Area 25 : Tech Plans - Project lain

[Apocalypse]

First off, Area 25 is like the Apolyton equivent of Area 51. This is where we secretly research new things. It is reportedly located somewhere outside of Geofront.

Second, this thread does not exist.

Third, time ot talk about tech plans.

I am continuing the original plan for now:
1. Continue Researching Feudalism, buying it if possible.
2. Buy Monotheism.
3. Research Chivalry.

It has been the plan for over a while now so I decided to give it a name. It will be called "Project lain." I was originally going to call it "Plan Southern Hospitality" but I was thinking about it during mass today and realized "lain" had even more to do with our current position than referencing the southern virture of Chivalry.

Forth and finally, I want to get your input on what our next course of action should be. We will probably be able to buy Republic and Monarchy cheap once we decide for switch governments so there is no point in going after those. This is where the second yet unnamed plan may start. Right now I am proposing two options.

A. Gunpowder Rush:
1. Buy Engineering
2. Research (possibly buy) Invention
3. Research Gunpowder

B. Democracy Rush:
1. Start Researching Theology, but Buy it as soon as possible
2. Research Education
3. Research Banking
4. Research Democracy

I'm not advocating either of these plans yet since they are still a while away. I'm just putting them out there for your input.

[Shiber]

If most people support starting a building phase after the French war while we eliminate the Americans then why should we research Chivalry anyway?
I suggest the following: after the French war, invade America with whatever is left of our attack force (a few swordsmen and archers should prove to be just enough to take our America I believe). No need to research knights before we attack America IMHO.
In the mean time we'll be making our way towards gunpowder which will give us saltpaper (useful for production and trade. Just what we need for a building phase) and musketmen (another must-have for a building phase is strong garrison units in case we find ourselves under attack). This path could also lead us to navigation and the ability to sail the high seas soon and find the lost civs (I believe we all recognize the advantages of being the first to discover the "lost civs" by now).
Why not to research Democracy instead: currently our infrastructure is lacking. Some of our cities don't even have temples yet and only a few have a second structure, which is barracks. On the way to Democracy we'll get technologies that will enable us to build magnificent structures such as universities and banks, but we've got libraries, marketplaces and soon cathedrals to build first, so all the technologies on the way to Democracy (theology, education, banking and the printing press) will be virtually worthless to us until much later in the game.

[adaMada]

Another option (just throwing a thought out) -- we could rush for Calvary, and get everything else through Tech-trading... in my experience, the AI doesn't rush for Calv, so we could have it first, and techwhore to Democracy. If we do get Calv, then we'd be a huge military power, and could probably crush a decent sized enemy before the AI got it, especially if we built a lot of knights for an upgrade path once we had it.

-- adaMada

[Apocalypse]

Project lain was thought up over 10 days ago after talking to ministers. We may not need to go all the way through with it though. This is why I said "continuing the original plan for now." We could stop after Monotheism. It really depends on the situation we find ourselves in.

[Apocalypse]

These situations include problems with the Germans, Greeks, and Persians. Our relationship with those civs could change drastically in the next 20 or so turns. Though I believe the Greeks will stay friendly for now, I am wary of the Persians and Germans. We may need Chivarly to counter Immortals.

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
These situations include problems with the Germans, Greeks, and Persians. Our relationship with those civs could change drastically in the next 20 or so turns. Though I believe the Greeks will stay friendly for now, I am wary of the Persians and Germans. We may need Chivarly to counter Immortals.

I agree on Chivarly -- without it, we are a military non-force, and we'll be moving into a time where the AI stops REXing and becomes willing to start wars. I am curious though, if anyone has a copy of the tech tree in front of them -- what would it take to expand the Gunpowder rush to get all the way to Mil. Tradition (Calvary, basically). If we plan to have a massive conquest of our continent, having Calvary before everyone else does would be a real help, especially if we could crush a civ before people get Rifleman. Clearly, we could become very powerful by pursuing this strategy...

-- adaMada

[Apocalypse]

It expand it to Military Tradition the plan would be:
1. Buy Engineering
2. Research (possibly buy) Invention
3. Research Gunpowder
4. Chemistry
5. Metallurgy
6. Military Tradition

I want to limit plans to a max of 5 techs though so that would be an actual plan. The next plans would be thought up while researching Invention. Those last three techs would be part of a whole new plan:
1. Chemistry
2. Metallurgy
3. Military Tradition

[Apocalypse]

Keep in mind I will not go ahead with any miltary related tech plan that Uber does not support. I want to work with the military branch so we can coordinate.

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
Keep in mind I will not go ahead with any miltary related tech plan that Uber does not support. I want to work with the military branch so we can coordinate.

Yes, of course . Having said that, I've got a hunch that if you tell Uber that it's possible we can have Calv. first (perhaps one of the best military units in the game for it's time), and maybe do another upgrade plan so we can have lots fast -- I don't think he'd mind .

-- adaMada

[Apocalypse]

I might not support a rush to Calv though. At this point in time, military expansion is great. We might have carved out the land we want from Greece, the Germans, and Persia by the time we get Gunpowder. This is assuming we'll go with the "A" plan (I'll have a name for it later tonight, I already have a good one in mind, MWIA should like it). In the games I play I rarely go on a conquering spree. I usually just focus on culture. The main reason I haven't focused on that in this game is because we are in a bad position for culture.

I'm also going to listen to the citizens first and foremost when I make my plans. Along with Uber, I'll also take into heavy consideration suggestions from the other ministers.

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
It expand it to Military Tradition the plan would be:
1. Buy Engineering
2. Research (possibly buy) Invention
3. Research Gunpowder
4. Chemistry
5. Metallurgy
6. Military Tradition

I want to limit plans to a max of 5 techs though so that would be an actual plan. The next plans would be thought up while researching Invention. Those last three techs would be part of a whole new plan:
1. Chemistry
2. Metallurgy
3. Military Tradition

So basically (if we decide to go that route), then the plan would be split in two halves of three techs, so we don't find ourselves bound to a plan and have the global situation change on us?

-- adaMada

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by adaMada
So basically (if we decide to go that route), then the plan would be split in two halves of three techs, so we don't find ourselves bound to a plan and have the global situation change on us?

That is the idea, though I will never bind myself to a specific plan. It is just that 6 techs would be too many turns in the future. We could very well stop on Gunpowder and focus on something else. Gunpowder is a good tech in an of itself. There is also not too much point in going after Chemistry and Metallurgy if you don't then go for Military Tradition.

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
I might not support a rush to Calv though. At this point in time, military expansion is great. We might have carved out the land we want from Greece, the Germans, and Persia by the time we get Gunpowder. This is assuming we'll go with the "A" plan (I'll have a name for it later tonight, I already have a good one in mind, MWIA should like it). In the games I play I rarely go on a conquering spree. I usually just focus on culture. The main reason I haven't focused on that in this game is because we are in a bad position for culture.

I'm also going to listen to the citizens first and foremost when I make my plans. Along with Uber, I'll also take into heavy consideration suggestions from the other ministers.

You make a good point, and one very good reason to do the split plan you spoke of -- if we get gunpowder, and find that we don't need Mil. Tradition anymore, then we can just switch plans.

My personal feeling is this, though -- If we find ourselves without Calvary, and a nation should decide to go to war with us (who has Calv.), we'd be in a bad spot. That doesn't mean we should do the calv. rush, but we might want to keep it in mind before totally writing off a Calvary plan -- even if we decide we're done with war by the time Mil. Tradition comes around, other nations might not...

-- adaMada

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Apocalypse

That is the idea, though I will never bind myself to a specific plan. It is just that 6 techs would be too many turns in the future. We could very well stop on Gunpowder and focus on something else. Gunpowder is a good tech in an of itself. There is also not too much point in going after Chemistry and Metallurgy if you don't then go for Military Tradition.

I'm basically in total agreement with everything you say in this post .

-- adaMada

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by adaMada
My personal feeling is this, though -- If we find ourselves without Calvary, and a nation should decide to go to war with us (who has Calv.), we'd be in a bad spot. That doesn't mean we should do the calv. rush, but we might want to keep it in mind before totally writing off a Calvary plan -- even if we decide we're done with war by the time Mil. Tradition comes around, other nations might not...

If we don't get Calv first then it is probably because we decided to focus on infastruction. Focusing on infastructure would mean we have money. That means we would probably just be able to buy Calv.