Why Hungary SHOULD be included in the expansion pack.

[Mihai]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Please gentlemen.... Can we have an end to the nationalist cheat thumping? If anyone is interested in a an impartial 3rd party view on the history of the balkans which contains several enlightening chapters on both Hungary and Rumania the pick up a copy of the book "Balkan Ghosts". I can't think of the author right now but you should be able to find it on a title such at Amazon. It did a truly great job at dealing impartially with a region known of ethnic seporatism and the rewriting of history to fit nationalist criteria. Cheers.

Due to heavy stealing from online comands, you can't order anything from Romania now. And I don't think I could aford it either. I apreciate very much ANY impartial point of view since both romanians and hungarians exagerate in their favor. Maybe you could give me some links. Please!

A funny thing, I just read today in a newspaper that if you order something online you should give the adress "Name, Adress, BUCHAREST, HUNGARY"

[Mihai]

The end (I hope)

Originally posted by MagyarCrusader
Just look at the tone of his first post! Unfortunately with the situation, you can't expect anything more out of him or any "Romanian".

Any nation has good guys and bad guys. With a conception like this quoted it's clearly that we can't talk by reason.
I asked Victor Galis to put an end to this thread.
"Don't argue with a foul. People might don't see the diference (between you and him)"

[Victor Galis]

Very well... it is time I went to other concerns, like my school work (drat, procrastination scheme #24b failed... must find a new one)

[Boney]

Pens

After all this bickering and fighting, my post is on a lighter note.

I am not sure exactly, but didn't Laszlo Biro, who invented the ball point pen, come from Hungary. This must be one of the most, if not the most, widely used inventions of the 20th century. I think Mr Rubik was also Hungarian, please correct me if I am wrong.

Just leave me out of the arguments

[Fidel]

Re: Pens

Originally posted by Boney
After all this bickering and fighting, my post is on a lighter note.

I am not sure exactly, but didn't Laszlo Biro, who invented the ball point pen, come from Hungary. This must be one of the most, if not the most, widely used inventions of the 20th century. I think Mr Rubik was also Hungarian, please correct me if I am wrong.

Just leave me out of the arguments

yes, and they invented vitamine C. tesla, who was a serbian, invented a bunch of things. and emil sioran was (IMHO) wrote the best self-therapeutical books ever so everyone's got one....

[OzzyKP]

Boy, that was an education for all of us.

I don't know what happened in the Poland thread, I just started this to try and show everyone the legitimate merits of Hungary, a country that i feel is very deserving and has made a significant mark on world history. It is a shame that with simple intentions like this Hungary was attacked and then defended vigorously which ended up loosing and forgetting the entire point of this thread.

I find it is a shame that people must always attack others. In the Civ3 General Forum some Multiplayers started threads complaining about Firaxis' decision to not release MP with the game. These were very legitimate worries and concerns but instead the SPers came to the thread and started attacking MP. Those threads too became flame wars.

If the Romanians on this list want to support their own heritage and culture by all means start a thread like this and promote whatever positives there are about Romania. I find it in bad taste to come and attack Hungarians in this thread however.

So hopefully the flame war is over for now and we can politely discuss the historical merits of the Magyar people. I unfortunatly am not an expert in the subject but Magyar Crusader seems to be better at that. So if anyone has some non-hostile questions on why exactly we think Hungary is deserving of this expansion pack please feel free to ask and discuss.

[OzzyKP]

Re: Pens

Originally posted by Boney
After all this bickering and fighting, my post is on a lighter note.

I am not sure exactly, but didn't Laszlo Biro, who invented the ball point pen, come from Hungary. This must be one of the most, if not the most, widely used inventions of the 20th century. I think Mr Rubik was also Hungarian, please correct me if I am wrong.

Just leave me out of the arguments

Yep, I can't believe I forgot to mention the Rubik's cube. Both Hungarian inventions in addition to many other contributions to the world. Thanks for the reminder.

[Luk]

Ohhh God!

Hungary was never superpower

In Middle Ages it was an average kingdom, and in XV century it fallen under Polish Kings control, and after 1532 it started to be controlled by Habsburgs. De facto from XV-XX Hungary never was independant country. Sad but true.

[MagyarCrusader]

oh boy

Hungary was never superpower
In Middle Ages it was an average kingdom

During the 800s, Magyar cavalry devestated mainland Europe as far as southern France and Italy. The Hunyadis were able to halt Ottoman expansion in Europe for about 70 years, and conquered most of Austria including Vienna, capital of the largest European country at the time. I guess the term superpower is subjective and you could still say Hungary was never a superpower, but by similar logic you could say Germany was never a superpower since all three Reichs ended up being crushed, yet Germans are still in the game.

De facto from XV-XX Hungary never was independant country. Sad but true.

If I'm not mistaken, there are ancient civilizations included in the game that disappeared since BC times.

[Mihai]

You are right

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Boy, that was an education for all of us.

I don't know what happened in the Poland thread, I just started this to try and show everyone the legitimate merits of Hungary, a country that i feel is very deserving and has made a significant mark on world history. It is a shame that with simple intentions like this Hungary was attacked and then defended vigorously which ended up loosing and forgetting the entire point of this thread.

I read againg the begining of the thread and I have to say that you were fair. You prezented very calm the achievements of hungarians/Hungary

Originally posted by OzzyKP
If the Romanians on this list want to support their own heritage and culture by all means start a thread like this and promote whatever positives there are about Romania. I find it in bad taste to come and attack Hungarians in this thread however.

Unfortunatelly Romania wasn't that important in history to be in first 16 civ for Civ3.
However wasn't my intention to attack Hungary and I apologise if it looked that way. I just wanted to tempered you down. I don't like the expresion/idea of "we fight with turks while the Occident buld cathedrals" - no matter if is about hungarians or romanians. Both fought for their interests, not to keep the Occident free from turks. If we could convince turks to avoid us and go straight to them...

Originally posted by OzzyKP
So hopefully the flame war is over for now and we can politely discuss the historical merits of the Magyar people. I unfortunatly am not an expert in the subject but Magyar Crusader seems to be better at that. So if anyone has some non-hostile questions on why exactly we think Hungary is deserving of this expansion pack please feel free to ask and discuss.

I don't like flame wars. Unfortunately MagyarCrusader (who knows more history) is very biased and just LOVE to attack romanians/Romania.
Victor Galis is younger than me and he is lighting up easier, but not that much as MagyarCrusader (OK, now I might be biased ).
I would like very much if MagyarCrusader could show hungarians good parts without attackin Romania. It shouldn't be too hard - hungarians have their share of achievements.

[Victor Galis]

I delight in nationalist flame wars, when I am bored, and when I feel a worthy nation needs defending.

[MagyarCrusader]

I would like very much if MagyarCrusader could show hungarians good parts without attackin Romania.

I'll quote from my first post in this thread (btw, thanks for reading it).

I've got a good page for famous Hungarians:

http://www.hungary.org/users/hipcat/famous.htm

The ones that would probably relate to civ3 most are the military and scientific ones:

http://www.hungary.org/users/hipcat...andmilitary.htm

http://www.hungary.org/users/hipcat...mathandtech.htm

I delight in nationalist flame wars, when I am bored, and when I feel a worthy nation needs defending.

Victor, you need a life. No healthy individual should delight in the world's problems. I certainly didn't enjoy our "debate".

[Luk]

In 800s Hungary was not the country but the group of barbarian nomads, who plundered everything which was able to plunder, thats all. And in 955 Otto kicked their asses near Lechowe Pole.

If you say about Hunyadi - the King of Hungary in XV century, then I must say that he was for a some time under control of Polish King Warnenczyk who died in 1444 near Warna, which is near Black Sea. Warnenczyk was Hungarian King (and Polish of course) who fought with Ottoman Empire. So Hungarians were never fighting alone with Muslims but with a help of Polish Kings, or Habsburgs (and with Polish, or Austrian regiments).

And now in XX Century Hungary, despite the fact that they are in NATO, nobody is interested in such a small country like Hungary.

[MagyarCrusader]

In 800s Hungary was not the country but the group of barbarian nomads, who plundered everything which was able to plunder, thats all.

1 word. Mongols.

nobody is interested in such a small country like Hungary.

You are thinking of Hungary today but in terms of civilization we look at history. Hungary during the middle ages was territorially larger than some of the civs that were included, but the size of the country doesn't matter, it's historical influence and contributions. Hungary had a vital role in eastern europe throughout the middle ages up until the end of the Austro-Hungarian empire. Maria Theresa the great Austrian Queen would not have even had her throne if it weren't a diet of Hungarian nobles that assembled in Pressburg agreed to offer her their help. (and in case people want to doubt historic facts again, I got that from a world history textbook here in america)

If you say about Hunyadi - the King of Hungary in XV century, then I must say that he was for a some time under control of Polish King Warnenczyk who died in 1444 near Warna, which is near Black Sea.

I think Luk is just pissed off that Matthias was able to conquer BRESLAU (for some reason the Polish didn't think this name was good enough so they changed it to Wroclaw, apparantly Luk's hometown) and defend it with 8,000 men against the Polish army of 80,000.

So Hungarians were never fighting alone with Muslims but with a help of Polish Kings, or Habsburgs (and with Polish, or Austrian regiments).

I read otherwise in an american military history magazine. (Actually it was the website). I've lost the bookmark but, I'm sure it's still available via search engines.

[Luk]

Hungary had a vital role in eastern europe throughout the middle ages up until the end of the Austro-Hungarian empire.

What a vital role? Hungary was all the time influenced by other superpowers, Jagiellonian (Polish) or Habsburgs.

I think Luk is just pissed off that Matthias was able to conquer BRESLAU (for some reason the Polish didn't think this name was good enough so they changed it to Wroclaw, apparantly Luk's hometown) and defend it with 8,000 men against the Polish army of 80,000.

What a Matthias....? Hungary did never conquer my beautiful city.
Second. Wroclaw name i correct, because Wroclaw was founded in 1000 by Poles, and in XIV century it fallen to Czechs, and then to Germans, and in XX century it backed to Poland. Germans changed it name to Breslau