Announcement

**ThePlagueRat** · June 15, 2002, 17:13

As panag states above, a parliamentaristic role of a senate/parliament would fit to the best of the people...
Which persons should we then vote into this Polish reichstag?
A reprepresentative collection of organized parties?
Powerhungry hotshot individuals? The national brandy associaton? Well, I sense an awful lot of bueraucracy...

Anyway, there has to be a straight representation of the people, since a senate/parliament is the kernel of a modern democracy. Ok... an ancient democracy, however, did not need this kernel in the same degree.

**Panag** · June 15, 2002, 17:17

Originally posted by ThePlagueRat
As panag states above, a parliamentaristic role of a senate/parliament would fit to the best of the people...
Which persons should we then vote into this Polish reichstag?
A reprepresentative collection of organized parties?
Powerhungry hotshot individuals? The national brandy associaton? Well, I sense an awful lot of bueraucracy...

Anyway, there has to be a straight representation of the people, since a senate/parliament is the kernel of a modern democracy. Ok... an ancient democracy, however, did not need this kernel in the same degree.

hi ,

5 members , no political endorsement , just plane simple 5 senators , in every meaning of the word , ......

no power hungry people here , ......
and we have just have respect for each other , and the law , .......

have a nice day

**Panag** · June 15, 2002, 17:26

hi ,

president --- SENATE

vice president

ministeries

ADVISORS

PEOPLE

maybe this is an

have a nice day

**ThePlagueRat** · June 15, 2002, 17:27

Originally posted by panag

hi ,

a drunken one , all ready , sjeee , put him in the tank , ....wait a minute , where is the evidence , present it on the floor , or thou shall not speak bad , ....

max number of senators , 5

have a nice day

A drunken senator could be the only one to come up with such a horrible example! I think thats a good indication, though not hard evidence. I wouldn't care to pursue the matter any closer, since no one is elected for the Senate yet... (I sense there will be an awful lot of Reichtag-manners in this Senate...)

**Panag** · June 15, 2002, 17:30

Originally posted by ThePlagueRat

A drunken senator could be the only one to come up with such a horrible example! I think thats a good indication, though not hard evidence. I wouldn't care to pursue the matter any closer, since no one is elected for the Senate yet... (I sense there will be an awful lot of Reichtag-manners in this Senate...)

hi ,

well , the senate is a lose standing body of the government , created by the people , ......who are having fun at this moment , ........

, ....

no reichstag stuff is allowed in our senate , that would be against the will of the people , and the constition , ..

have a nice day

**notyoueither** · June 15, 2002, 18:34

BTW. Senate threads might be useful as the forum for any and all citizens to voice their thoughts on many aspects of our society, our government, and our progress. Might help keep down the number of miscellaneous threads, if that's a good idea.

**Panag** · June 15, 2002, 18:38

Originally posted by notyoueither
BTW. Senate threads might be useful as the forum for any and all citizens to voice their thoughts on many aspects of our society, our government, and our progress. Might help keep down the number of miscellaneous threads, if that's a good idea.

hi ,

excellent ,

and we could do a kind of "census" , ones in a while , ...

have a nice day

**Moral Hazard** · June 15, 2002, 19:11

A census?

**Panag** · June 15, 2002, 19:13

Originally posted by Moral Hazard
A census?

hi ,

yep , a "census" , .... a demographic collection of intel ,

, ahem read information .

have a nice day

**Moral Hazard** · June 15, 2002, 19:15

Of what (the people playing, the Civ game)? What on earth would we find out? And Why?

**Panag** · June 15, 2002, 19:24

Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Of what (the people playing, the Civ game)? What on earth would we find out? And Why?

hi ,

well , the census , lol , the info would be that really needed , as most can be collected from the SAV and so , jus , to see maybe ones in a while what people think , its the first time ever for a civ3game , so that information is really usefull to a couple people , ....always nice ....
and there would have to be an F-11 , .....

have a nice day

**Spiffor** · June 15, 2002, 19:33

If I understand clearly, the senate would be :

- a place for the most involved -but not power hungry- citizens to control the government.
- a place which states what the government should do, and where poeple there are petitioning the government.
- a place to think over the aspects of our society, etc.

Did I understand clearly ?

If yes, then the senate is utterly useless, because you don't have to be a senator to do this.
It appears everyone who wants it will access the savegame. Thus, evereyone interested will be able to control the government.
Anyone can start a thread to petition the government to do this and that. No law forbids a citizen to do this, and it's unlikely such a forbid ever happens.
There are already discussion threads about society : culture club, thinkers club... We can imagine other clubs ("bloodthirsty club" or so) coming. This happens before the game even started. And we didn't need senators to do this.

All the functions of the senate can be fulfilled by regular citizens. the very idea that these rights should be restricted to only 5 senators or so is awkwardly antidemocratic.

The only function I agree with is to check the regularity of the polls. Believing Gramphos' constitution, this power should go to the VP, but I grant you it's unsure, as this function has not been decided by a poll now. But I don't think we need a complete senate for this, maybe a "rules commission" of some sort, a kind of constitutional court.

Now, a bit of discussion about senates in the current real world. One thing is that senates / parliaments often have 100-700 people (US senate, European parliament). We have currently barely more than 100 citizens in our Democracy, so the numbers of our citizens fit an actual senate. As the demographic progression is always slower, it's unlikely we have more than 300 people at the end of the game.
A senate is not only maths... If direct democracy is not possible in modern countries, it's because there are too many people, and the highest authorities can't listen to all of them... Takes superhuman time. That's why this too big population needs people to represent it. On 'Poly, everyone can represent himself, without it being unbearable for the prez or his ministers.

As anybody here has direct access to his prez or his ministers, I don't see why we should take them this fundamental right, as a senate would mean for the people an indirect access to the true responsible ones.

It seems your idea, although generous in the principle, will turn antidemocratic when you weight the consequences.

Now, I might be wrong. If so, please explain me how a senate woud be more democratic than the direct democracy we have.

Edit : typo. A mere misspelled "it" became an offensive word

**Moral Hazard** · June 15, 2002, 19:40

and ***'s unlikely such a forbid ever happens.

What do t!ts have to do with this?

**Moral Hazard** · June 15, 2002, 19:42

I'm to quick for ya.

**civman2000** · June 15, 2002, 20:11

BURN IT!!!

POINTLESS WASTE OF TIME AND OVERORGANIZATION THAT RUINS THE GAME!!!!

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