Which civ was the most powerful in all history?

[Rogan Josh]

I voted other. I think the British Empire had the most influence and most military might at its peak. I have no idea why it wasn't on the list.

China comes a close 2nd and the Romans in 3rd.

[YefeiPi]

If our influence is so small, then why you are in China still using communism as form of goverment?
How can it happens that so old and wise China once was penatrated by our socialist ideas and become a communist country?

First of all, communism is not your people's ideas. It originated from Germany and you guys copied it. Also, communism is exactly the reason why China was not doing well in the past decades, that's the biggest mistake China made. I guess the old and the wise makes occasional mistakes as well

[Blaupanzer]

Power = the ability to influence others to serve your interests. On this basis, the US today is the most powerful state that ever existed economically. (For good or ill, US corporations run the world.) If the real world were a Civ III game, the US would win a cultural victory hands down. (Again, a "culture" of blue jeans, rap music, and fast food may not be the most admirable of them all but liberated Afghans immediately ask about blue jeans and Coca Cola. May be contemptible to some, but it is powerful to the point of complete dominance.) And militarily, the presence of any weapons on a scale to enable the complete destruction of all human achievement in less than an hour belongs to only two states, the US and Russia. (An evil kind of power really, but very real.)

The question didn't ask who was the most dominant in their time, or who was the longest lasting; it asked who was the most powerful.

Worth noting that the US has the longest-lasting continuous political system on the planet today.

Also worth noting that if power were to equal spiritual influence that the Muslims would win hands down in terms of rapid spread and lasting effect. In that area, no European or European-born power since Rome adopted Christianity has had any influence at all.

[Dinner]

I voted for other; the most dominant power visa vi the other great powers was 18th- early 20th century Great Britain. One out of every five people were British subjects and the empire controled a full quarter of the earth's land area. Add that on top of Britain's HUGE lead in economic, scientific, military, and social situations and you see why Britain (nee England) was histories greatest power.

[Dinner]

I voted for other; the most dominant power visa vi the other great powers was 18th- early 20th century Great Britain. One out of every five people were British subjects and the empire controled a full quarter of the earth's land area. Add that on top of Britain's HUGE lead in economic, scientific, military, and social situations and you see why Britain (nee England) was history's greatest power.

[YefeiPi]

U.S and England are both pretty powerful, but England's peak was not long at all and declined and U.S is yet to stand the test of time.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Sun Zi 36


Um... yea, maybe they criticise it bcos USA exactly fails on those points? Yes no culture is immune to outside influences, everyone knows that. R u trying to say every culture is the same? If not, theres surely differences and degrees of differences between cultures. USA fails exactly on this.

Yes USA can influence the world more than other civs in the past. But I dont think that is how u would decide whether it's the most powerful in history. .

I don't see how the U.S.A fails, as you put it; countries as diverse as Great Britain (almost the 51st state under Thatcher and Major), Israel, South Korea, Australia, Colombia and Morocco want to be its friend, derive much of their culture from it, economic advantage from relations with it, ally with it in times of war...it's difficult to see how much more the U.S.A could do to succeed in terms of culture and power. If it chose, the globe could become a glowing irradiated uninhabitable ball. Not bad going for a country that people say has had a hard time defeating Iraq and Afghanistan. The point in military terms being of course, that the U.S.A. cannot afford to act like the Romans avenging the exploits of Boudicca; she didn't have to worry about Senate oversight committees, C.N.N. live broadcasts and public opinion. I see the U.S.A. and most cultures today as being like T'ang China in many respects; consider how faiths as different as Nestorianism, Islam, Buddhism and Mazdaism all penetrated T'ang China, gained converts, and yet ultimately China remained culturally China.
Countries such as Germany (with its large Gastarbeiter population) and the U.S.A. and France and Australia are all absorbing peoples and ideas and influences from around the world, but still without being fundamentally altered. Of course there are great similarities between cultures, but even countries as similar as the U.S.A. and Great Britain and Australia still remain fundamentally different.

[MrNett]

My opinion

I voted for the British Empire, because of the following reasons:

(1) The defacto world language is english
(2) No other civilization had so much people and land mass under its control (more than 1/4 of the world!!)
(3) The industrialization started at UK; one can say that the British Empire lead the world from middle ages to modern times
(think about steam engine or railroads!).
(4) The British culture still have a great influence today (music for example)
(5) Not every big corporation is from USA! Many global companies come from europe, especially from UK (for example Vodafone!).

Sure, the Romans were also a very very powerful civ, but in my opinion their influence was restricted only to Europe (at the "same" time there were other great cultures in other parts of the world, e.g. like the Egypts or the Chinese...).

And the USA are "only" a mixture of British, Irish, German, Italian, African, Asian and many other people... though they now are of course the most powerful civ of the world.

Well, that is my opinion!

[Serb]

Originally posted by YefeiPi


First of all, communism is not your people's ideas. It originated from Germany and you guys copied it. Also, communism is exactly the reason why China was not doing well in the past decades, that's the biggest mistake China made. I guess the old and the wise makes occasional mistakes as well

No, Communism is not originated From Germany, it's originated from ancient Greece. Even in that times people dreamed about such utopia society. Marx and Engels prove teoreticaly that such society is possible in an industrial age. But their work was only begining- the basis wich was used by us. We advanced teoretical works to that stage when it can be used practicaly and then we used them. We are the nation who was establish this new form of human society. You may like communism or not (I am not) but you have to agree that it's the only political system invented by humans in last couples of centures and the Russia was first communist country in human history. We invented it, we try it, we dont like it anymore, now we are democracy -OK?
And BTW who told you that China was not doing well in the past decades? As for me they doing very well. They have huge economy growth, and they shoot down US spy planes quite well.

[IncreduloDriver]

I voted for the British Empire, because of the following reasons:

(1) The defacto world language is english

True enough. Why is English the de facto world language? Because *America* has the most powerful, dynamic economy in the world. English is a required language in many countries, including the one in which I live, China. I guaratee you that 1.2 billion Chinese people do not learn English because the Chinese government finds the British government enamoring. The internet's de facto language is English. Why? Because *America* invented the internet and because most internet users were American for the longest time. America, and not England, is responsible for the spread of the English language *by consent* rather than *by force.* (When it's forced upon a people, it doesn't stick around for very long, either.)

(2) No other civilization had so much people and land mass under its control (more than 1/4 of the world!!)

The lasting effect of British culture in many former colonies is negligible or superficial at best. India is a prime example. Since we're trying to determine the most powerful civilization culturally as well as politically, economically, and in force of arms, the large British population just doesn't hold water against those four factors.

(3) The industrialization started at UK; one can say that the British Empire lead the world from middle ages to modern times

Industrialization may have started in Europe, but America has certainly developed it the most. The world's highest GDP both overall and per capita among only 270 million people is more than proof enough. As for the Middle Ages (i.e., the time before industrialization), there are plenty of examples of civilizations that knocked the pants off of European countries (the Arabs, for instance).

4) The British culture still have a great influence today (music for example)

Sure, British music rocks--but I'd hardly call the Beatles, Pink Floyd, and Oasis a standard for determining the most powerful civ EVER.

(5) Not every big corporation is from USA! Many global companies come from europe, especially from UK (for example Vodafone!).

True--not every corporation is from the USA. But most of the largest ones are. The oldest ones are. Why? Because America has the best economy and standard of living on the planet. From where did the very concept of corporations originate? That's right, America (General Motors, in fact, was the first modern corporation). As for Vodafone, I've never heard of it. Must not be too big. But I'm sure you've heard of Motorola, McDonalds, Microsoft, KFC, Ford, General Motors, Intel... and the list goes on.

Politically, America is unquestionably the most powerful nation in the world. I doubt there is anybody on the planet who would doubt this. When America does something politically, the rest of the (civilized) world follows.

Economically, America is unmatched, both in GDP per capita and in total GDP. I also covered this above.

Culturally, America has contributed more to the world than any other civilization in history, save the Ancient Greeks. John Locke (a Limey) was the first person to recognize that governments exist to serve the people, but America was the first country in the world to enact such a system. When America tried it, Europe though they'd fail. Europe laughed at rule by the people. And now, look! The degree of democracy is now the standard of a righteous government. Nearly every European country is a democracy. Every country in America, save Cuba, is a democracy. Africa is partially democratic. Asia is democratizing. Why? Because America showed the world that a system of indivdual rights can work and works well. NO other country in the world--I repeat, NO other country--recognized *unalienable* individual rights in 1789. America is the pioneer of democracy. For the cultural impact on the world of that, alone, America should be considered the most powerful nation throughout history.
Aside from democracy, America has made huge contributions to the culture of the world, including what foods people eat, what clothes they wear, hairstyles, music, movies, etc., etc. Basically, if there is any concept specific to a modern, capitalist economy (fast food, pop music, labor unions, anti-trust laws), you can bet that it originated in America. Some of those things perhaps aren't the greatest, but they certainly have consumed the globe.

As far as military power is concerned, undoubtedly, America is number one. Relatively speaking, America has more military power than any other country throughout history. Alexander the Great could never destroy the world with a few pushes of a button. America can. Absolutely speaking, I'd pit America's army against any other army throughout history.

America is certainly the most powerful country EVER. It's true that America has taken influences from previous cultures--philosophy from the Greeks, law from the British and the Romans--but America has merged them all into a new culture, a culture which continues to spread throughout the globe to this day.

[ginzuishou]

And the USA are "only" a mixture of British, Irish, German, Italian, African, Asian and many other people... though they now are of course the most powerful civ of the world.

Yes, the US is a combination of many different peoples, but these peoples wouldn't call themselves German, Irish, African, etc., they would call themselves Americans. The precious nature of America, and indeed other nations like Canada and Australia is the ability to take in different peoples from all over the world, all of who create a new whole from their various parts and contributions.

Nothing is truly original anymore, everything's derived inspiration from another source of some type. Take art for example. Students of art start out under the influence of their professors and other artists that have come before them as well as their peers. As they grow and expand, they take in all kinds of influences from all sorts of sources and create something new and unique with their own personal twist and flavor. This is what America has done, culturally. They've borrowed aspects of many different cultures all over the world (mainly European of course) and have created something new and unique out of that material. American's certainly do have their own, organized culture.

[IncreduloDriver]

Originally posted by Serb


No, [communism] is not originated From Germany, it's originated from ancient Greece. Even in that times people dreamed about such utopia society. Marx and Engels prove teoreticaly that such society is possible in an industrial age. But their work was only begining- the basis wich was used by us. We advanced teoretical works to that stage when it can be used practicaly and then we used them. We are the nation who was establish this new form of human society. You may like communism or not (I am not) but you have to agree that it's the only political system invented by humans in last couples of centures and the Russia was first communist country in human history. We invented it, we try it, we dont like it anymore, now we are democracy -OK?
And BTW who told you that China was not doing well in the past decades? As for me they doing very well. They have huge economy grows, and they shoot down US spy planes quite well.

Communism, in any proper use of the word, originated in Germany by Marx and Engels. It was their work which enabled Russia, China, Korea, Laos, and Vietnam to become Communist countries. The Greeks' thoughts on the subject were unadvanced and primitive, as well as quite sparse. It would be a gross miscalculation to attribute communism to the Greeks, just as it would be wrong to attribute X-ray machines and genetic engineering to them, though they did invent medicine.

As for China, China's interpretation of communism was MUCH different from the Soviet interpretation, and this was what led to over a decade of tension between the two nations. China's emphasis was on the "Rural Proletariat" whereas the Soviets were led by a stricter interpretation of Marx.

Modern China can be called anything but communist. Since the death of Mao, Deng has liberalized the economy immensely, seeking a "Socialist market economy," i.e., a European- or American-style economy. Government propoganda quips aside (and believe me, there's plenty), The PRC does not seek new interpretations of Marxist and Leninist thought, but rather a distancing from it, what they call "Deng Xiaoping theory." This has been responsible for China's economic and political growth. As proof, I suggest you take a look at a 1979 World Almanac and a 2001 World Almanac and adjust China's GDP for inflation. You'll be pretty surprised by what you find.

[ginzuishou]

America is the pioneer of democracy.

Well, if you're willing to consider Fukuyama's "The End Of History?", then America has brought democracy into it's maturity. What more can Liberal Democracy do? I do agree with him, it's at it's ideological end. In America, liberty is pretty much had by all. There's equal rights and freedom for women, racial minorities, and people of all ages; the only real civil liberties area left to conquer is gay and lesbian rights. There's freedom to practice religions of all types, to pursue commercial interests, free speech, and the list goes on. Ancient Greece was the pioneer of Democracy, America is it's true successor (I hope)...

Once again, I'm rather skeptical to consider that any one nation can be considered all powerful throughout all of history when the dynamics of each time period merit different systems of evaluation. I think we can all agree that America is the most powerful nation of the 20th century but I think it's a regression to view history with only a 20th century lens. We should be looking at the 14th century with a 14th century and 20th century lens, for example.

If we where to break down a civ's "power" as follows:

cultural power
militaristic power
political power
ideological power
economic power
technological power

And apply this on it's own to different centuries, you would have different results. It would be good to find a comparative standard that is not present-day America. Obviously Ancient civ's can't compare with America's technological capacity nor it's ideological capacity (etc.) of today. America, along with many other countries of the world have the building blocks of history as their foundations; so that's why it's appropriate to examine different time periods individually and not use the present day super powers as universally perfect paradigms to judge all that has come before.

[Sun Zi 36]

people are twisting the question to argue their point

"Countries such as Germany (with its large Gastarbeiter population) and the U.S.A. and France and Australia are all absorbing peoples and ideas and influences from around the world, but still without being fundamentally altered. Of course there are great similarities between cultures, but even countries as similar as the U.S.A. and Great Britain and Australia still remain fundamentally different."

This argument is completely missing the point. It is trying to analyse how culture influences nations. But the question is "Which civ is the most powerful". It's CIV, not country. A Civ consists of a group of people sharing common culture. What u should be considering is whether the group of people u are talking about has a distinct culture. To me US doesn't qualify bcos it does not even contain a group of people sharing common culture. If u use the term in a narrower sense meaning the majority of people in US who share common culture, then US still doesn't qualify bcos the culture of the majority in US is too common with the culture of the majority in countries such as New Zealand and England to be classified as different.

"Yes, the US is a combination of many different peoples, but these peoples wouldn't call themselves German, Irish, African, etc., they would call themselves Americans. The precious nature of America, and indeed other nations like Canada and Australia is the ability to take in different peoples from all over the world, all of who create a new whole from their various parts and contributions."

I agree with u that many people call themselves American. But i would like to let u know that many people dont. But anyway, whether they do or not is not very important to culture itself. As i said the question is about CIV, not nation.

"The question didn't ask who was the most dominant in their time, or who was the longest lasting; it asked who was the most powerful."

U r right. But u also missed something. It didn't just ask "who was the most powerful", it asked "who was the most powerful IN ALL HISTORY". When u see the words "IN ALL HISTORY", it is very logical to interpret the question by PUTTING YOUR ANALYSES IN THE CONTEXT OF HISTORY.
It is asking u to compare the relative power of each CIV in their respective times, not use an absolute scale and say Afghanistan is more powerful than the Roman Empire bcos it possessed more destructive weapons and can transmit aspects of culture through the media to the rest of the world.

[Pyrodrew]

Sun Zi - you have a very narrowminded opinion of the definition of culture.