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Why Poland SHOULD be included in one of the official sets

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  • Why Poland SHOULD be included in one of the official sets

    I am writing this post partially because Poland didn't get to the main set. I am writing this post because Poland's outlooks to get to the second set look unpromising. But I'm writing this post mostly because in the last ranking of civs to be included in the expansion was behind the Eskimos. And the Mayas. And the Sioux.

    Now, wait, I take that back. I am writing this post mostly to dispel a myth quite popular among posters here. And this myth is:
    Poland is some puny country in Eastern Europe, which was never powerful and who's only inventions are kielbasa and pierogies
    I'll start by a simple comparison: the date universally acknowledged as the one that marks the creation of the Polish country is 966 (the christening of Poland), while the United States' Declaration of Independence dates 1776. Now here's a question: if a country with so favorable "starting conditions" as the US needed about 150 years to achieve domination, wouldn't it be likely for a country with a not as very, but also a quite nice topographical etc. situation, to achieve domination in its region?
    The answer of course is yes. And indeed, Poland had been a superpower for quite a period of time. Well, in the start of course, the country was small. However, subsequently with gaining more victories in conflicts with neighbors, it grew. The most important historical occurrence, as far as territorial issues are concerned, was the unification of Lithuania with Poland. After that, the country started to enter what was its golden age. Firstly, the Republic beat the crap out of the Teutonic Knights (which were ironically invited into the region by a Polish duke, to beat the crap out of the Prussians). Not so late after country spread into an empire that stretched from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea. It was quite a formidable opponent for anyone in that time. And, although its power started to fade from the 17th century, Poland still managed to accomplish some challenging feats, such as taking over Moscow and even controlling Russia for a short period of time. However, such achievements did not prevent the eventual downfall of Poland, which happened at 1795, when the three states, Russia, Prussia, and Austria signed the 3rd partitioning agreement, effectively evaporating Poland from the map of Europe for 123 years. But it failed to evaporate the Polish nation.
    Enough with the historical introduction, here are my main arguments why Poles should be recognized as a nation that contributed largely to the world’s legacy. And so:
    -the battle of Vienna in 1683. If not for the Polish army, the Turks would have the attack routes to Europe open before them. But they were defeated.
    -the battle of Warsaw in 1920. This time the Polish forces stopped the Bolshevik approach, another menace, which, if uncontained, would engulf all Western Europe.
    -as stated before, in the late XVth-XVIth-early XVIIth century period, Poland was practically a superpower – the largest country in Europe, with one of the best armies, and a prospering economy.
    Finally, Polish scientists had a huge contribution in most fields of human progress. Probably the most famous one is a guy that revolutionized a lot of areas of life with his brave but simple theory. Can you guess who?

    LoD

    Appendix 0: These are not all arguments that I have. I’ll roll in all my cannons in due time .
    Appendix 1: I have one more myth to dispel – pierogies are not actually Polish. They are Eastern Slavic.
    Appendix 2: But vodka was undoubtedly made first in Poland !
    I love the tick of the Geiger counter in the morning. It's the sound of... victory! :D
    LoD - Owner/Webmaster of civ.org.pl
    civ.org.pl's Discussion Forums and Multiplayer System for SMAC and Civs 2-4

  • #2
    i said it before:

    Polish

    Capital: Warsaw
    Ruler: Mieczyslaw I
    CSU: Light Cannon or Infantry
    Ability: Scientific & Commercial

    why i chose cannon:

    quote:

    from http://www.kasprzyk.demon.co.uk/www/Army.html

    The Poles set great store by artillery and were years in advance of their enemies until the eighteenth century, using light cannon with accurate bombardment and mobility being the crucial factors. They also used rocketry to great effect (Siemienowicz published a treatise on multi-stage rocketry in 1650!).

    --

    The infantry was lightly dressed without helmets or armour and armed with musket, short sword and hatchet. Only one man in eight carried a pike. In the 1550's a Polish regiment of 200 men could fire 150 shots in five minutes (contemporary Spanish brigades of 10,000 men could only deliver 750 in the same time)! Polish infantry possessed ten times greater firepower on a man-to-man basis than standard European infantries.





    i didn't choose cavalry because i think theres too many already
    "I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
    - Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card

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    • #3
      Well done LoD, lets hope that turns some heads. i always used to be Poland in Civ 1 with the Custom civ function. Was Poland in CtP, CtP2 ? I was going to buy CtP2 untill I saw Civ 3 in the main menu here .
      I usually had Stanislav II as Ruler (not the best king but one of the last or thee last king of Poland) (I think) Plz excuse my lack of knowlage, my Grandparents on my dad's side were Polish and there both dead so I can't really ask them about Poland.
      "I know not with what weapons WWIII will be fought with, but WWIV will be fought with sticks & stones". Albert Einstein
      "To Alcohol, the cause of and solution to all life's problems"- Homer Simpson

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      • #4
        Just a thought, how many people here have Polish backgrounds?.
        BTW Polish Military hats (Square) are cool
        "I know not with what weapons WWIII will be fought with, but WWIV will be fought with sticks & stones". Albert Einstein
        "To Alcohol, the cause of and solution to all life's problems"- Homer Simpson

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        • #5
          I think my paternal grandmother was Polish. I got my last name, Petrazickis (Petrazhitskiy), from her.

          I'd rank Poles as less important than Spanish, Swedes, Turks, and Arabs and as equals of Danes, Dutch, Portuguese, and Austrians.
          Blog | Civ2 Scenario League | leo.petr at gmail.com

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          • #6
            Re: Why Poland SHOULD be included in one of the official sets

            I'm not Polish, I'm Dutch for the record. I'd like to see Poland in the game. I think that it was more historically important than the Inuits or the Sioux. (I have to admit though that I'd also really like to see the Maya).
            Originally posted by LoD
            As stated before, in the late XVth-XVIth-early XVIIth century period, Poland was practically a superpower – the largest country in Europe, with one of the best armies, and a prospering economy.
            Was Poland really the largest country in Europe? I could understand that it's larger than France and Spain, but the Hapsburg Empire? The HRE? Russia? Also frankly, I don't remember it being a major player in European History. Also didn't they have a feudal system of agriculture far longer than Western Europe? I don't know if it's possible to have a "prospering economy" if many people are serfs. Admittedly I'm not an expert on Polish history, so could someone clarify all this for me?

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            • #7
              The only way I feel Poland can get in the game is by taking out some western european countries.

              Too many of them in the game already!
              Webmaster of Blizzard Chronicles

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              • #8
                bah, take out France.

                who needs a pink civ anyway?
                "I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
                - Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by UberKruX
                  bah, take out France.

                  who needs a pink civ anyway?
                  good one, very good one.

                  Prince of...... the Civ Mac Forum

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                  • #10
                    What's kielbasa?
                    CSPA

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                    • #11
                      The Nation of Rus was at LEAST as great as the kingdom of Lithuania and Poland

                      If Poland is included: Rus should be as well
                      -->Visit CGN!
                      -->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944

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                      • #12
                        Re: Re: Why Poland SHOULD be included in one of the official sets

                        Was Poland really the largest country in Europe? I could understand that it's larger than France and Spain, but the Hapsburg Empire? The HRE? Russia?
                        Germany is smaller than France and Spain so if it was bigger than them to was bigger than HRE.
                        Habsburg Empire???Habsburg Empire was small, just Austria, some frontier in Hungary, Bohemia and some small possesions in South and West Germany...
                        The actual concept of Russia isn´t the same that the Renaissance one, I amnot sure about the size in the Polish Golden Age, but I believe that it was smaller.

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                        • #13
                          Strongly agree with LoD.

                          UberKruX, I was surprised that you put "Mieczyslaw I" as ruler of Poland. After a while I realized that you meant the first ruler of Poland commonly known as "Mieszko I".

                          Poland was big in 17-18-th century. Look at the first picture here http://www.horlacher.org/Poland/P1772_1795.jpg

                          PS. LoD, przesylam Ci pozdrowienia znad morza.

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                          • #14
                            Hi Lod,

                            you here?
                            And still arguing for some Panslavic Confederacy

                            Arent

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                            • #15
                              Poland was big in 17-18-th century.
                              It was also quite powerless. That map is right before it was partitioned.

                              I think there are enough civs in Europe. And if another was to be added I doubt it would be Poland. Most likely Spain or the Vikings.
                              "I agree with everything i've heard you recently say-I hereby applaud Christantine The Great's rapid succession of good calls."-isaac brock
                              "This has to be one of the most impressive accomplishments in the history of Apolyton, well done Chris"-monkspider (Refering to my Megamix summary)
                              "You are redoing history by replaying the civs that made history."-Me

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