Area 25 : Tech Plans - Project lain

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Apocalypse

We might need to sell some techs. You see, with putting resources toward science we won't have as much money. We may not be able to buy all the techs we want without selling the techs we research ourselves.

Yes, of course -- sorry for not being clear. Just wanted to keep the idea of not selling everything in mind. We should still sell most things -- just not the stuff that gwe've got a reason to keep (Mil. Tradition for Calv., Invention for Leo's Workshop, etc). Basically we should keep the stuff that lets us build a wonder or a really advanced unit -- everything else should be sold. (Also, when the first AI gets something that we were holding back for a wonder, we might trade it away then depending on which AI discovers the tech, since the advantage might be over).

-- adaMada

[Apocalypse]

I'm not the only one with power in tech trades though. My main job is just coming up with a plan.

Coming up with the next course of action might be pretty hard this time. The ministers don't seem to be in agreement.

[GePap]

I think the dem rush would be more useful than any rush to gunpowder. First, once we get pikemen, our defenses will not be very weak, plus, I think it is better to try to beat the enemy armies on the field and not wait until they are next to cities- and thankfully, the A.I. is not yet a skilled tactician when it comes to pitched battles.

Our swordmen will be enough to secure most of the Grand Basin, and to take most of Germany- once such lands are secure, an extensive period of internal development will be key- our empire will be the largest of all, and we will need the time to also make it the strongest.

Anyhow, I don't view tech-rushing as viable with out despotic government. We are relegious, so we can change govs. to our heartys desire. I say we buy the Republic from the Germans, or take it in war, and switch immidiately, as long as we are not at war.

[Shiber]

I'm afraid the Germans won't sell it to us. Not for a fair price, anyway. Of course we could always try to steal it from them using an embassy, but such actions cost a lot of money and sometimes fail, causing an international incident and giving super-aggressive Germany a reason to declare war.

[Apocalypse]

This is very difficult. I hope the ministers have some long term plans. You don't really have to convince me of anything. You people have to convince eachother. I am just here to see what is most need and then make plans on how best to achieve it.

Let us review

Project lain:
1. Continue Researching Feudalism, buying it if possible
2. Buy Monotheism
3. Research Chivalry
Supported by:
Aggie
MrWhereItsAt (through Monotheism)
adaMada
UberKruX

A. Gunpowder Rush:
1. Research or Buy Engineering
2. Research (possibly buy) Invention
3. Research Gunpowder
Supported by:
GodKing (through Invention)
Shiber
MrWhereItsAt
Aggie
adaMada
Sheik
UberKruX

B. Democracy Rush:
1. Start Researching Theology, but Buy it as soon as possible
2. Research Education
3. Research Banking
4. Research Democracy
Supported by:
GePap
Spiffor

C. Astronomy Rush:
1. Theology
2. Education
3. Astronomy
Supported by:
Donal Graeme
Epistax
Aro

Some also want to get a government somewhere in that time. It will be hard to fit it in. I'd really like to try to steal through an embassy

[Inverse Icarus]

Knights soon would be great

for long ranging goals i'd like militarty tradition. duh.

[Spiffor]

If we want our science minisrty to be useful, we shouldn't go for Plan Lain : we'll badly need a building period before going to any war (esp. with the Greeks) after the mopup of Americans.
If we don't, we won't be able to research by ourselves, in a time where tech costs get bigger and bigger (remember, we're still unable to buy monotheism, even if we offer our whole present and future treasury)

Since Education and Banking are in the way to Democracy, and universities + banks will be needed to catch back on our late, we should rush for Democracy, undoubtedly.

Knights are extremely useful in Civ3. But in Apolytonia, building knights will be contraproductive : the survivng AIs have some infrastructure (+ production bonuses) to outproduce our empire filled with corrupt, small cities. We are completely unable to keep up in case of a knight's war. Peace should be kept at all costs, because these costs wold be much lower than having the German / Greek powerhouse attacking us.
Now, the Immortal threat. Much less fearsome now, because we'll have spearmen (who have a slight advantage on immortals when fortified) to defend our cities, and our swordsmen will be good enough to counterattack the immortals.
Plus, Persia still has not Iron nor Horses, and is more theatened (by brits) than threatening.

I say we rush for Democracy, and forget about knights. Giving in to potential German demands will certainly be much less expansive than researching for chivalry. Techs aren't cheap anymore, and we can't hope to buy them for all eternity. We need education and banking as soon as possible, as much as we need some time to build our infrastructure.

In fewer words :
NO to project Lain
YES to Democracy rush (but we must continue to research feudalism : no need to waste bulbs and money).

[Shiber]

Just FYI, the costs of stealing Republic from Germany are as follows:
Immediately: 856 gold - low chance of success.
Carefully: 1284 - moderate chance of success.
Safely: 1712 - high chance of success.

Even with the money we'll get from my mapwhoring project, from selling currency to the Iroquois and by stealing from France's treasury when we conquer their cities we'll still need about 20 turns to amass such an amount of cash, assuming that we don't upgrade any more units, and by then Germany will probably offer us Republic for a better price.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Shiber
Just FYI, the costs of stealing Republic from Germany are as follows:
Immediately: 856 gold - low chance of success.
Carefully: 1284 - moderate chance of success.
Safely: 1712 - high chance of success.

Even with the money we'll get from my mapwhoring project, from selling currency to the Iroquois and by stealing from France's treasury when we conquer their cities we'll still need about 20 turns to amass such an amount of cash, assuming that we don't upgrade any more units, and by then Germany will probably offer us Republic for a better price.

We don't want Republic right at this exactly moment anyway. We have too many units and the upkeep cost would be too high. We would not want to switch over until after the war with France (and maybe even the war to finish off America). That is enough time for the price to go down.

[Epistax]

I assume the point of the astronomy rush is to make first contact with the other continent. This plan is risky but has nice rewards.

IF we make first contact, we can trade communications and WM's for every tech anyone on the planet knows. We might not have to spend a dime if we do things right, and we will gain much money.

We'd also have Universities following the plan, and could dive right into Banking and Democracy.


IF someone else makes contact first

We will have wasted time on theology, but could still be in line for democracy.


So, who wants to make a Civ-wide bet?

[Apocalypse]

Here is a new choice:
Protocol Eiri.

Since many people view Chivalry as unnecessary, and Monotheism being part of lain, this Protocol is to get Monotheism.

It goes like this:
1. Monotheism
2. Theology
3. Education

It is really not a Project in itself, it just continues where the termination of lain leaves off and brings you to the choice of either the Democracy or Astronomy Rush.

[Spiffor]

Protocol Eiri
(but I still think we must continue researching Feudalism until we can buy it, or until we completed it if the AI ran for something else).

[Apocalypse]

There is no way I am switching from Feudalism.

A, B, C, and Protocol Eiri are all choices after Feudalism.

[Aro]

Originally posted by Epistax

So, who wants to make a Civ-wide bet?

Astronomy rush for me!

[Apocalypse]

Right now I am viewing this as two options after Feudalism:
1. Complete lain and go onto Project A
2. Protocol Eiri and go onto either Project B or C

I would really appreciate it if you guys tried to convince eachother. I am probably not going to go against a majority.

I myself am not sure which to throw support behind. I see both the advantages in either Project B or C. I also don't think Gunpowder will be that useful as I doubt we have saltpeter. That Gunpowder Rush will get us Invention though, which is very important. If we go through with Project A, it is possibly I may cut it short after Invention if popular support wants it.