigFree* I lost 3 pops
[00:53] *dejon* I didn't think the WF assignment mattered, only whether you had disease tiles in your borders. But I don't know for fact.
[00:53] *Togas* true, the taxman adds 1 commerce, so our net commerce is -1 with him
[00:53] *BigFree* nye?
[00:53] *BigFree* can you confirm working a jungle tile gives a city risk for disease
[00:53] *nye* you risk disease if you work the tiles
[00:54] *nye* we got disease 3 times in eots, from flood plains
[00:54] *BigFree* ouch
[00:54] *nbarclay* BF, was your disease in that game this far into it, or was it earlier?
[00:54] *BigFree* it was in the very begiining
[00:54] *BigFree* Like about 15 turns into it
[00:54] *nbarclay* It seems to me that disease is a whole lot worse in the early game than it is farther on.
[00:54] *dejon* ouch. I've had disease maybe 3 times in ALL my civs games, SP and MP
[00:55] *nbarclay* In this game, GS got hit with disease in our capital three times relatively early.
[00:55] *BigFree* It's not worth the risk for one commerce IMO
[00:55] *nbarclay* But we've been working a much higher number of flood plains for the last few centuries and no disease at all.
[00:55] *nbarclay* I think you'd be pretty safe.
[00:55] *Togas* advice? Is it worth the VERY slim chance of disease for us to have +1 commerce? (and half the growth)
[00:55] *Trip* knock on wood :P
[00:55] *BigFree* If we lose on e pop we lose 50% defense bonus
[00:56] *dejon* I guess we're lucking Leon never had disease
[00:56] *nbarclay* And note that the difference isn't just one commerce. It's also one food per turn toward growing your next pop point.
[00:56] *nye* togas, the question is, is the 1 gold worth the risk of the loss of the 50% defense bonus?
[00:56] *Togas* Leon and Santiago both never had disease. God looks favorably on Spain
[00:56] *Trip* *ACS_MarkG* server reboot in a couple of minutes!
[00:56] *Togas* damn!
[00:57] *BigFree* Nbarclay, we have no tiles to work for that extra pop anyways, its rather useless to grow
[00:57] *dejon* vite vite!
[00:57] *Trip* to undernet!
[00:57] *Togas* before we go
[00:57] *dejon* we're almost done no?
[00:57] *nbarclay* Will you have extra tiles when you get your cities back?
[00:57] *Togas* BF & NYE say taxman, yes?
[00:57] *BigFree* yes
[00:57] *Togas* Dejon, your take?
[00:57] *nbarclay* In any case, it doesn't make a huge difference one way or the other.
[00:58] *dejon* I say work the jungle
[00:58] *nbarclay* (Unless you do get hit with disease.)
[00:58] *Togas* nbarclay seems in favor of present WF
[00:58] *nye* togas, you city, your call
[00:58] *dejon* I want knights
[00:58] *Togas* actually, the City once belonged to the Dejon family
[00:58] *Togas* before it was given to the Church ...
[00:58] *BigFree* at one commerce dejon, you get little help from the jungle
[00:58] *dejon* it's been in Aidun's hands longer than mine
[00:58] *dejon* true BF
[00:58] *Togas* and it's now in my hands with the emergency war powers
[00:59] *dejon* pacify the conservatives, taxman
[00:59] *Togas* taxman it is.
[00:59] *dejon* we'll rack the points now and make a truly daring and risky move later
[00:59] *BigFree* I will set up MilOps cahnnel on Undernet
[00:59] *dejon* :P
[00:59] *Togas* 4 all posted orders done
[00:59] *BigFree* ok
[00:59] *Togas* 4 all city WF and builds checked
[00:59] *BigFree* no need for channel then
[00:59] *dejon* diplo done?
[00:59] *Togas* not yet
[00:59] *dejon* luxes, tech
[01:00] *Togas* will do diplo now
[01:00] *BigFree* gift city to GS and give the one lux we have
[01:00] *Togas* will give lux, tech, wb, madrid
[01:00] *BigFree* plu all gold
[01:00] *Togas* and all gold...
[01:00] *BigFree* whats wb?
[01:09] * Disconnected
Session Close: Sun Jul 27 01:09:20 2003
[00:00] *BigFree* We have 3 reg Pikes and one Vet Pike
[00:01] *BigFree* ^ MI's
[00:01] *dejon* and 6 MI, 3 at 3/4, 1 at 4/4, 1 at 2/4, 1 at 1/4
[00:01] *BigFree* *6
[00:01] *BigFree* One at 2/5
[00:02] *dejon* sorry, yes 2/5, not 2/4
[00:02] *Togas* send in the horses?
[00:02] *BigFree* yes
[00:02] *Trip* cavalry pursuit
[00:02] *BigFree* I think so
[00:02] *dejon* I think so - GS concurs?
[00:02] *nye* noooo
[00:02] *asleepath* yeah, lets hold that thought for a minute
[00:02] *nye* that is a knight
[00:02] *Togas* Shall I station the Riders of the Trinity in Zaragoza.
[00:02] *nye* oh
[00:02] *nbarclay* Verifying, 1 vet pike, 3 reg pikes, 1 4/4 MedInf, 3 3/4 MedInf, 1 2/5 MedInf, and one 1/4 MedInf?
[00:02] *BigFree* yes
[00:03] *Togas* Zaragoza *is* the center of the Church in Spain, a holy city.
[00:03] *asleepath* how many ansars can they possibly attackwith next turn? + left over infantry, can that defeat all of Z? I don't think so
[00:03] *dejon* The horses would just go to Z to Fort, and they can upgrade to knights there too
[00:03] *nye* the horse could result in it holding
[00:03] *asleepath* I like that move
[00:03] *BigFree* or they can be available to do some recon from there
[00:04] *BigFree* if we really need to
[00:04] *nye* something that would be good to know at this point...
[00:04] *nbarclay* So ten units in Zaragoza, eight that would defend before horsemen and two that would defend after.
[00:04] *dejon* I figure ND has 7-8 healthy Ansars in the area (most likely in Leon)
[00:04] *nye* can the worker near vigo move 2 and see if there are ansars at vigo 2 2 1
[00:05] *nye* it should be a road, so you still have two-thirds mp
[00:05] *nbarclay* If it comes down to all you having left being horsemen or injured units, ND might very well attack with a wounded Ansar or two trying to finish off the city.
[00:05] *Togas* 4 Winter's Serf moves 2, sees no Ansars in the southern mtns near Portugal.
[00:05] *nye* excellent
[00:05] *asleepath* and since each can possibly attack Z 2x, correct.....
[00:06] *nye* no they can;t, they are not tanks
[00:06] *Togas* I think they still have 1 attack.
[00:06] *Trip* Ansars don't have blitz
[00:06] *asleepath* oh, I thought they did.
[00:06] *nye* ;0
[00:06] *Trip* Panzers do though
[00:06] *nbarclay* Not even cavalry have blitz.
[00:06] *asleepath* duh
[00:06] *asleepath* huh, not as good a unit as I thought
[00:07] *BigFree* Ok, then 3 horses to Zara
[00:07] *nbarclay* Probably a good move. They might even get a shot at Ansars who attack the city and fail.
[00:07] *nbarclay* (Keep in mind that a horseman's attack is as high as an Ansar's defense.
)[00:08] *asleepath* FYI BF and Togas, ND doesn't have engineering
[00:08] *BigFree* nice
[00:08] *BigFree* very good info
[00:08] *dejon* Send the cavalry to Zara, Togas
[00:08] *BigFree* wait
[00:08] *dejon* now what?
[00:08] *BigFree* ND could have it now
[00:09] *dejon* no
[00:09] *BigFree* they play after GS
[00:09] *dejon* I checked
[00:09] *BigFree* Ok
[00:09] *dejon* Offer peace and check the tech list
[00:09] *Togas* 4 The Riders of the Trinity have gone to protect the Holy City of Zaragoza.
[00:09] *nbarclay* It's still theoretically possible that they could complete a deal for Engineering in their next turn, or finish researching it themselves.
[00:10] *Togas* 4 ND has Engineering
[00:10] *dejon* but they could have it next turn, if they got it from GoW or Vox this turn (since both play after ND)
[00:10] *Togas* It does not show when we offer peace.
[00:10] *dejon* huh?
[00:10] *BigFree* Togas, do the 'fotify all' thing on troops in Zara using the horsemen as the active unit.
[00:11] *Togas* BF, explain what you mean
[00:11] *BigFree* Ok
[00:11] *BigFree* youmoved the horses there right?
[00:11] *dejon* oops, you're right - I don't know where my head was
[00:11] *Togas* of course
[00:11] *BigFree* leave one activated, then right click and choose "fortify all"
[00:12] *Togas* I have the Horsemen of The Father active
[00:12] *Togas* will do
[00:12] *BigFree* good
[00:12] *nbarclay* I think two units have to be unfortified for "fortify all" to be available.
[00:12] *Togas* done
[00:12] *nbarclay* But if one is active and "fortify all" is not available, it means the others all have "fortify" instructions.
[00:13] *BigFree* "fotify all" was avaialbe to me
[00:14] *nye* because none of the attacking mi have the fortify command, till you fortify all
[00:14] *nbarclay* Right. As long as a "fortify all" hadn't already been done, the option would be available.
[00:14] *nye* it may make a difference, i will be testing to see if what soren said so long ago is still true
[00:14] *Togas* anyhow, any other changes to the posted orders?
[00:14] *Togas* any suggestions? questions?
[00:14] *BigFree* 12 RP is still 'average' to ND
[00:15] *dejon* I just have to make one galley order change Togas - doing it now
[00:15] *nbarclay* Let me take one last look over the orders, if you don't mind.
[00:15] *nye* leave salamanca with one pike?
[00:16] *Togas* sure, I'll wait.
[00:16] *nye* although, i think it unlikely they will dash to the south after jest being handed a bloddy nose
[00:16] *dejon* We built walls in salamanca, may as well defend it
[00:16] *nye* there is one pike, yes?
[00:16] *BigFree* yes
[00:16] *nye* another south of there?
[00:16] *BigFree* one pike
[00:16] *nbarclay* No suggestions for further changes from me.
[00:17] *asleepath* so leave the iron deposit as is and no move on leon this turn?
[00:17] *BigFree* nye: there's a pike 8-8 of valencia
[00:17] *dejon* Where was the Spear 77 from Salamanca going?
[00:17] *asleepath* it cut the road last turn
[00:17] *BigFree* Most likey to Pamplona for upgrade
[00:17] *nye* back the road with hill
[00:18] *asleepath* yes, good
[00:18] *BigFree* We should pillage the Iron now
[00:18] *nbarclay* ND has no viable way to cut off Salamanca from reinforcements.
[00:18] *Togas* he's an excellent observer
[00:18] *nye* one pike from pamplona to salamanca might be prudent
[00:18] *nye* so it is there and fortified if and when they top that rise
[00:19] *BigFree* true
[00:19] *Togas* Do I pillage Iron?
[00:19] *BigFree* though they cant attack it in one turn from their current position
[00:19] *nye* togas, the spear could pop back up there any turn you want to peak
[00:19] *nbarclay* NYE's idea is to have an extra unit already fortified if they attack.
[00:19] *BigFree* yes, pillage the Iron to prent them from building Pikes
[00:19] *dejon* Salamanca doesn't have much mil. value
[00:19] *nye* they cannot kill it behind the ridge
[00:20] *nye* dejon, salamanca is the key to the south. if nd ever realise it
[00:21] *Togas* 4 Iron Road cut
[00:21] *BigFree*
[00:21] *Togas* though it pains me to cut a road with such history.
[00:21] *nye* i can imagine
[00:22] *Togas* We have a spear and a pike 2-3 of Vigo
[00:22] *Togas* keep both there fortified?
[00:22] *BigFree* BTW, where does GoW troops show up on GS'es radar?
[00:22] *BigFree* Togas; I would move Pike 4 and cut that road next turn
[00:23] *asleepath* bilbao 77 last turn
[00:23] *dejon* Togas, guess so - they're there for bait
[00:23] *BigFree* thanks asleep
[00:23] *nbarclay* BF, are you talking about troop strength, or location?
[00:23] *BigFree* The road at Vigo 2-1 should be cut
[00:23] *dejon* BF - do you think ND is going to rush a temple?
[00:24] *Togas* Dejon -- move a unit to gems or not?
[00:24] *BigFree* Location Nbarclay
[00:24] *BigFree* dejon: they may
[00:24] *BigFree* I know I miight
[00:25] *dejon* even if they grow Vigo, they have to connect these cities with the rest of ND again too - there's plenty of other points for us to cut later
[00:25] *nbarclay* Fourteen riders 7-7 from Bilbao. No other GoW forces in sight.
[00:25] *Togas* that's their army, even their galleys on the east coast have moved north
[00:25] *BigFree* dejon: the reason is to prevent them from getting units to the South of Spain to quickly
[00:25] *Togas* The Pinta has been looking for a fight, and had no luck
[00:26] *dejon* however, moving to the gems may encourage them to take the bait of those two, so it might be a good idea anyways
[00:26] *Togas* I'll move the pike...
[00:26] *Togas* ah ha!
[00:26] *Togas* 4 ND ships sighted!
[00:27] *BigFree* Does anyone else get the impression that GoW is pussyfooting it?
[00:27] *Togas* they are 1 1 1 from Vigo
[00:27] *dejon* BF- we'd have to pillage S of Vigo to make a difference on their speed to distant southern spain
[00:27] *BigFree* that one road 1-2 of Vigo also delays them
[00:28] *dejon* Do you think ND would put Ansars on those boats to go ravage southern Spain?
[00:28] *BigFree* possibly
[00:28] *dejon* they had the roads to get on them
[00:28] *BigFree* they are three turns from Sevilla
[00:29] *Togas* they could change their mind if they believe we have a strong northern army.
[00:31] *Togas* 4 where to move the Madrid workers?
[00:31] *nbarclay* Are you planning to post something about the success of your glorious crusade on the public forum?
[00:31] *BigFree* we definatley should
[00:31] *Togas* absolutely
[00:31] *nbarclay* What's the status of getting a second source of spices hooked up?
[00:31] *dejon* Did you guys still want a road at NM 9?
[00:32] *Togas* 2nd spice ... glad you mentioned it.
[00:32] *Togas* We need to make that a priority in the south.
[00:32] *Togas* in 2 turns we can have 3 workers on it
[00:32] *nye* yes, togas. nm9 is a very good tile to have a road on, nathan?
[00:32] *Togas* 4 Castor & Pollox moved to New Madrid 9
[00:33] *nbarclay* I wish you'd waited a little longer, if there's anything else useful the workers might do.
[00:34] *Togas* 4 The Isabella (galley) moves 9 9 and stops there to not interfere with GS movement
[00:34] *dejon* aargh -no!
[00:34] *dejon* damn
[00:34] *Togas* ??
[00:34] *dejon* I edited that order
[00:34] *Togas* what is new order?
[00:34] *dejon* 98
[00:34] *Togas* I have 1 move left
[00:34] *Togas* can move to 8 if needed
[00:34] *dejon* move inland please
[00:34] *Togas* will do
[00:34] *nbarclay* Thanks.
[00:35] *nbarclay* The original order interfered with where I wanted to unload our settler from.
[00:35] *Togas* done
[00:35] *dejon* sorry for the aargh - I forgot we'd only used 2 move points.
[00:35] *nbarclay* If Togas had hit the space bar to end the ship's movement, the aargh would have been completely warranted.
[00:36] *Togas* 4 Pinta sighted GoW ships to the northwest
[00:36] *Togas* they are 9 of the eastern gems
[00:36] *dejon* please refresh your browser, btw Togas (to catch any other edits)
[00:36] *Togas* seem to be headed home
[00:36] *dejon* we'll catch em!
[00:37] *nbarclay* Pinta will chase them right into the grip of Santa Maria, right?
[00:38] *BigFree* yep
[00:38] *Togas* right
[00:38] *Togas* all galleys done
[00:38] *nbarclay* Are the GoW galleys both regulars?
[00:38] *Togas* yep
[00:39] *BigFree* what do you think about rushing a Pike in Merida(central Spain) that would be done otherwise in 3 turns for 32 gold. I would want him to head south to intercept any Ansar attacks on Sevilla.
[00:39] *Togas* The only unit left to move are the Republican Volunteers (spears) near Salamaca
[00:39] *Togas* either move them 3 or fort them
[00:39] *dejon* no
[00:39] *dejon* saving money for Knights
[00:40] *Togas* Move spear or Fort?
[00:40] *dejon* move 3
[00:40] *nye* 32 to rush a vet?
[00:40] *BigFree* no, a reg
[00:40] *Togas* reg
[00:40] *nye* oh
[00:41] *nye* damn if they get loose in the south
[00:41] *dejon* BF - it's a decent rush, but we have to conserve for Knights.
[00:41] *BigFree* well, what do we conserve for if we have nothing left, its a gamble ewither way
[00:42] * asleepath thinks another reason to move on leon soon
[00:42] *Togas* shall we move any units south?
[00:42] *Togas* out of Pamplona?
[00:42] *Togas* we will be "teleporting" another pike and inf to Pamp next turn with the Madrid gifting
[00:43] *BigFree* We will also be losing 20 gpt from NM
[00:43] *nye* a couple of mi might not be a bad idea. to be able to deal with the marauders
[00:43] *BigFree* luckily we make 39gpt
[00:43] *Togas* we need to conserve cash in anticipation of knights
[00:43] *BigFree* I know
[00:43] *Togas* after we get chiv and do upgrades, we rush as needed.
[00:43] *dejon* yeah, but it hinders our ability to launch any attacks of our our
[00:43] *BigFree* I'm just bringing up how much we lose this turn
[00:44] *dejon* I guess we should send some defenders south from pamp
[00:44] *dejon* maybe 2 pikes and an MI?
[00:44] *Togas* 4 Pamplona builds pike or horse?
[00:44] *dejon* hmm
[00:44] *BigFree* Pike
[00:44] *BigFree* we cant afford upgrades now as it is
[00:44] *asleepath* I would go for Mi, personally
[00:44] *dejon* It's not looking good for upgrade costs
[00:45] *nbarclay* How many shields per turn does Pamplona produce?
[00:45] *asleepath* but I have no idea of the production capacity
[00:45] *BigFree* 11 shields
[00:45] *BigFree* Pike material
[00:45] *Togas* in 4 turns it will be up to 14
[00:45] *dejon* BF - thanks for reminding us that losing NM for 2 turns will hinder our upgrade cash more - maybe we should just rush that Pike
[00:45] *nbarclay* Hits 14 on the fourth turn?
[00:46] *BigFree* from now, yes
[00:46] *Togas* will grow and mine will be ready by then.
[00:46] *nbarclay* If that's true, building a pike and then switching to MedInf production would be perfect.
[00:46] *Togas* 4 pamplona switch to pike
[00:47] *dejon* switch Zara to Pike too please
[00:47] *BigFree* Zara is at 9 shields per turn
[00:47] *dejon* horses will cost us too much
[00:47] *nbarclay* No way to get it higher right now, I suppose?
[00:47] *dejon* wait for knights
[00:47] *BigFree* if we removed the ND Mi, we could get 10
[00:48] *dejon* we need to adjust the Zara WF, btw
[00:48] *nbarclay* But only until they put something else on the tile.
[00:48] *BigFree* true
[00:48] *Togas* already adjusted Zara WF
[00:48] *dejon* okay
[00:48] *Togas* to use the forest/game
[00:48] *nbarclay* WF?
[00:48] *dejon* workforce
[00:48] *nbarclay* Ah.
[00:48] *dejon* SPDG lingo
[00:49] *Togas* unfortunately Z makes 9spt with ND on that tile.
[00:49] *Togas* we lost 1 to corruption
[00:49] *BigFree* make a taxman with the extra pop in Zara
[00:49] *BigFree* no need to work jungle
[00:50] *BigFree* we dont need pop to drop now
[00:50] *Togas* no taxman
[00:50] *Togas* w/o taxman we have 20 commerce
[00:50] *Togas* with taxman we have 18
[00:50] *BigFree* but, if we work jungle we risk dropping pop to 6 and losing defense bonus
[00:51] *dejon* Do you have to be working the jungle have disease risk?
[00:51] *BigFree* and you only lose one commerce doing so
[00:52] *Togas* does anyone know if there is a realistic chance of disease if we do this?
[00:52] *BigFree* the 18 with a taxman, doesn't count the one commecre from the taxman
[00:52] *Togas* we have worked the Santiago jungle tiles for centuries and never had disease
[00:52] *Togas* We have never suffered from disease in our long history
[00:52] *BigFree* I had disease in our FAM 2 game
[00:52] *BigFree* I lost 3 pops
[00:53] *dejon* I didn't think the WF assignment mattered, only whether you had disease tiles in your borders. But I don't know for fact.
[00:53] *Togas* true, the taxman adds 1 commerce, so our net commerce is -1 with him
[00:53] *BigFree* nye?
[00:53] *BigFree* can you confirm working a jungle tile gives a city risk for disease
[00:53] *nye* you risk disease if you work the tiles
[00:54] *nye* we got disease 3 times in eots, from flood plains
[00:54] *BigFree* ouch
[00:54] *nbarclay* BF, was your disease in that game this far into it, or was it earlier?
[00:54] *BigFree* it was in the very begiining
[00:54] *BigFree* Like about 15 turns into it
[00:54] *nbarclay* It seems to me that disease is a whole lot worse in the early game than it is farther on.
[00:54] *dejon* ouch. I've had disease maybe 3 times in ALL my civs games, SP and MP
[00:55] *nbarclay* In this game, GS got hit with disease in our capital three times relatively early.
[00:55] *BigFree* It's not worth the risk for one commerce IMO
[00:55] *nbarclay* But we've been working a much higher number of flood plains for the last few centuries and no disease at all.
[00:55] *nbarclay* I think you'd be pretty safe.
[00:55] *Togas* advice? Is it worth the VERY slim chance of disease for us to have +1 commerce? (and half the growth)
[00:55] *Trip* knock on wood :P
[00:55] *BigFree* If we lose on e pop we lose 50% defense bonus
[00:56] *dejon* I guess we're lucking Leon never had disease
[00:56] *nbarclay* And note that the difference isn't just one commerce. It's also one food per turn toward growing your next pop point.
[00:56] *nye* togas, the question is, is the 1 gold worth the risk of the loss of the 50% defense bonus?
[00:56] *Togas* Leon and Santiago both never had disease. God looks favorably on Spain
[00:56] *Trip* *ACS_MarkG* server reboot in a couple of minutes!
[00:56] *Togas* damn!
[00:57] *BigFree* Nbarclay, we have no tiles to work for that extra pop anyways, its rather useless to grow
[00:57] *dejon* vite vite!
[00:57] *Trip* to undernet!
[00:57] *Togas* before we go
[00:57] *dejon* we're almost done no?
[00:57] *nbarclay* Will you have extra tiles when you get your cities back?
[00:57] *Togas* BF & NYE say taxman, yes?
[00:57] *BigFree* yes
[00:57] *Togas* Dejon, your take?
[00:57] *nbarclay* In any case, it doesn't make a huge difference one way or the other.
[00:58] *dejon* I say work the jungle
[00:58] *nbarclay* (Unless you do get hit with disease.)
[00:58] *Togas* nbarclay seems in favor of present WF
[00:58] *nye* togas, you city, your call
[00:58] *dejon* I want knights
[00:58] *Togas* actually, the City once belonged to the Dejon family
[00:58] *Togas* before it was given to the Church ...
[00:58] *BigFree* at one commerce dejon, you get little help from the jungle
[00:58] *dejon* it's been in Aidun's hands longer than mine
[00:58] *dejon* true BF
[00:58] *Togas* and it's now in my hands with the emergency war powers
[00:59] *dejon* pacify the conservatives, taxman
[00:59] *Togas* taxman it is.
[00:59] *dejon* we'll rack the points now and make a truly daring and risky move later
[00:59] *BigFree* I will set up MilOps cahnnel on Undernet
[00:59] *dejon* :P
[00:59] *Togas* 4 all posted orders done
[00:59] *BigFree* ok
[00:59] *Togas* 4 all city WF and builds checked
[00:59] *BigFree* no need for channel then
[00:59] *dejon* diplo done?
[00:59] *Togas* not yet
[00:59] *dejon* luxes, tech
[01:00] *Togas* will do diplo now
[01:00] *BigFree* gift city to GS and give the one lux we have
[01:00] *Togas* will give lux, tech, wb, madrid
[01:00] *BigFree* plu all gold
[01:00] *Togas* and all gold...
[01:00] *BigFree* whats wb?
[01:09] * Disconnected
Session Close: Sun Jul 27 01:09:20 2003
Comment