Why Poland SHOULD be included in one of the official sets

[LoD]

pithorr:

Polish hussars were not using those wings. It's just a 19th century myth. It was a part of parade uniform.

First of all, Leppersson meant the Hungarian husars.
Secondly, I am aware of only one myth about the husar's - the wings were originally much shorter. But they were worn in battle - most of the cases they were wielded to the back plate AFAIK .

[pithorr]

Originally posted by LaRusso
vetlegion, balkan nationalism is nothing in comparison to what you will hear from our polish friends. at least we do not believe all we hear in the school...sometimes

Yes, good post. Plain Truth.
You really do have problem with your school system...

[pithorr]

Yeah!
Poland will be in the game.
See this picture:
www.civ3.com-images-screenshots-science.jpg
Can you see that face on the top in the left side of the screen?
Who is he similar to?

[Mankind]

Originally posted by pithorr
Yeah!
Poland will be in the game.
See this picture:
www.civ3.com-images-screenshots-science.jpg
Can you see that face on the top in the left side of the screen?
Who is he similar to?

That link dosn't work....

[Leppersson]

Indeed
Pithorr!!!

[bogi]

http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/science.jpg

Thats not Walesa

[LoD]

Heheh, good one .

[LoD]

^bump

[ogotai]

Originally posted by pithorr
Yeah!
Poland will be in the game.
See this picture:
www.civ3.com-images-screenshots-science.jpg
Can you see that face on the top in the left side of the screen?
Who is he similar to?

He looks little like Walesa, but I heard, that Walesa will not be included in any new game

[Jools]

Okay, I am sick of people calling Poland pretty pathetic. Fact is that for a long period of time anything compared to Poland would be pathetic.

Now, Poland became a country of importance in the 10th century when it became christian and fully independant. It threw of the yoke of German Emperors, didn't have to pay tribute, had it's own Archbishop and Metropolite.

Poland was a country of reasonable importance up to the 12th century when it was divided by the kings many heirs. That's when the country broke up into small principalities (Silesia, Pommerania, Krakow, Masovia, Poznan etc...). Many princes tried to unify the country and many failed. The circumstances were very unfriendly for unification (especially Mongol invasion, where a joint Hungarian and Polish army stopped - yet was defeated - the Mongol advance).

Poland really picked up in late 14th century when it was unified by Wladyslaw Lokietek (apart from Silesia, Pommerania but had Red Rus).

Having a chain of good monarchs and great fortune Poland unified with the Lithuanians (who were the conquerers of all Rus), and the Lithuanian Prince was also the Polish King. This was in 1386.

After the Prussians organised an Uprising against the Teutons Poland joined in and defeated the modern military power (Teutons) at Grunwald.

That was the beginning to the golden age. The Jagiellons (lithuanian dynasty) soon were in power in almost all of central Europe, Bohemia, Poland, Lithuania, Hungary and Moldavia. It was a true powerhouse but unfortunately for them this didn't last too long.

After an ill-fated crusade against the Turk the Jagiellons lost Hungary because the King was slaughtered in Battle. Soon another war broke out with the still powerful Teutonic Order when another uprising was orginased this time by the Poles. This war last 14 years and was another Polish success.

By this time Poland was a rich, flourishing country with much importance and influence over their neighbours.

The 15th century ended and the next one began. It was also another good 100 years for Poland. Even though loosing the thrones of Bohemia and Hungary, The Jagiellons were still in power in Poland.

This is exactly when the Golden Age began. Poland being a very tolerant country felt an influx of Jewish immigrants that strengthened the economy, peasants were still free and all was well.

This century also was famous of it's good kings (Zygmunt The Old, Zygmunt Augustus, Stephen Bathory of Transylvania and the more argueable Sigismund Vasa of Sweden).

After many military succeses (last war with Teutonic Order ended in 1521 and the TO was vassalised and partitioned), Turkey and The Northern War against Ivan IV the Terrible, Poland was still a large, formidable country.

A very important date is the signing of the Warsaw Confederacy in AFAIK 1572. This was the document which made Poland a multi-religious country and made all gentrymen (20% of the population) equal by the law and king. From now on no religion was worse nor better, anyone disregarding religion could become a noble (even a Jew, and there were many Muslim nobles -not to mention orthodox and protestant).

The 16th century ended in great succes.

The 17th century was the birth of the Baroque which had a true Iron Base in Poland. Infact the Poles developed their own version of the Baroque called Sarmatism (the Poles claimed they were descendants of the ancient people the Sarmatians). Sarmatism was very popular among Poles and was very specific. I'll try to find some pictures. Clothes were derived from Turkey and Persia, the main weapon wasn't a rapier but a sabre(szabla). The influence of Sarmatism was great, From Warsaw to Buda to Moscow.

The 17th century was a time of strife for Poland and was soaked with blood. This is the time of non stop wars and great leaders and the declining of religous tolerance. After taking over Moscow in 1611, the hardcore catholic Sigismund Vasa could make his son, Wladyslaw the Tsar of Russia but he couldn't answer the Russian Bojars demand that his son turn to orthodox. A puppet tsar was placed on the Russian throne and was quickly dethroned by a moscow uprising.

Other wars include two with then extremely Powerful Sweden, Three with Turkey, two with Russia, One Cossack uprising, two Translyvanian invasions and ofcourse the regular crimean incursions.

It is strange that a country like poland with a tiny standing army managed to get out of almost every war with succes and even help it's allies. The tragedy and downfall is that most of these invasion occured in the same time giving Poland to time to rest or rebuild.

The last year of Polish victory is in 1683 when Jan III Sobieski, called by the Turks the Lion from the North, answered the Austrian Emperors call for aide and left Poland with 20,000 hussars for the beseiged Vienna. Needless to say the Turks were slaughtered and from then on never caused any serious problems to the christian world.

The 18th century is a time of downfall, though it could've easily turned into the time of the second golden age.

Incompetent Kings, civil wars, foreign intervention, abusement of the democratic system led to the downfall of power and authority. Poland was a battle ground for Swedens and Russians.

This century also had it's good sides, the development of industry, the influence of american revolution etc...

Poland was partitioned in 1795 but the Poles never stop to fight. They fought for Napoleon and were his most elite and loyal troops. They stayed with him till the very end. Napoleon said at Sommosierra "Impossible? I do not know such word! There is nothing impossible for my Poles!". Jozef Poniatowski was Napoleons only foreign Field Marshall.

Two uprisings were organised in the 19th century, one in 1831 and one in 1863. Both were pacified within two years but this only proved that the Poles weren't and never will be rusified or germanised. Yet the governments of the partitioners did everything to make sure the Poles would quarrel...

WW1 is a turning point for Poland. Both sides promised the Poles an independant country in order for them to go to recruiting points. Approximataly 3 million Poles served under both banners in WW1. Most on the Eastern Front.

By this time a Polish Legion was formed and served the Austrians. These formations were very succesful in battle. When the Legion Commander Pilsudski noticed the Germans were loosing, he and his men withdrew their oath and were arrested. After the war the Polish Legions marched for Warsaw and disarmed german garrison soldiers and an independant Poland was formed.

Poland's history in a nutshell.

[Jools]

NOW, Why I think Poland should be in an official set.
------------------------------------------------------------------

-Renaissance and Baroque power
-Tolerant
-Military Power, great military tactics, far advanced.
-Science: From Copernicus(No, Mikolaj Kopernik was not German) to Curie(And she wasn't French!).
-Large cultural influence over Europe
-Parliamentary system
-Elected Kings
-Hussars
-Great Battles
-Extremely colorful and vibrant history
-Specific civilisation, different than anyother in Europe
-Great Leaders, Magnificent Generals and Statesmen
-First Pacifist Country in the world
-Polish fighting spirit
-Yoked off the Bolsheviks in 1921
-Also influential in the Baltic theatre post WW1 (helped Latvia form, sneak attacked Lithuania, Four Uprisings)
-Armia Krajowa, counted 320k soldiers. Espionage, sabotage and partisan brigades, fought against hitler during occupation, supplied the allies with information. The largest underground army.
-El Alamein, Tobruk, Battle for Britain, Monte Cassino, Lenino, Squadron 303. A lot for a country that is occupied.
-Modern Times: Peacefully throwing off the yoke of the Soviet Union and helping it collapse.

Now, wouldn't a Polish Civ be interesting in Civ3?

[Jools]

Leaders:
======

*Poland's most known leaders lived mostly in the 17th century. It is thanks to these people that Poland wasn't annexed 200 years earlier. These were truly great tactitians and strategists that could defeat much larger armies using their cunning and wit and their hussars . In the 17th century Polish leaders sprung out like mushrooms after rain .

Military Leaders:
-Boleslaw Chrobry (Monarch), many great military campaigns in Rus, Bohemia and Germany (11th century)
-Wladyslaw Lokietek (Monarch 14th century). Unified Poland, stopped Teutonic order.
-Wladyslaw Jagiello(Monarch 14-15th centuries). Fought against Tartars, Mongolians, Poles, Teutons mostly with succes.
-Prince Witold (Lithuanian Prince 14-15th centuries). Same as Jagiello, good commander, though hardly Polish...
-Piotr Dunin (General 15th century), great commander, excellent at seiging, fought against the Teutons in 14 year war.
-Stephen Bathory (Monarch 16th Century). His 16 years of power were short but in this time he proved to be one of the best monarchs and military leaders Poland had. Defeated Ivan IV the Terrible in the Northern War.
-Jan Zamoyski (Marshall, General, Statesmen 16-17th century). Very influential man, founded the city of Zamosc, defeated Austrian Archduke in 1588, Crowned Bathory and Sigismund Vasa. Good General, Great Statesmen.
-Stanislaw Zolkiewski (16-17th century). Great tactician, defeated the Russian army at Kluszyn with only 10,000 cavalry men and 1000 infantrymen. Died slaughtered by the Turks, seriously outnumberd in Cecora, Moldavia.
-Jan Karol Chodkiewicz (17th century). Another superb military leader, defeated the Swedes in 1605 in Kircholm with only 3000 hussars against 12000 Swedes. Died in 1621 defending a fortress beseiged by the Turks.
-Stefan Czarniecki (17th century General). Invented Partisan warfare -in poland at least. Great Cavalry commander. Crossed the frozen Baltic to Denmark to help them fight of the Swedes.
-Jan Weyher (17th Century Admiral). Defeated the Almighty Swedish fleet at Oliwa with a small but sturdy fleet.
-Jan III Sobieski (Monarch 17th Century). Called by the Turks the Lion from the North. Slaughtered them on numerous occasion, Chocim and Vienna.
-Tadeusz Kosciuszko (18th Century General). Honorary citizen of the USA, american colonel, Polish Hero. Defeated the Russians on numerous occasions with tiny armies at Dubienka. Humiliated the great Russian armies by defeating them with peasants armed with scythes. Mastered the use of fortifications.
-Jozef Poniatowski (18th-19th Century General). Nephew of the Last Polish King. Fought alongside Kosciuszko, defeated the Russians at Zielonka. Was Napoleons high ranking officer. Was Napoleons last Field Marshall.
-Jozef Pilsudski (20th century) Politician, General, Statesman. And very good at it.

[Mankind]

Jools that's the spirit

[Jools]

Pics...

Colored hussar (btw, Polish hussar and hungarian one are different)

[Jools]

P-37 Los (Elk) medium bomber, got the first award on
internetional exhibition in 1938. Its main constructor worked
in Apollo program after the war...