Game Discussion IV

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by DeepO
we underestimated VoX's research power (at least I did)

Never underestimate the power of Vox ...

And what's with this, Beta? You turning traitor on us? Shall we bring out the Wet Noodle???

[vondrack]

Originally posted by DeepO

having such a nice landmass for ourselves, we knew it was impossible to stay out of wars forever. The whole industrial era has been very understandable and your combined research efforts and the eventual attack were much expected. We actually started getting ready for the war on the turn you went strong vs. us.

In hindsight, this was a bit late. We tried to camouflage it for as long as possible. It's only when we couldn't keep our defense of spears anymore that we started to upgrade, and doubled our power over the course of a few turns. It really was fear that has driven us to come out hiding. We could have mobilized only a few turns later, but in that case we would have been too early, and our tech pace wouldn't have kept up.

It seems to me that most of us missed a right moment or two... we were sort of happy to build stuff and kinda did not think of the war to come, since it seemed to be so far into the future. It was only you going strong that got me worried and made me ring an alarm in Lego. It might have been too late, but even if we had started few turns before, the situation wouldn't be all that different from what it is now, I believe. The most important thing was we slowed our research for about 2t, IIRC, upgraded our military (mostly arty), and started threwing much more into the military production.

Alas, in hindsight, it was still not enough - our military, even though sort of ready, is still kinda dwarfed by your combined forces. I was overly optimistic seeing how we get closer and closer to tanks...

Originally posted by DeepO

We did our best, that's true, but speaking of "almost catching up" is a wee bit of exaggeration, is it not?

I'm not sure if you know how close you actually are. You're still doing 4-turn research, right? Normally, you should have been invaded 1 turn before getting tanks. Now, it's 3 or 4 turns after. Your economical power simply is too big. We had a very narrow margin of invading you, and I've got to say we missed that margin by 1 or 2 turns. Not our fault, it's just that you were too fast. And we underestimated VoX's research power (at least I did)

I kinda agree that you missed the right moment. Had you invaded, say, 10 turns earlier, with half your forces, it would have been much worse for us that it is now (yes, even worse than it is now). We'd probably be already dead by now.

Originally posted by DeepO

And btw... we did be on a giving end of a gang-bang, even if we did not get to actually fight. What we did to you in the Great Bobian War was a gang-bang, no less. It didn't feel any great, since from the very moment we joined GoW and ND, it was pretty much 'war over'. Yet we felt we had to do it.

Mja... I can't agree with you here. This was said too a couple of months ago, when we were discussing the Bobian fiasco. We overestimated RP's defensive power, but still did our best to get you involved on the 'right' side. You misunderstood the extent to which we were willing to go, and faced the other direction. That alone disturbed the balance. Actually joining the other party made it a gang bang for sure. It broke us, and no matter the outcome of this war, we will never recuperate. We are doomed to stay small.

Note the word "felt" in my post... Only future will tell whether it was a good or bad move on our part (and maybe not even the future). It's impossible to say what the world would look like had we stayed out of the Great Bobian War, or even joined/supported you & RP... though I'll grant you we most probably misunderstood the extent to which you wanted to expand onto Bob. Ya'know, it's difficult to believe that "you'd only want 3-4 cities". Even if you honestly meant it, there was no way we could have believed that without acting like fools actually...

Originally posted by DeepO
I think you are still doing a bit of wrong analysis. There were IIRC 2 or 3 turns, after the Bobian war, when we were ahead in production. Right when we built Hoover (and, if I dare to say, also due to extremely efficient RRing), and the first turn of mobilization (with all our cities having factories). We very quickly felt to 4th place. Not 2nd as you might think, not third, but 4th. We knew this was going to happen, but in mobilization, while we should be ahead of all of you because of our focus on workers, factories and Hoover... it amazed us. Your production power has been double ours for a while now, if you straigthen out the comparison (meaning mobilization everywhere).

I knew that getting into this little chit-chat could gain us some new information... I have to honestly say that what you are saying is MAJOR news for us. We have always assumed it was you being the big guy (yeah, sorry, MZ, you just don't get the respect you rightfully deserve ...and ND must have been laughing at many a statement from Lego, too ) - because of the Hoover and all. And frankly, it is only now that the numbers make sense. Note to self: when your numbers seem to be slightly off , don't be lazy and investigate deeper.

Originally posted by DeepO
You all laughed when we said a couple of turns ago that we're the 4th, minor power. In reality, this has been true for a long while. It's only extreme focus which gave us the strongest army... at the expense of quite a few other things. This very well might be our final moment, and we decided to make it a glorious one. Now if only you'd like to cooperate a little...

Hm. I guess we (Lego) have a lot of thought food for today...

[Darekill]

I knew that getting into this little chit-chat could gain us some new information... I have to honestly say that what you are saying is MAJOR news for us. We have always assumed it was you being the big guy (yeah, sorry, MZ, you just don't get the respect you rightfully deserve ...and ND must have been laughing at many a statement from Lego, too )

Well we did not laugh but we were not too angry either

[notyoueither]

These mist covered mountains
Are a home now for me
But my home is the lowlands
And always will be
Some day you’ll return to
Your valleys and your farms
And you’ll no longer burn
To be brothers in arms

Through these fields of destruction
Baptisms of fire
I’ve watched all your suffering
As the battles raged higher
And though they did hurt me so bad
In the fear and alarm
You did not desert me
My brothers in arms

There’s so many different worlds
So many differents suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones

Now the sun’s gone to hell
And the moon’s riding high
Let me bid you farewell
Every man has to die
But it’s written in the starlight
And every line on your palm
We’re fools to make war
On our brothers in arms

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by vondrack
I knew that getting into this little chit-chat could gain us some new information... I have to honestly say that what you are saying is MAJOR news for us. We have always assumed it was you being the big guy (yeah, sorry, MZ, you just don't get the respect you rightfully deserve ...and ND must have been laughing at many a statement from Lego, too ) - because of the Hoover and all. And frankly, it is only now that the numbers make sense. Note to self: when your numbers seem to be slightly off , don't be lazy and investigate deeper.

Yes well our "puny rotten empire" which Trip loved to laugh about before surged to #1 in manufacturing quite a while before we even mobilized, it was quite a surprise when we went from 3rd to 2nd a long long time before and especially once we reached 1st. Personally I had no idea we could ever beat Lego in manufacturing until we estimated your numbers using WF changes and realized you guys were not as strong in that regards as we thought and that we still had a lot of factories and coal plants to build. Once we mobilized we got an even bigger boost. We also got to 2nd place in GNP occasionally but were generally 3rd or 4th. Still, it was our manufacturing which made the difference considering especially how we kinda really sucked at building before

This was also done thanks to not spending a single shield on defense during all that time just counting on our Cavalry army which was during all this time quite huge. Once again good diplomacy ensured we did not have to divert attention to spending on an army.

The downside to all this: my "team" is pretty much non-existant as everyone found the last 100 turns of building absolutley boring as hell. I could really use more active folks since I don't have all that time to dedicate to this little adventure as I would have liked before

[Hot_Enamel]

Originally posted by Master Zen

The downside to all this: my "team" is pretty much non-existant as everyone found the last 100 turns of building absolutley boring as hell. I could really use more active folks since I don't have all that time to dedicate to this little adventure as I would have liked before

But you were so good at it...
And we are so bad at it...

There wasnt much to say/do

[Cort Haus]

Yeah. c'mon Aggie - get down to Imperial City!

[vondrack]

You should have joined the builder team, MZ... building is boring as hell, but can still keep you mildly entertained if you are builder in your heart.

I am quite proud to say that my teammates are big help. Even if it may sometimes look like Lego is "that vondrack's team", it is in fact very different. Yes, I do most of the "dirty turn-to-turn work", but the feedback and ideas coming from Tiberius, Kloreep, Zargon, redstar1, lmtoops, and others are totally invaluable - those make the difference between what vondrack is able to be and what Lego is.

Proud to be a Lego.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Hot_Enamel

There wasnt much to say/do

You can say things like :

"We can afford to run a food deficit for 3 turns in XX using the mountain to shave a turn off that Marketplace, and letting YY use the wheat for earlier growth but short rush 4 shield on turn ZZ..."

[notyoueither]

You could

Put another chicken on the fire,
Cook me up some bacon and some beans,
Go out to the car and change the tire,
Wash my socks and sew my old blue jeans.
Baby, fill my pipe and then go fetch my slippers,
Boil me up another pot of tea.
Put another chicken on the fire, girl,
Come and tell me why you’re leaving me.

[Hot_Enamel]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


You can say things like :

"We can afford to run a food deficit for 3 turns in XX using the mountain to shave a turn off that Marketplace, and letting YY use the wheat for earlier growth but short rush 4 shield on turn ZZ..."

I have no idea what you just said.

[Hot_Enamel]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Yeah. c'mon Aggie - get down to Imperial City!

He made his first post the turn before we invaded.


Something to do with smelling blood in the air ...

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Cort Haus

"We can afford to run a food deficit for 3 turns in XX using the mountain to shave a turn off that Marketplace, and letting YY use the wheat for earlier growth but short rush 4 shield on turn ZZ..."

Nice, real nice.

I honestly don't know what the " " sign was supposed to mean.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by vondrack


You should have joined the builder team, MZ... building is boring as hell, but can still keep you mildly entertained if you are builder in your heart.

I am quite proud to say that my teammates are big help. Even if it may sometimes look like Lego is "that vondrack's team", it is in fact very different. Yes, I do most of the "dirty turn-to-turn work", but the feedback and ideas coming from Tiberius, Kloreep, Zargon, redstar1, lmtoops, and others are totally invaluable - those make the difference between what vondrack is able to be and what Lego is.

Proud to be a Lego.

I'm an insane diplomat at heart much more than a builder or warmonger, therefore GoW fit me perfectly. That should be all the more obvious given my contribution to the ISDG and the earlier part of this game

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Master Zen


I'm an insane diplomat at heart much more than a builder or warmonger, therefore GoW fit me perfectly. That should be all the more obvious given my contribution to the ISDG and the earlier part of this game

Hmm, so what GoW are actually going for ... is the DIPLO WIN!

Don't listen to him, Rhothy!