About the American Civilization......

[Melios]

I've been wondering this since the original Civ: Why Abraham Lincoln as the default leader? Why not Thomas Jefferson, who wrote most of the Declaration of Independence?

I also am a bit confused on why Civ2's default American female leader was Eleanor Roosevelt.

[Tarquinius]

Well, I think I'd rather have George Washington as default leader of the Americans, because he was the first president. But Abraham Lincoln isn't a bad choice in my opinion.
But not Thomas Jefferson, he wasn't even a president!!

And about the female leader, the Americans didn't have one, so they had to think of something

[saracen31]

Ummm...Thomas Jefferson was the 3rd president of the US. Of course he was president!

[jsw363]

Originally posted by saracen31
Ummm...Thomas Jefferson was the 3rd president of the US.

Umm.... I hope that this is a joke.

About the Lincoln debate, well I would prefer Washington, but Lincoln's a close second. Yep, there hasn't ever been a female president and no woman has had a significant impact on US history, so they had to choose someone... (And just so I dont get a bunch of angry feminist e-mails, there have been some female leaders, but no female has ever really commanded the nation)Guess Eleanor was the best they could do.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by jsw363
Umm.... I hope that this is a joke.

Umm, why?

American Presidents:

1.George Washington : 1789-1797
2.John Adams : 1797-1801
3.Thomas Jefferson : 1801-1809
4.James Madison : 1809-1817
5.James Monroe : 1817-1825

[Martinus]

Originally posted by jsw363
About the Lincoln debate, well I would prefer Washington, but Lincoln's a close second. Yep, there hasn't ever been a female president and no woman has had a significant impact on US history, so they had to choose someone...

:hmm: I can name at least 4 from Clinton's presidency:

1. Hillary
2. Madelaine Albright
3. Janet Reno

4. ...Monica

[static]

Abe Lincoln, George Washington, or F.D.R., all would make great choices, but Washington probably will be a great leader.

Eleanor Roosevelt was the female leader because during the late years of WW2 she played a major in running America as F.D.R.'s health was failing. For a while 'in a way' she was the president.

[monkspider]

There aren't any significant women in America's history huh?That's a bigger joke than Jefferson not being president!

-Susan B Anthony
- Rosa Parks
- Elizabeth Cady Stanton
- Amelia Earhart
- Mary Stone

Plus a ton of great Authors, scientists, poets, etc etc

And I do speak this as a man!

[joseph1944]

Originally posted by static
Abe Lincoln, George Washington, or F.D.R., all would make great choices, but Washington probably will be a great leader.

Eleanor Roosevelt was the female leader because during the late years of WW2 she played a major in running America as F.D.R.'s health was failing. For a while 'in a way' she was the president.

Maybe a lot of you don't know that Mrs. Roosevelt was one of the reason that the Black flyer had a change to fight during WW II to show how good they could be.
It is now a matter of records that they while flying cover for our Bomber, they never aloud one Bomber to be shot down by the German Air Force. No other Fighter Command can claim that.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, I'd like Jefferson as the American leader. That would be very cool.

However, at the same time, I think that the American leader should be from the 20th Century. The US became powerful in the 1900s, and especially during the latter end of Franklin Roosevelt's administration (WW2).

[monolith94]

Tomas Jefferson would make a great leader; he wrote the Decleration of Indipendence, and was a great President, opening up the West to American expansion by buying the Louisiana purchase from France.

Washington was just a big ole stick in the mud.

[Felch]

Didn't Woodrow Wilson's wife take over after his stroke? I seem to recall something along those lines.

Although I don't like Lincoln as the leader, I think the reason may be that he created the United States as we know it today, which is one with a powerful central government and weak states.

I think that the herald in Civ2 should have been a businessman instead of some goofy redneck though. More a sign of America's international influence.

I do agree with it being Thomas Jefferson, although some people might view slaveholders as being a bit out of place. Possibly JFK?

[jsw363]

Locutus-

You're right. So sorry. Guess my US history isn't as good as I thought it was. I think I was thinking of Franklin, who everyone thinks was preseident, but never was. Anyways, mea culpa.

As for:

- Hillary Clinton
- Madelaine Albright
- Janet Reno
- Susan B Anthony
- Rosa Parks
- Elizabeth Cady Stanton
- Amelia Earhart
- Mary Stone

All of them were brilliant women, but I just don't think that there's a convincing argument to be made that any of them had a significant impact on the history of the United States.

Clinton was only elected to public office after she achieved fame (or infamy) because of her husband's presidency. Her futile attempt at health care reform might have been significant had it not failed.

Albright was Secretary of State for four years and really didn't make any important policy decisions. She hasn't held elected office and didn't formulate a clear foreign policy for the US in the Post Cold War.

Reno's highest elected office was State Attorney of Florida (not super impressive) and has yet to really have a significant impact on much of the American legal system besides her dealings with a certain Cuban boy and a failed impeachment attempt, certainly NOT defining moments in US history.

Anthony and Cady Stanton are at least reasonable possibilities, but they really only were concerned with one issue, women's sufferage. Yes, this was important in the history of teh US, but I think that there have been MANY other leaders with a much more significant impact than these two.

Parks did help to spawn the civil rights movement, but was more of an icon than a leader. I think that Dr. King is a much better example of a civil rights leader.

Earheart was little more than a pilot (Correct me if I'm wrong) Certainly a brave and intriguing woman, but hardly a leader.

Haven't even heard of Stone, so can't refute that one...

I don't mean to diminish any of these women's accomplishments; all are incredible people. I just don't think that any of them are really American leaders. Parks and Anthony perhaps, but they still don't convince me.

[Inverse Icarus]

Reagan

[joseph1944]

Originally posted by UberKruX
Reagan

Reagan did some good and some bad in my view.
Stoping the spread of Communism in Central America, our Congress did not want to stop it. Cutting Taxes.
Bad; Removing the retirement age on Federal working from 70 to whatever, Firing the Aircraft Controller, making Federal Employee paid for Medicare without allowing it to be a tax deduction. Cap our paid for 2 year w/o a raise.