The Korean Civilization II

[siredgar]

Just because you spend more money doesn't mean you have better education.

Every single study on the education level of students around the world states that American students are among the most poorly educated in developed countries. A recent poll found that over 80% of American high school students couldn't locate Iraq on a world map and they had extreme difficulty finding the Pacific Ocean (the largest single body of water in the world). Most could only locate two states in the U.S.-- California and Texas.

South Korea has a lower unemployment rate than the U.S.

High population density has nothing to do with education levels. Singapore has one of the highest population densities in the world (it is a CITY-STATE). But its students consistently score high on mathematics and science (#1 or #2 in the world, I believe).

There aren't really any significant suburbs in Korea because there is a clear definition between city and country. For example, Seoul has a green zone where you cannot build on the city's borders (to prevent overexpansion: there are already 10 million in the city limits!) and preserve the environment.

[King of Rasslin]

The disgusting thing here is that our unemployment rate is probably 10%. So many people have useless jobs for the government that are not needed. How far is South Korea in evil social programs and big government? High population density here is a bad thing- I bet you see bums on the streets every day, Siredgar! I don't see any around here.

As for education, I find it unbelievable that 80% couldn't find Iraq. At least 1/2 of the students should be able to find it. The Pacific Ocean example is hopefully proof that you are mentioning a flawed study.

The green zone is a good idea that we already have, we call it Montana.

[siredgar]

Show me where population density has anything to do with homelessness or unemployment. Sure, New York City has a lot of homeless people and I see at least half a dozen everyday anywhere I go. Anyhow, I'd much rather live in the exciting and yet dirty city than in the boring and yet clean suburbs.

But Hong Kong doesn't have as many and it's probably more densely populated than New York City. Seoul doesn't have as many homeless people either.

Anyhow, there are plenty of rural areas in Mississippi that have 30% or higher unemployment. I'm sure Georgia has its share of high unemployment, too, in some areas and it's not as densely populated as Delaware which has low unemployment, I imagine.

The South Korean government plays a big role in industry, banking, etc. which it is trying to reduce now. However, the government is not considered "big" as you see in a place like France. It does not provide meaningless jobs to people without work or much welfare either. That's why I believe the income tax rate there is only about 10% (from what I hear, not confirmed) as opposed to about 40% here.

Social programs are not "evil". South Korea provides free health care to all of its citizens and even foreigners working in the country. And yet, medical costs are lower there. Here in the U.S., you have insurance companies screwing the middle class and millions of uninsured people who could get terribly sick and not get treated. Health care costs are going to consume this country before you know it and the insurance companies won't have any reform if they can help it.

Can YOU, King of Rasslin, find the Pacific Ocean on a map? How about Georgia or Korea?

[Zero]

I saw that study too siredgar, except it was on yahoo news. Anyway, K.o.r, contrary to your stereotypical belief, not all of N.Y.C educational system is bad. Some schools have more problem than others (especially public school), while some are actually great schools. Bronx Sci and Stuy is in the city...

Also, it was a nice attempt to assume that the study was false because you assumed that Seoul students should do worse than suburban Korean students. First of all you totally screwed up when you assumed all of Seoul is city-like. I was born on the suburban sector of Seoul, so I'm livin proof.

Secondly, City gets more funding. So the analogy really doesnt apply. Schools in the city and suburbs are just as good compared to each other. Perhaps city may be better, I dunno, since I moved to Japan when I was little before I moved back to U.S. But I know that rural areas don't get equal educational system.

PS: siredgar, you should have been more specific. k.o.r might answer, "Georgia? I live there!"

and to k.o.r, siredgar meant a country named Georgia.

Here in America, there are plenty of good jobs out there so who needs an education?

Youre kidding right?

I can't imagine how high a Korean from the suburbs would score!

My niece is taking Calculus II in 10th grade, and even I can't even remember half the stuff from the class. (If anything is in my brain its because of calc physics) Sometimes I feel as if I'm called not to tutor her, but to make myself look stupid.

[King of Rasslin]

Free health care is a very bad thing! Look, the government would hire the cheapest doctors available if we had free health care. Those clinics that give free medical treatment are are better place to pick up a disease than to be cured of one! Doctors are much better here because they charge what they think they deserve. When money is at stake, they are going to be competant and not make as many mistakes or they will get sued. I would never go to a free doctor. Health care costs are very bad here, so we don't need our money wasted on providing it for free.

Now, I can find my own state on the map. Same with Pacific Ocean. As for good jobs, there is a high demand for jobs in many fields. Computer programmers and nurses, for example. You can get training for these jobs in just 2 years in some colleges, called technical schools. The concept is that a technical school teaches students practical knowledge that they will use in the real world, not trivial information like the capitol of Southern Lithuania, or whatever! As for Korean education, I have heard of college but not technical schools.

Calc, you must mean Algebra II in the 10th grade. I'm in the top group in my school and the toughest class they offer is Calculus in 12th grade! Do they group people in "elite" classes that will decide their future occupation options, like in Germany? Makes you glad to live in the land of opportunity...

[King of Rasslin]

http://www.chalkface.net/pagecopy/newsitems/news04.htm

Heres a short article complaining about bad inner city schools. Since I assume the inner city has a high population density, there's your proof that the suburban schools are superior. I don't see many articles about problems in suburban schools.

Strange that they mention class sizes- GA Tech has classes with 300+ students packed in an auditorium, but they do just fine! It's probably because inner city teachers aren't payed enough, why our students are so dumb.

[Zero]

Nope she is learning calc II (if not calc one.. really i dont understand why you learn integration in both one and two. US educational system is whack like that). Algebra is covered during three years of Jr. High. Actually this does kind of make sense cause even NY, I remember taking Algebra in 7th 8th grade then taking Sequential Math I and II as NYS law in HS (which is basically algebra aand geometry). The course is the exact same IMO, so why are we repeating this again I ask myself. And as to why I couldn't skip Sequential Math I in 9th grade because I couldn't do as well compared to others when asked those stupid puzzle questions but if I was fully capable of completing Seq 1 Math Regents exam right there, I would have passed it no prob. So I had to petition to skip seq 1 (annoying) and complete a summer crash session in order to. That's not my idea of great education, "land of opportunity" as you call it if they won't push the kids enough. They actually stopped me from going to higher math when I knew the material! Hah!

BTW, I live in the suburbs. The only difference I see from the city friends is that we have more funding, thus richer teachers and just about better equipment and programs. I say again. Not all city school is EQUALLY BAD. There are great ones (mostly private), okay ones and some really horrible ones. Sure if you compare to those really horrible ones, yeah we are better.

Oh and all university lecture is 70+. Lecture is SUPPOSED to be large. It is the recesitation class size that matters.

[Zero]

Originally posted by King of Rasslin
Free health care is a very bad thing! Look, the government would hire the cheapest doctors available if we had free health care. Those clinics that give free medical treatment are are better place to pick up a disease than to be cured of one! I would never go to a free doctor.

That's just typical jibba jabba taught in School. I was taught the same jibba jabba myself. First it sounds so right, and agree wholeheartedly, but you'll see that this issue doesn't really have a right/wrong side later.

Doctors are much better here because they charge what they think they deserve. When money is at stake, they are going to be competant and not make as many mistakes or they will get sued.

Hmmm ask yourself this: Why are concert ticket prices capped? Now do you think totally private business handling pharmeceuticals healthcare etc sounds like a good idea?

BTW who said Korea has free health care? How come when my dad watches those Korean soaps why is the popular story plot poor family not being able to pay medical fee? It's actually worse in korea since you have pay upfront instead of US policy of "we'll treat you without a question then charge you".

Health care costs are very bad here.

I'm not those free-health care loving losers that think we are being stripped out of our pants by healthcare, but there you go. You just strengthened my second statement.

[siredgar]

Well, it's not "free" but they provide "universal" healthcare to all. You just have to pay nominal fees for doctor's visits, medication, surgery, etc.

As for the report on U.S. students' knowledge of geography, that was on ABC News and CNN (as well as every other major news agency in the country).

Korean students do indeed have much higher mathematical skills than most any other country in the world. They consistently rank #1, #2, or #3 in the world. The U.S. ranks near the bottom of every comparison study.

[Purple]

I've come late to this thread, but a cursory review did not reveal the answer to a question I have:

Has anyone come up with an improved (expanded) list of cities and leaders for Korea? If so, will you point me to the message? Or list them here?

Thanks

[King of Rasslin]

How is Korean anime different from Japanese anime?

[Drake Tungsten]

How is Korean anime different from Japanese anime?

The characters speak Korean, not Japanese.

[King of Rasslin]

Ok...

[Drake Tungsten]

Now for something completely different...

Why are Koreans, particulary Korean-Americans, so touchy about the subject of dog-eating? It does happen in Korea and it is a part of the traditional cuisine. However, if you bring it up, you are automatically jumped on by every Korean within earshot.

I understand being upset when racist idiots use it as an insult, but I've seen people get attacked for bringing it up out of sheer curiousity. What's with the violent opposition to mentions of dog-eating? It's not something to be ashamed of; I actually find it somewhat interesting and wouldn't mind trying it someday.

[King of Rasslin]

I dunno. Why are Mormons so angry when I ask about polygamy? I'm not against it or making fun of them; I think it's a great idea!