Which civ was the most powerful in all history?

[Rosacrux]

Ishmael, Wulfram et al, to stop this rubish here before it gets to widespread:

- Alexander was Greek. The macedonian kingdom was greek. Macedonians belong to a Greek branch and they actually derive from the same branch that gave us the Pelloponesians (the Spartans, you might have heard them) namely the Dorian.

The southern Greeks didn't held them much in terms of respect, but that was due to their regime (they had monarchy and Greeks absolutely despised monarchy) and not their ancestry.

the absolute proof about the Macedonian Greeknes (SIC!) is that they spoke Greek and they participated in the ancient Olympics (reserved only for Greeks).

Ok, in the actual question, there is no such thing as "most powerful" civilization. If you take into account the military might of a single empire, well Rome wins hands down.

If you talk about land masse and population, it's a close one between China and the Brits.

If you talk about culture and influence it's definitely Greece.

Pick what suits you

[Wulfram]

Tell that to someone from the Former Yugoslav Republic Of Macedonia, but get ready to duck when they try to punch you. The reason why they have that Former Yugoslav bit is to make the point that they are not Greek. Alexander was not Greek, he would not have seen himself as Greek and no one in Greece would have seen him as Greek. The monarchy bit is pretty inaccurate as well, seeing as many acknowledged greeks (such as the Spartans) were ruled by a Monarchy.

[History Guy]

OK OK Wulfram, the Greeks wouldn't have regarded that reprobate Alexander a Greek, and he wouldn't have regarded himself as Greek, either, but face it, the historians and scholars of the ages have always considered him to be one of the great Greeks, so that's what he is. Personally, it doesn't matter what he was to me, a Macedonian Greek or an invader, I still don't like him either way.

[Saint Marcus]

so many people voting for the usa. lol. sure, a lot more powerful than the British Empire used to me, right?

[jasev]

"Thus, thinking he was sended by the divinity to be everybody's arbytrator and to unite them, he wished everybody to look the whole world as an united country; people shouldn't make differences between greeks and barbarians because their weapons or dresses; people shold look at every good men as a greek and every malefactor as a barbarian"

Plutarco, "Life of Alexander" (freely and bad translated by my humbly person)

Alexander though himself as a greek (my god, he recieved his education from Aristoteles); his empire was based on greek culture ("Helenistic" means "Greek") and everybody has considered them as greeks since then.

Yes, there are a Macedonian Republic and his inhabitants reject to be greeks, but we should note that today's Macedonia has little to do with former Macedonia. The ancient Macedonia was culturally greek, mostly because it was the only culture near.

[ranskaldan]

Alexander was taught by Aristotle and actively emulated the Greeks. He thought of himself as the king of the Greeks. When he conquered Egypt and Syria, they were Hellenized.

The "Former Yugoslav" was not added by the modern Macedonians. It was added on request by Greece. The Greeks felt that they had first rights to the name Macedonia (because it was Greek in classical times). The Greeks themselves still have three administrative regions called Western, Central, and Eastern Macedonia. They felt it wasn't right for a Slavic name to call themselves Macedonia, so they requested (demanded) that in order for Macedonia to join the UN, they must add the "Former Yugoslav Republic" to their name.

[Wulfram]

Alexander emulated the Greeks and admired their culture, and wanted to be a Greek but wasn't, but was not a Greek, he was Macedonian.

[Ecthy]

I have been taught that the Poles were and still are the most powerful civilizaiton ever. Don't you just see they rule us all?

[ranskaldan]

Alexander emulated the Greeks and admired their culture, and wanted to be a Greek but wasn't, but was not a Greek, he was Macedonian.

During that historical period, the Greeks did not consider Alexander to be Greek, but Alexander did consider himself to be Greek.

By the time he reigned, Macedonia was indeed an integral part of Greek culture just as Rhodes, Cyrene or Syracuse. Maybe not the center (Athens or Sparta), but at least a peripheral part of Greater Greece. Macedonians spoke Greek and worshipped Greek gods. What more can you ask for?

(The modern Macedonians, however, are Slavic.)

[tleilaxu]

Re: Re: Why aren't the Mongols on this list?

Originally posted by molly bloom



Actually, while they may have had the largest continuous land-based empire, the Mongols lose out in terms of size of territory to the British.
Also, to imply that all that saved the Japanese from the Mongols was bad weather, is to focus only on the first Mongol-led invasion of Japan. The second attempt met prepared Japanese resistance, and not just a 'Divine Wind'.
The Mongols were not noted for their sea-borne prowess as a cursory glance at their battles would show you.

The Mongols didn't conquer Japan because the Koreans were incompetant sailors (Or one could say the Koreans didn't want to help the Mongols so they did a bad job on purpose)

Come on people!! TANG CHINA was, relative to the other powers of the time, the most powerful nation ever. They had cities with millions of people... Cordoba had 20,000!

It is obviously China. One hundred years from now it'll be China again... the US is top dog because every dog has its day but America's power is transient...

[YefeiPi]

I totally agree. Tang China was not just flourishing in population, its arts, culture, military and science totally dominated. At that time, all neighbouring civs such as persian kingdoms had to pay annual tribute to the Chinese emperor to avoid being crushed. In my opinion, there is no other civ that even comes remotely close to China in terms of influence, longevity, or achievement.

[molly bloom]

Divine winds and stone walls:

https://www.ualberta.ca/~chor/MONGOLIN.HTM

https://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/dba154/dba154.html

https://www.gosho.net/Nichiren/Gosho/bk_MongolEnvoys.htm

baatar.freeyellow.com/monkarhot.html

[Felch]

Tang China was very powerful for its time, in fact it was probably more powerful in relative terms than the United States is today. But the US today is incredibly powerful. Our pop culture (not really art) military and science dominate the world. And not just neighbouring countries, but just about every country has to pay us tribute, in the form of trade agreements that bring huge profits to American companies while exploiting undeveloped countries.

Furthermore, the United States is able to extend its power anywhere in the globe, very easily. The problem with this question is that power has always grown throughout history. For example, the Holland of today is far more wealthy and powerful than the 17th century Holland, but it is less influential in world affairs because the rest of the world has grown very quickly along with it. Same holds true for the UK, or China, or most other countries. It's not a matter of how powerful you are, it's a matter of when you're that powerful.

So basically the US is the most powerful in all history, if you take it at its height vs. any of these other civilizations at their height.

[Lung]

As the original troublemaker in creating this thread, i think it's time i gave my dubious opinion

As maligned as the Yanks are, there's no question of them being a worthy civ. The USA may not have been a dominant force for long, but hey, they're not dead yet! As powerful as the USA is, their power is not likely to diminish anytime soon, and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. In fact, their power is likely to increase significantly with Bush's apparent militarisation of space. Look forward to another 100 years of unmatched military supremacy, not to mention McDonalds I think 1000 years from now, the USA will still figure prominently.

Most powerful military - Romans by a mile. 300+ years of total dominance.

Most longevity - China.

Most cultural influence - Greece and English.

Worthy mentions - Mongols, Spanish, Russians, Vikings, Persians, Egyptians, USA.

Finally, i must say that my decision to include the Spanish has been vindicated, coming in at about fifth so far. Unfortunately, there wasn't enough room to include the Mongols or Vikings, hence the "other" option. Also, it was good to see no complaints about the absence of Zulus and Iroquois

[ginzuishou]

My choices are Greece, England/France/Germany/Italy and the USA for the following reasons.

The Greeks gave us Hellenism which, along with Christianity have been the two largest ideological shaping factors in Western History. The English, French, German and Italian peoples for establishing the Medieval, Renaissance (pretty much just Italy) and the Modern era (minus Italy from Modern contributions, France is especially important here). The USA for giving us the Postmodern world, one which may last for a few centuries still (just like Moderninity, so too may Postmoderninity continue in strength for some time).

Since I love ideas/philosophy and such, my choices are based on that criterion. I know little of China, India and other Eastern nations so I can’t accurately include them in my choices.

Someone mentioned that England invented Democracy or something like this in a prior post… where does this come from? It was the Athenian’s who established a representative assembly for the first time in History (I hope, for my sake). It’s the USA’s Constitution that set the groundwork for all Modern democracies since minus those that are a part of the British Common Wealth. Of course, many rightfully say that figures such as Jefferson relied heavily on European idea’s to draft their constitution, however, the proof is in the pudding. Their system worked so in many ways they can be credited a great deal for democracies current success in that they proved it could be done in the Modern era.