About the American Civilization......

[static]

Originally posted by joseph1944

Some of our so-called experts now say Jefferson's brother may have been the Father of those children. Actually we don't know what the truce is, btw who cares. Jefferson died in 1826 and that was a 175 years ago. Clinton is still alive I think or did he pass away last night?


Iraq invaded Kuwait, that started the recession. The Public stopped buying overnight.

Jefferson was rumored of this affair since he was in office, a few years back DNA proved he did. There is no reason to think his brother had an affair with Hemings.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/israel/familyjefferson.html

My point was that most presidents have had scandals, or some unsavory activity(they are politicians after all), and that Clinton's kind of problems have gone on since the beginning of the country.

Iraq invading Kuwait, started the recession???
How about HIGH unemployment, lack of investment in new technologies, and a president with a poor domestic policy. Bush handled the Gulf War nicely, but not the economy. "Read my lips, NO new taxes..."

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Look you guys, this is all OT

As for Civ leader, I think that Firaxis had to choose between Washington, Lincoln, and FDR (who are all from the left, should I add)

They choose Lincoln because Sid is a Civil War buff. FDR was by far the best president.

[mactbone]

Lincoln was the first Republican though, if you recall.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The man was a senile, doddering old fool. The national debt grew an average of 23.6% per year under his tenure, almost twice as fast as under his nearest competitor. His defense spending funded a boom which had to be paid for by the late 80s bust.

Check the avatar? Want a war?

Why did the national debt grow? Perhaps because of his and CIA Director Colby's plan to spend the Soviets into ruin. Hmmm, and it seemed to work too, didn't it? You could really see the cracks when the USSR had to increase military spending to match the US. And I wonder where you get this idea of a late 80s bust? The crash of '87? You mean the one that was reversed within a few weeks?

Any bust came in '91-'92, caused by President Bush's tax hikes, which decreased disposable income going into the economy in the form of consumption.

And yes, 8th, by a smattering of historians, law professors, and economists.

Eisenhower was brilliant???

Yes, brilliant is a good term. Talk to the history department of your nearest University 8/10 of the professors will say Eisenhower was one of the better Presidents in the US during the 20th Century. This is one thing conservatives and liberals agree one. Eisenhower's backing of the Interstate Highway Act, and his (reluctant, admittedly) sending in of the National Guard to Little Rock were two domestic wonders.

His foriegn policy was even better. He knew how to deal with the Soviets and did so very well. As stated, he knew what NOT to do!

It is common knowledge that the presidents who were former generals, made lousy presidents.

I didn't know that George Washington was a lousy President! What do you have to base this on? Grant? One General turned President is not so hot so they all suck?

the Federalist Society, notoriously so- hence the High ranking of Reagan.

Read the methodology? Or just see Federalist Society and your bias kicked in?

[Mister Pleasant]

They choose Lincoln because Sid is a Civil War buff. FDR was by far the best president.

Yeah, nothing like concentration camps during World War 2 to prove the rightness of the national cause. "But FDR got the people working again!" you say? So did Hitler and Pinochet. What great company for an American president to keep.

Sure, Lincoln was the first Republican president. But that's when religion in politics meant realizing Jesus wouldn't have owned slaves. Then the Republicans got taken over by Dixiecrat cast-offs from the Dems like Thurman and Helms - who apparently view african-americans as some form of obscelete farm equipment. (Thurman and Helms BOTH supported segregation! And they still got elected? The Carolinas must have too much lead in the water.)

[static]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

It is common knowledge that the presidents who were former generals, made lousy presidents.

I didn't know that George Washington was a lousy President! What do you have to base this on? Grant? One General turned President is not so hot so they all suck?

I completely overlooked George Washington as a former general, I guess I was so focused on Grant and Eisenhower that I forgot the most famous general of them all. I put Washington in my Top 3 which is a toss-up of Lincoln, Washington, and F.D.R.(My guess is Washington will be a Great Military Leader).

As for Eisenhower , I guess we will have to disagree.

I agree with you on Reagan, he was a good president, especially on foreign matters.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Remember, Ike also warned us about the Military/Industrial Complex. Imagine a President having such balls today !

[KrazyHorse]

Ike warned us about it, but Reagan managed to build it.

How 'bout the late 80s bust that lasted until the mid 90s?

[Warm Beer]

the Federalist Society, notoriously so- hence the High ranking of Reagan.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Read the methodology? Or just see Federalist Society and your bias kicked in?

Yes, as a matter of fact, I did read the methodology. I am quite certain if the ACLU and the Washington Post sponsored the same study, Reagan and Ike would not be nearly as prominate on the list.

Out of 130 scholars chosen, only 60% of them responded, it is very likely that the ones who chose not to respond were the more liberal ones. I'm sure the same could be said of conservatives for the theoretical ACLU/Washington Post study. OTOH, I'm have no concrete evidence to support this, but, as far a conjecture goes, I think it's a fairly sound deduction.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

In the 19th century, being a Republican meant being from the left, todays Democrats. The Democrats back then were todays Republicans. THey made a switch in names around the turn of the century.

Washington was a Federalist, which means that he supported a strong government. This idea is from the left also.

[TCO]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

How 'bout the late 80s bust that lasted until the mid 90s?

Where did you pull that out of? (be clean.)

[Dimorier Maximus]

Originally posted by static
Clinton is one of the worst Presidents in recent history???
So your saying he's worst than George Bush, Jimmy Carter, Ford, Nixon, L.B.J???

ummm....yeah.

Originally posted by static
He brought about a level of moral decline never seen before or since his time???
Oh, he's the reason... I stupidly thought abuse of drugs(illegal and legal), parental neglect, lack of responsibility(The it's somebody else's fault syndrome), scummy lawyers, bad movie sequels, and Barbra Streisand music, were the causes of moral decline...

Don't get me wrong, those definitely helped Clinton out quite a bit.

Originally posted by static
He made many lose respect for all Presidents in general???
So Jefferson who had slaves(and had affairs with them), and Nixon(need I say more..) never made anyone lose respect? I will agree that Clinton personally was scum, but MANY other presidents were.

Jefferson doesn't count so much; he was pre-Civil War. At least Nixon had the decency to resign.

Originally posted by static
"His" handling of the price of oil? Please, he's not OPEC or Alan Greenspan.
First off, Greenspan wasn't involved in oil. Second, perhaps I did overstate his influence, but the diplomatic relations we had with OPEC countries were instrumental with the low price of oil in the 90's.

Anyone with any advisors would have been just as successful???
Like George Bush and his advisors that led us into a recession .

OK, I was wrong, but so are you. The truth is that the economy is not controlled by any Prez (Clinton or Bush). Those scum-suckers just always take credit for it when it does well :cough: Clinton :cough:. Greenspan didn't do so well when Bush was Prez. Consumers weren't too confident either.

Originally posted by static
For female leader, God forbid we ever elect a woman President, but if I must choose, then I pick Jessica Simpson.
Now that's something everyone can agree on.

Yes, all in favor of making Jessica Simpson female leader of the Americans in Civ4 say, "I". And the I's have it!

[Dinner]

I must admite it was racist but the main reason the Black Army Air Corp unit didn't lose a single bomber was because they weren't allowed to fly against 1st or even 2nd order targets until the very end of the war. The white officer corp felt that to send black aviators up against defended German positions would only result in the destruction of U.S. aircraft. As a result the black unit never went head to head with Germany's best units.
Heck, they didn't even get to do a bombing mission over Berlin until a month or two before the Naxis surrendered. By then German air defences had been destroyed by 6 years of war. Sorry for an off topic post.

Originally posted by joseph1944

Maybe a lot of you don't know that Mrs. Roosevelt was one of the reason that the Black flyer had a change to fight during WW II to show how good they could be.
It is now a matter of records that they while flying cover for our Bomber, they never aloud one Bomber to be shot down by the German Air Force. No other Fighter Command can claim that.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kc7mxo
Greatest economic boom. The economic boom was alrady gaining strength s he went in to office. He merely didn't do anything to hinder it.

Sometimes having a polition who knows how to leave well enough alone is what makes him great.

[Madine]

Reagan wanted to reduce domestic spending, but the Democratic House of Representatives wouldn't allow it. Liberals who blame him for the deficits of the 80s are hypocritical.

Mr. Gorbechev, tear down this wall!

Perhaps only a senile person would stand up to the Soviet Union.

I think that Clinton will end up being remembered mainly for scandal and controversy and not for any political achivements.

Eisenhower wasn't brilliant or a great speaker, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a good president. His main strength as a military leader and as a president was that he was able to delegate responsiblity to people.