The Korean Civilization II

[Zero]

Rasslin, you dont truly understand what martial arts is! I know this sounds like coming from cheesy kung fu master movie, but alot of people have a misconception of wat martial arts is. A more literal translation for english is 'Martial way'. Coming from a strong martial arts family and having wasted 16 years doing many kinda of arts myself, I have a pretty good understanding (kinda like baseball fan who understands the game but is not a professional himself).

There's no pointing judo even if you think it is far superior than any other martial arts because if your fat lazy person who never practices, it won't do you any good. Take it from me, there is no one superior art. If you want fighting skills, you can learn all by yourself and create your own style thru experience and kick all the master's ass. The reason why you may see more judo and jiu-jitsu is probably because its the most popular and therefore you generally get more contestants. Or at least airheaded ones. (UFC is epitomy of martial arts gone wrong!)

Martial arts is not about fighting as UFC so wrongly portrays. Thats show is like defecating on the martial arts value. If you want to learn to fight, you can do as above as I stated. Not even half of martial arts learning should be about fighting. And barely half should even be about training your physical body. However, since public who watches alot of kung fu movies and are appealed by the flashy performance of the artist, (this includes alot of airhead asians too) or the tremendous(?) workout potential invloved More and more school is just emphasizing the fighting part and not the training part or the learning life aspect. Well I can't blame them. The masters need to feed their children too and anyone who ever tries to seriously teach martial arts is gonna starve to death before he gets a determined student.

How can you tell a difference between kung fu, karate, tae kwon do and judo these days? Ever since they modernized, all the school basically adopted at least some portion of other schools style thus creating a "Jjam Bong" (Korean noodle dish with all kinds of crap tossed. When used symbolically means everythings mixed in). You want Tae Kown Do flashy kicks? I've learned flashy kicks from Judo! You want meditative style like taichi? I've done it in Tae Kwon Do! not to mention when I first used kendo sticks was in my tang soo do class!

And I repeat, doing 10 min a week on the ab machine is not gonna give you six packs. Most people don't take martial arts seriously and you can't expect to get results. Even when people do take seriously, very small portion have real idea what martial arts is about.

[King of Rasslin]

It's true that martial arts are designed to teach discipline and keep you healthy. Some martial arts are better at that and some are better for fighting purposes.

Think of it this way: our army is the greatest in the world, and it trains our soldiers in the best ways of fighting. They are taught wrestling and hand to hand fighting, but they are not taught silly martial arts. If you had a martial arts master vs a SEAL, I would definitely bet the SEAL will crush the fool in 2 moves.

No offence, but martial arts are for conditioning more than actual effectiveness. The UFC is martial arts gone bad because they are designed to teach you discipline and not to beat someone up. That's what wrestling is for. If you miss on a kick (which is very likely) you will be grabbed and tossed to the ground, and you will most likely lose. Talk to a marine and he will explain things to you very well.

Kung Fu movies are for entertainment, but you have issues if you think a real fight would look like that!

[Zero]

Originally posted by King of Rasslin
It's true that martial arts are designed to teach discipline and keep you healthy. Some martial arts are better at that and some are better for fighting purposes.

No its not.. Must I repeat my self over and over? Do you not understand the rock paper scissor lesson??? Or did you just play the game thinking rock was superior all the time since you can punch your friend if he throws out paper?

Think of it this way: our army is the greatest in the world, and it trains our soldiers in the best ways of fighting. They are taught wrestling and hand to hand fighting, but they are not taught silly martial arts. If you had a martial arts master vs a SEAL, I would definitely bet the SEAL will crush the fool in 2 moves.

Where do you think the hand to hand tactics came from? grappling and such? And do marines often kill their enemy bare handed, who also happen to fight bare handed? That is a dumb comparison!

I hate to burst your bubble but our army is not the greatest in the world. It certainly maybe great, and large but no where the greatest. Ask anybody with who served, I havent personally served but at least thats what my friends tell me. Seal is Navy. and its a special force. You don't have millions of those high quality guys fighting otherwise we wouldnt need an army!

AND I REPEAT AGAIN! There is no superior school of art. IT DEPENDS ON THE PERSON WHO MATERS THE ART. That goes with MILITARY TRAINING TOO!!!!!!!!!!! GOD Can't you see that??? This is making me sooooooo frustrating to explain!

Plus, what the hell is up with X VS Y crap? is that the only way you can think? How do you compare rock with scissor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE UNDERSTAND SO I DONT HAVE TO REPOST OVER AND OVER AGAIN

No offence, but martial arts are for conditioning more than actual effectiveness. The UFC is martial arts gone bad because they are designed to teach you discipline and not to beat someone up. That's what wrestling is for. If you miss on a kick (which is very likely) you will be grabbed and tossed to the ground, and you will most likely lose. Talk to a marine and he will explain things to you very well.

UFC is martial arts gone bad because UFC teaches discipline over fighting? Do you even glance over what you type? sheesh I hope you didn't mean that!

In addition, Wrestling is an approach to fighting, it is not a superior form of fight. I hope you understand this: GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD! If you've ever fought before nothing, NOTHING works like simply the way you're SAYING!

btw didnt I say in thelast post I kicked the $#!+ out of a guy twice as big as me using only left foot? he kept charging into me to grab my puny body so i kept pushing him with my left foot. He was toosed into garbage can, wall etc. Simple minded people are all too easy to frick over.
EDIT:Ok I didnt. I must have thought I said something I didnt...

Kung Fu movies are for entertainment, but you have issues if you think a real fight would look like that!

Well at least I'm glad to know that You know real fight isnt pretty like movies. But I didn't say it either so I don;t se why you are telling me this!!! (Most similar thing I said was I said many stupid people are awed by itand want to learn the flashy and fighting part over others.)

The GNP per capita of S Korea is about half of that of Japan, and S Korea has about 1/3 the population of Japan. Economically and power wise, do you think that Korea will ever compare to Japan?

This was from last 2 post ago, and no one answered so here it goes. I have no idea. I don't even know what you said is true or false. So obviously I have no comment

[Zero]

Originally posted by Calc II


Anything is not useful for self defense if you dont learn it right.
Living in US I see too often people complaining the ab machine doesnt work. You only use it 10 min a week! DUH!!!!!

Please stop 'which martial arts is superior' question it really sounds dumb. (hey which is superior? rock paper or scissor?)

Did you not understand this when I said it quite simply?

[King of Rasslin]

I mean, martial arts are designed for discipline, and that is why the UFC is bad for martial arts. Sorry for using bad sentence structure.

I forgot where I heard this, but 50% of fights are on the ground in 5 seconds. After 10 seconds, 90% of fights are on the ground. Skill with grappling is very important. If you only know how to punch and kick, you will have a hard time forcing an opponent to submit. This is why you need wrestling, to force an opponent to submit without seriously hurting him. Otherwise, a fight would last a lot longer than necessary, and those kicks can seriously injure someone.

A master of any martial art will have a decent match with any other master. But, unlike kung fu, wrestling doesn't take 20 years of vigorous training to learn. To an average person, wrestling and judo would be more appropriate than the more advanced martial arts.

[King of Rasslin]

There are many different kinds of martial arts. There is Karate Kun Fu, Kimpo, Aikido, Takwondo, Judo, Ju Jitsu, and many other kinds of fighting styles. Most of these fighting styles are over a thousand years old, and steeped in heavy tradition, mostly Far Eastern. What is the best and most effective martiThere are many different kinds of martial arts. There is Karate Kun Fu, Kimpo, Aikido, Takwondo, Judo, Ju Jitsu, and many other kinds of fighting styles. Most of these fighting styles are over a thousand years old, and steeped in heavy tradition, mostly Far Eastern. What is the best and most effective martial art?
I personally believe that it is boxing. That's right, boxing is the best and most effective martial art in the world.

Why is boxing more effective than traditional Asian fighting styles:

In this world, knowledge, and technology evolves over time into greater things. For example, when armies would go to war in ancient times, the most powerful and effective weapon was the bow and arrow. Now, in modern times, the most powerful weapon in warfare is the atomic bomb. As you can see, the knowledge of warfare, and technology has increased dramatically. The same can said about ancient fighting styles versus the more modern methods of fighting, because knowledge builds on knowledge over time. The truth is that ancient fighting styles like Karate Kun Fu have little effectiveness in modern day life. Sure, these old styles have their place, and are certainly effective somewhat. You might be able to defend yourself, if you caught the guy buy surprise, or he was drunk, but overall traditional martial arts are outdated. Let me give you an example, for those of you that have studied martial arts, do you remember how the instructors would teach you how to punch? You know when they told you to stand in a horse stance with your fists at your side, and then lunge forward; twisting your knuckles as you threw the punch. I'm sorry, but if you go into a fight doing that, somebody will just pop you with a quick left hook and you will be out of the fight. Don't be fooled into thinking that the little old Kun Fu instructor with a 3rd degree black belt will stand any chance, against the likes of Lenox Luis, Mike Tyson, or any other professional boxer. Tyson will kill the guy, even before he can reach for his sword, or Chinese stars. Boxing is a good example of modern fighting styles. If you want to be tough, and be able to stand your ground you need to work hard, like weight lifting, jogging, learning how to take a punch, learning how to deliver a punch, and most important, battling against an opponent, to gain experience. Boxing is the best example of this. Most of their pro boxers started boxing when they were just little kids, and worked hard for it. Two important things to being a good fighter are stamina, and being able to take a good punch. If you punch a pro boxer, he will just stand there and wink at you. Boxers can take punches better than anybody. If someone has trouble taking punches than he can't be a good boxer, a good fighter must be durable. The way that boxers are taught to punch is the highest and most effective way. Think about this, when a boxer is fighting 12 rounds against his opponent, he is fighting roughly an hour's time. You have to be tough, and in great shape in order to take punch and fight for an hour's time. Most martial artists train in the dojo without even breaking a sweat, and have little or no experience actually fighting, and they would never be able to take a good punch like a boxer can. And as far as kicking is concerned, when a man throws a kick, he sacrifices much needed balance, and is open to a devastating combo from his opponent. Kicking is usually not as powerful as a punch, because of the balance required, and the awkwardness. It is much more natural for the body to throw a punch, than to kick. The legs are to support ones balance, and balance is very important when it comers to fighting. If a guy throws a kick at you, you can easily grab his leg, throw him down, and deliver punches. If you look at the records of many pro boxers, you will find that many have 30 to 40 + fights under their belt. That is allot of experience, which is very important. Think about it, 90% of fighting involves punching, and is the primary weapon, and boxing is just that. Believe me, if 6"5, 240 pound Lenux Luis punched you in the face without his gloves on, it might kill you. Boxers can deliver a horrendous punch. Boxers are taught in the best methods of throwing, and dodging a punch. You don't just block a punch, like you were taught in Kun Fu, or Kimpo, you bob and weave. It requires great skill, talent, and top physical conditioning to be a boxer. In fact many pro boxers are in the best physical condition as humanly possible. You give me any black belt in the world, and I bet that Tyson will tear them apart in less than 20 seconds.


Conclusion:

I don't mean to sound negative towards these other forms of martial arts, but I am just telling the truth. These other fighting styles are more of a Far East tradition. Just like many other cultures, like the French, or the Italians have their own traditions, nations like Japan, China, and Korea, have a strong Martial arts tradition, which are steeped in mysticism, legends, and old Buddest teachings. Boxing is more practical, and more suited for modern day fighting. Forget about what you have seen in the movies, Jaki Chan, Bruce Lee, or Steven Segal have nothing on any professional boxers. Most of these actors have never been in a fight. Personally, I hate fighting. When I speak of fighting in this op. I mean it in a self-defense fashion. Lastly, I want to tell you that size really does matter in a fight. That is why there is weight classes in boxing. The Lakers Basketball star player Shaq could kill a man with his own hands. Sometimes the best way to win a fight, and defend yourself is to run. If you ever were to make Shaq angry, don't stand toe to toe with a guy that big, he will hurt you, and hurt you bad. No black belt will help you in a fight with Shaq. He is too big and too strong.

This guy knows his stuff. Boxing is an excellent way to gain power, speed, endurance, etc. After a few rounds of fighting, your opponent will be tired, and you can finish him with a good hold. Wrestling will only work on someone that makes a mistake and lets you finish him. After a while, when someone get tired in a fight, he will make more mistakes (and therefore more opportunities for you!) Boxers will have the endurance to last for a long fight, and grappling experience will finish the opponent. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is a great martial art, I have seen 180 lb guys beat 250 lb freaks! A BJJ master would have an easier time with Shaq than a Karate master.

All said, some martial arts are better in some areas than others. Judo experts will have very good throws compared to Tae Kwan Do, while the TKD experts will have very good kicks. Martial arts all teach lessons, but some are just more practical in a fight. I know that there are some other martial arts guys here that know what I am talking about!

[Zero]

Sounds more like an advertisement to me, since AS I SAID BEFORE there is barely any difference between karate, kung fu and kick boxing these days. DO you even READ my posts before you answer?

School of arts have plagiarized from each others like whores in modern day to evolve into this barely unidentifiable same sh!t style. This is not necessarily a bad thing since adoptation is required. But alot of uniquesness of school has been lost. The only difference I can tell from style to style is the logo hung over their dojos and lil bit of flavor of style added to barely tell the difference.

After a few rounds of fighting, your opponent will be tired, and

What the hell are you talking about? A good fight doenst even last 30 seconds! Yea the only way your gonna trade rounds of punches is if your hand is made out of cotton or your wearing apadding. Do u think even boxers wear paddings when they are in a serious fight?

take a good punch like a boxer can.

Apparently this guy has no idea wat he's talking about. Have you ever seen bareknuckle boxing?

If you're just here to create arguements to discuss then dont bother wasting my time. I have already explained pretty much everything to you that your are replying to. I don't see why I should be repeating over and over like a friggin parrot here.

and more thing: Wat did you not understand when there is NO superior form????? ITS NOT THE FU-KING FORM ITS THE INDIVIDUAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

[King of Rasslin]

Ok, let's go back to discussing Korea...

Anyway, there are 2 main forms of Tae Kwan Do, I read. One is the sport, which is in the Olympics. It isn't intended for real fighting. The older form was created by a general who wanted his soldiers to learn it, and it is a combination of many minor Korean martial arts. Here, the newer Olympic style is usually taught.

I would really like to learn traditional Tae Kwan Do, but it's true that there really are a lot of fakes out there. You don't have to have a heart attack, Calc!

[Zero]

Tae Kwon Do considers itself a sports federation. So you are right in thinking that its not like a typical eastern martial arts, its more like boxing and fencing.. its a contact sports with fighting element in it. So its not some are fake out there, they are ALL sports-like.

As for more traditional eastern martial arts type that originate in Korea, the ones I can think of on top of my head are HwaRang Do and Tekken. HwaRang was a military martial fighting practiced by soldiers in medieval era, so its more like similar to marine drills in defend themselves agst enemies when handicapped. Ironically, Tae kwon Do is known for its flashy kicks but when I saw some HwaRang Do trainees spar, they were amazing with flips and roundhouse kicks.

EDIT: Tae Kwon Do is the most organized federation than any other martial arts school I have ever heard. Doesn't necessarily mean its superior, but it means you have to be certified by comitee to have the name hung on your dojo, so you can't have a 'fake' tae kwon do school. (unless some school is illegally using the name). Or sometimes its just down right stupidity of people getting three most similiar type (Tang Soo Do, Tae Kwon Do and Karate) mixed up. My Tang Soo Do master gave up when customers just kept referring it to karate and just called it mater kown's karate or something like that. I'm sure that happens proll to other school to LOL. I personally prefer more localized school. Big corporation type martial arts just doesnt feel right for me.

EDIT: Tekken is another form i mentioned and didnt really explain about. As fa as I know, I know it as being originated from manchurian or korean peninsula, and it has been a very ancient traditional fighting style. Its form is quite unique as there is no stance or anything. Kinda looks like drunk guy whos bad at dancing if you ask me and prolly the guy who invented was bad at dancing. Whether if it has anything to do with tekken the video game I have know idea. I think thats jus conicidence or something diffeent that just sounds the same.

[Zero]

Originally posted by King of Rasslin
I mean, martial arts are designed for discipline, and that is why the UFC is bad for martial arts. Sorry for using bad sentence structure.

I forgot where I heard this, but 50% of fights are on the ground in 5 seconds. After 10 seconds, 90% of fights are on the ground. Skill with grappling is very important. If you only know how to punch and kick, you will have a hard time forcing an opponent to submit. This is why you need wrestling, to force an opponent to submit without seriously hurting him. Otherwise, a fight would last a lot longer than necessary, and those kicks can seriously injure someone.

A master of any martial art will have a decent match with any other master. But, unlike kung fu, wrestling doesn't take 20 years of vigorous training to learn. To an average person, wrestling and judo would be more appropriate than the more advanced martial arts.

1. Yes I said most fights not even go over 30 sec. I have cleared this part alredy. Thats why I said guy you quoted has no idea wat he is talking about.

2. You shouldn't take anything lightly, cause its "oh wrestling... its easier than kung fu" If you wanna learn anything right, it has to take years and years of sweat and effort. Ask any professional wrestler! Boxing isnt easier than kung fu nor is wrestling any easier than boxing. It doesn't work that way, its a bad conception that we as americans have, looking for easier faster lazier solution. I think I already stated this when I was referring to dumbness of americans and ab machines. True some may learn things quicker, some may get better result sooner than others, and for some kung fu may be more easier then wrestling and vice versa, but there is no such thing as plugging in a memory on the back of your head via matrix style (so far). That's a very bad way of thinking and I hope you grow out of that!

3. Most martial arts are meant to train the body and soul, then prolly the next most emphasized is to bring quick end to the enemy. (by death, dismemberment etc.) Some school emphasize submitting enemy just like wrestling as the ned to battle, like judo , akido and such. But all in all, all martial arts cover all ground to some degree.

[King of Rasslin]

I must have fallen victim to kung fu movies, since I have always thought that it takes years to learn kung fu, and a typical master is always 60+ years old. Boxing sure does look a lot simpler to me. It takes years to learn how to box, but there so much stuff in martial arts that I doubt if anyone can truly master them. How many famous 9th degree black belts do you know? But masters of boxing, like Mike Tyson and Lennox Lewis, etc, are very well known. It's because boxing isn't as hard to learn as kung fu! Boxing and wrestling are more like sports (Tae Kwan Do) but martial arts are more like lifestyles you devote yourself to, and you cannot really master.

[Zero]

Lennox Lewis and Mike Tyson is famous for their boxing skill BECAUSE they spent years and years of effort at honing their skill and they came to a point of performing well... it also probably helped that they may have had natural talent for the sport as well. But either way their career just didnt fall from sky and they said, 'ooh boxing thats not a bad living for me'.

Same applies to any skills, even something easy like biking. They are just simple sport and you may think everyone can "master" the skill of riding a bike or skateboard easily. Sure it may be eaiser than kung fu but thats because you haven't pushed your level of performance as far. one may have thought they were real good at riding a biycle, but wat do you see these days? Someone like Dave Mirra and Tony Hawk and other people who pioneered skateboard and BMX riding would make your riding bike with no hand on the steering wheel look like a joke. Me and my sports guru friends get to a habit of referring to Michael Jordan and Wayne Gretzky as simply the gods of their respective fields.. True we haven't seen anyone better than them and they are the best that we know, but they are not the limit simply because they are the best. When I used to train myself in martial arts I didn't aim myself as being as good as Jackie Chan or Bruce Lee, but for my own need to motivate to better myself. So, if you think Mike Tyson practiced lot less than 9th degeree black belt and are aiming yourself as Mike Tyson when your practicing boxing, sure your getting less effort needed to reach your goals when compared to practicing kung fu to be like9th fdegree master. But I doubt that Mike Tyson just sat around all day eating twinkies watching boxing and became a champ either.

Even though I made it sound like martial arts is alot different from sports there really is no distinction between them... For any sport at its highest form should be about having fun, learning discipline thru rules of the game, respecting others etc. etc. Not many take sports seriously though and either play just for fun or as way to satisfy their need to win (or for money in professional case).. I guess thats why martial artist didn't call itself a sport cause that would sound cheapening to the idea of martial arts, but these days martial arts is basically practiced for same reason sports is anyway (for fun, for need to win (fighting, or competition) and money)

[N. Machiavelli]

Without wanting to get 'in the way', I have a small question to KoR. Do you truly believe what you have said in the last 6 pages of thread, or has this been a large joke meant solely to enflame?

If it's the latter, I aplaude your patience and acting skills, for your 'commentary' has been entertaining. If it's the former, then I fear that it is because of folks like you that I must consistantly try to prove that the country much of my heritage is made of is *not* filled with ignorant bufoons.

[Drake Tungsten]

This thread is a disgrace to the original Korea thread. You should all be ashamed.

[King of Rasslin]

[quote] As for matial arts: I finally settled on a mix of Brazilian Ju-jitsu and ground fighting. Tae-kwon-do relies too heavily on acrobatics ... which are great if they hit just right, but not so great when the guy simply tackles you and starts a choke-hold ... [quote]

Well, Yin agrees with me, so I don't think we need to argue any further. As for Korean spending on education, they want to learn a lot because there is a lot of competition for good jobs there. I wouldn't want to be stuck carrying those water jugs on my back, either! Education is like a long term investment to them. I did notice that they have a lot of respect to their senior students, and the seniors like to help the younger students. They also tend to study (and date!) in large groups, and they study in strange places, like bars, sometimes. Alcohol is a serious problem in Seoul, apparently.