Why Poland SHOULD be included in one of the official sets

[krzysiek]

LoD: I had to check the encyclopedia...

Józef (Joseph) Bem - very interesting... polish general, in October 1848 he commanded Vienna's defence. Since August 1849 commander-in-chief of Hungarian Army. After fall of Hungarian revolution, as a general in Turkey Army, changed his religion to Islam (his new name was Murat Pasza). Died in Syria in 1850.
Author of studies on theory of artillery and rocket building.

Sowiñski Józef Longin (1777-1831) - again polish general, patriot, not very famous outside Poland. His heroic attitude was immortalized by Juliusz Slowacki (polish romantic poet and writer) in his renowned poem.

Good choices LoD.
But I'd prefer our first leaders: Mieszko I or Boles³aw Chrobry.

Do you agree with my opinion that except for Walesa and Pope John Paul II we are short of Polish Great Leaders nowadays (lets say since 1950)?

[Mankind]

kielbasa & pierogie's
yummy

leader: mieszko
capital: Gniezno
spec. unit: husars

And USSR could win with Poland and than tisk tisk Europe...
...but polish matematicks break soviet coding and easly gave them butt kicking

HEY!
civ3 without Poland is like bigos without cabbage
realy!

[now goto run to school ]

[Kolobos]

Many people voted for polland and If they would not find it in this add
they would not propably buy it

It is important fact

Maria Curi Sklodowska she discovered Rad and Polon - she was polish

[Martinus]

mankind, good post, but I think I would make the following changes:

ruler: Kazimierz (Casimir) the Great or Sigismund the Old
(actually, since we are going for more female leaders, why not St. Jadwiga or Bona Sforza?)

capitol: Gniezno was the first one, it is true, but I would make it Krakow - probably the most influential of 3 historical Polish capitols in the overal history

CSU: of course husar (improved knight or dragon? - if it is in)

CSA: religious and ? commercial or scientific IMHO (although industrious may work well too)

Golden Age Trigger Wonder: Copernicus Observatory (it would have to be religious and scientific then)

[LoD]

krzysiek: Hmm, yes, you're right about the "post 1950 GL crisis" (maybe except Lepper ). However, keep in mind that after 1950 till today we fought no wars, so there was no opportunity for anyone to become a national hero, as far as military causes are concerned.

BTW, who would you consider more "worthy" to posses the status of a Great Leader, if Poland would find its way to the Civ3 expansion: Sikorski, or Berling?


Kolobos et al.: I would propose not to present additional arguments until we are required to. Otherwise the multitude of small "fors" might overshroud our major arguments.

Martinus: Nooo! Capital: Warsaw!!!! Hmm, there goes my local patriotism again ...

Are you sure the second attrib' of Copernicus' Laboratory is religious?

And guys: what do you think about UberKruX's idea to have some sort of artillery as a CSU? He does have a point there you know - although I agree that the husar is Poland's most known and most "popular" specific unit, there are already 2 CSUs IIRC that base on the Knight.

LoD

[Martinus]

LoD

Sikorski or Berling? Well, this guys have a slightly questionable past, don't you think?

And I also live in Warsaw (BTW, where are you located?) But I think Krakow used to be more important. And you can always build a Forbidden Palace (Belvedere ? ) in Warsaw, making it a second capital - actually it would not be much different from what Sigismund III did, as he did not formally move the capital there.

I also know Copernicus Lab is not religious - but Polish CSA should be religious, and Copernicus Lab should trigger the Polish GA. It's just like Great Wall for Chinese - it is not exactly militaristic (it was supposed to protect them from war rather), but it has to be Militaristic and Industrious to allow for the GA for Chinese.

As for the artillery, it is kind of a good idea in theory, but in practice that would mean the Polish CSU is not particularly usable. I mean, IIRC, artillery in Civ3 will be much like in SMAC - used to "weaken" the defences of the enemy, rather than attack directly. So its use will be only supportive. Besides, it will not be likely to actually win an attack by killing a unit. So I still go for husars.

BTW, this thread is startive to be indicative of our Polish character. We have scared everybody off with our claims of greatness, and now will get bogged down, arguing about minor details and specifics. Very Polish

[Saint Marcus]

Are you sure the second attrib' of Copernicus' Laboratory is religious?

Yes. Copernicus believed God designed the universe as a perfect clockwork. This didn't seemed to correspond with the Ptolomeic theory of the sun around the earth (too many inconsistencies). Copernicus wanted to go back to the Aristotelean perfect circular orbits and the only way to do this was by putting the sun in the centre instead of the earth. He only did it to show God's perfect creation.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Mark L


Yes. Copernicus believed God designed the universe as a perfect clockwork. This didn't seemed to correspond with the Ptolomeic theory of the sun around the earth (too many inconsistencies). Copernicus wanted to go back to the Aristotelean perfect circular orbits and the only way to do this was by putting the sun in the centre instead of the earth. He only did it to show God's perfect creation.

Uhmm. Good point. I haven't thought about it.

[Mankind]

yes to husars

and if husars than it (they? ) will be in mid ages so

+/-

atack- 17
defense- 15
move points- 3

why atack 17 ? let us found artilery has 15 an why hsars 17?

history proven army of husars can be more dastructive than artilery and with the small own losses

ok ok it wouldn't be me without small dozen of off topic

special unit joke- Mad Polish
at- post/s
defense- what?
movment cost- 35/3minutes

now that was poor joke...

[LoD]

Martinus:

Sikorski or Berling? Well, this guys have a slightly questionable past, don't you think?

Yeah, obviously I need to refresh my knowledge on the WWII period .

And I also live in Warsaw (BTW, where are you located?) But I think Krakow used to be more important.

I live on the boundary between Bemowo and Bielany, about 500m from Powazkowska street (I have extremely calm neighbours, if you know what I mean ).

Seriously now - I would opt for Gniezno as the capital - maybe it was not as important as the other two, but it was definitely the first.

As for the artillery, it is kind of a good idea in theory, but in practice that would mean the Polish CSU is not particularly usable. I mean, IIRC, artillery in Civ3 will be much like in SMAC - used to "weaken" the defences of the enemy, rather than attack directly. So its use will be only supportive. Besides, it will not be likely to actually win an attack by killing a unit.

You do have a point. However, I think that a beefed-up arty CSU could be very formidable (greater attack range? ability to kill units?).

BTW, this thread is startive to be indicative of our Polish character. We have scared everybody off with our claims of greatness, and now will get bogged down, arguing about minor details and specifics. Very Polish

LOL ! True, so very true .

MarkL: I second Martinus' statement. Good point.

Mankind: Whoaa mama ! If the husars had such an ADM rating the Poles would be unstopable!

LoD

[Martinus]

Originally posted by LoD
Mankind: Whoaa mama ! If the husars had such an ADM rating the Poles would be unstopable!

We were unstoppable. We just did not want to show off

[Mankind]

Originally posted by LoD

Mankind: Whoaa mama ! If the husars had such an ADM rating the Poles would be unstopable!

LoD

Well actually they [We? ] was unstopable in a In certain temporary epoch you know, or maybe you don't know?

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Mankind


Well actually they [We? ] was unstopable in a In certain temporary epoch you know, or maybe you don't know?

Uhmm...mate, I guess you lost me here

[Mankind]

yes indeed you posted just before me [i was writing it & eating dinner ]

and Polish people Let us not quarrel ...
an Martinus i think i PM you...

[Martinus]

Oh, sorry, I thought you were talking to me, not LoD Ooops.

So, gents, we agree for Poland being Religious and Scientific? Sounds cool, actually.

And for the great leaders, there are plenty. Just go through the list of Europa Universalis leaders