Area 25 : Tech Plans - Project lain

[Epistax]

When Bismarck rolls over us with panzers, and we fight back with sticks and rocks, I'll bump this thread.

[Apocalypse]

I'm planning on making a thread for you to vote on Projects either Wensday or Thursday.

Do any of you feel a poll is needed earlier?

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
I'm planning on making a thread for you to vote on Projects either Wensday or Thursday.

Do any of you feel a poll is needed earlier?

No -- no rush . Don't think things are going to be moving fast enough for it to matter.

-- adaMada

[Apocalypse]

The reason I want a poll out quickly is to get a better idea of what people want. Not everyone with an opinion of techs is posting in this thread. I am hoping a poll with force people to argue the various plans more.

[Apocalypse]

A more Detailed Review:
First, I will not switch from Feudalism. It will be researched until we buy it or are done researching it.

Here is another review of the various choices we have. With them I have questions that I would like everyone to answer if possible. They will help me get a good idea of what needs priority. Hopefully they will also guide along debate. The questions are posted at the end of each plan. They all will be posted at the very bottom of this thread if you just want to keep them in mind while you are reading through the post and want to more easily answer them while you are all done. If you have no opinion on some of the questions, that is fine. I would like your input on each question, even if it isn't for the project you support though. I do need one questioned answered before we start:
1. How important to you is the project that you support? Meaning, how upset will you be if your project isn't the one I decide on? Also meaning, will our civ fail if what you support isn't chosen?

I. Project Lain:
1. Feudalism
2. Monotheism
3. Chivalry

Project Lain should only be continued if you people find Knights important.
Questions I need answered:
1. Do you find Knights absolutely neccessary, ASAP?

II. Gunpowder Rush:
1. Engineering
2. Invention
3. Gunpowder

Monotheism is not included because it isn't needed for this course of action and I hope to buy it anyway.
The Gunpowder Rush will really only be usefully only if we want to continue our violent ways.
Questions I need answered:
1. Do we want to start another war shortly (up to 50 turns after)
after the French and assumed American war?
2. Is getting attacked a big risk, so will we need a force to retaliate?
3. Is the risk of not getting Saltpeter too high?
4. Even if it is certain we will not have Saltpeter within range to get it, is Gunpowder still worth it?
5. When we have invention, should we go after Leo's Workshop?
6. Will we even be able to go after Leo's Workshop?

III. Protocol Eiri:
1. Monotheism
2. Theology
3. Education

Protocol Eiri is really only Monotheism. It is mainly an agreement to go along the path toward either Democracy or Astronomy. If we really want to build up our infastructure, I believe this is the best choice.
Questions I need answered:
1. There are people who support the Democracy Rush and there are people who support the Astronomy Rush. Would you people rather have either one over Gunpowder?

III. A) Democracy Rush:
1. Theology
2. Education
3. Banking
4. Democracy

The Democracy Rush would give us some very nice techs. I feel this is the best way to build up our infastructure peacefully.
Questions I need answered:
1. Will we actually take advantage of the structures we can build with the Theology, Education, and Banking techs?
2. Will we switch to Democracy shortly after gaining this tech assuming we are not at war?
3. Will we switch to Democracy shortly after gaining peace if we are at war when we get this tech?

III B) Astronomy Rush:
1. Theology
2. Education
3. Astronomy

The Astronomy Rush would be so that we can get first contact with other civilization.
Questions I need answered:
1. What is the chance the lost civs will be discovered before we can contact them through this rush?
2. How great will be the rewards if we are the first to discover the lost civs?

IV. Monarchy

This is if we want to research it instead of buying it. I can also be if we want to research them half way and then buy it cheaper. Personally, I would just like to buy it.
Questions I need answered:
1. Should we even consider researching a govenrment?

A list of all the questions I need answered
1. How important to you is the project that you support?
2. How upset will you be if your project isn't the one I decide on?
3. Will our civ fail if what you support isn't chosen?
4. Do you find Knights absolutely neccessary, ASAP?
5. Do we want to start another war shortly (up to 50 turns after)
after the French and assumed American war?
6. Is getting attacked a big risk, so will we need a force to retaliate?
7. Is the risk of not getting Saltpeter too high?
8. Even if it is certain we will not have Saltpeter within range to get it, is Gunpowder still worth it?
9. When we have invention, should we go after Leo's Workshop?
10. Will we even be able to go after Leo's Workshop?
11. There are people who support the Democracy Rush and there are people who support the Astronomy Rush. Would you people rather have either one over Gunpowder?
12. Will we actually take advantage of the structures we can build with the Theology, Education, and Banking techs?
13. Will we switch to Democracy shortly after gaining this tech assuming we are not at war?
14. Will we switch to Democracy shortly after gaining peace if we are at war when we get this tech?
15. What is the chance the lost civs will be discovered before we can contact them through this rush?
16. How great will be the rewards if we are the first to discover the lost civs?
17. Should we even consider researching a govenrment?

[Donal Graeme]

This thread is making my head spin round and round. I can't keep my opinions straight, with all of the info circling about. I say tthat we stick to Feudalism for now, and that after the French War, we decide what the future of our nation will be.

[Apocalypse]

I say not enough info is circling around. I want the best choices to come out on top. I'd like thoughts to get out there as soon as possible so we can plan it the best. I am also afraid I might not have time to do this a few weeks from now.

[adaMada]

I'll try to answer all of the questions you've laid out at another time, but I'll go ahead and answer the one I remember from reading your post and have an easy answer to.

Do we need knights?

Answer: Yes. If we don't have them, we won't have any effective deterrent force, and other nations will probably attack us when we don't cede to their demands because we'll be weak, especially as an offensive force.

-- adaMada

[Apocalypse]

Thanks for that answer.

I just view this as so incredibly important. It will decide what course we will take in the future.

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
Thanks for that answer.

I just view this as so incredibly important. It will decide what course we will take in the future.

I understand that this is very important , and agree -- it will decide our future.

Having said that, it will take more than a few minutes to do a list of ninteen questions, so it might take a days or two until replies start to come in. Today's especially busy when it comes to the game for me, since the Mini-game bidding will be completed tomorrow, and I just took on a Deputy Minister roll, setup for which occupied most of my time today.

Personally, I'll try to answer at least most of these questions within the next day or two. I understand your desire to get this done, and we spoke a few days ago in the chat about your long term plans for the science ministry, so I understand where this haste comes from. Just give us a few days (and keep this somewhere on the first page so we don't forget) -- feedback will come .

-- adaMada

Edit: I am very special, but I really don't need my name signed twice .

[Reddawg]

I think this thread has grown beyond itself; it's not longer a specific debate over tech strategy, it's an entire argument over the military direction of Apolytonia for the next many many turns. It's simply farrrr too early to decide all of these things yet; the war with France, I suspect, is going to be costly enough that a consequent war with America will leave our military drained... that, coupled with dealing with new territories, will leave us OVEREXPANDED AND VULNERABLE. An attack on America immediately after France is probably not the best call; and I for one think rushing to gunpowder makes more sense than a rush to chivalry.

[Apocalypse]

This thread is really just about the impact of these various techs. I want to get the results of these techs to be clear so that when the war with France is over it will be clear what our next action should be. I might start another thread about what people would like to do after the wars with France and America.

[Panag]

hi ,

with a republic we have more money , so we can spend some more on science , ...

some-one should make calculations on that , ...

have a nice day

[Shiber]

We've made the calculations already.
Republic means no free support. No free support means we have to pay one gold per turn for each military unit. This means -41 gold per turn!!
Panag, the answer is strictly no. We will not switch to Republic at this stage. This has been discussed many times before and I don't think it needs repeating.

[Spiffor]

Does anyone know the precise impact on corruption Republic has ? It would allow for a precise calculation, not only of extra expanse (41 Lytons spent each turn in the military), but also on the extra income.
No doubt Republic isn't viable now (heck, we don't even have it); but it will certainly be worth, when our 3 luxuries are connected.