No Spanish Civ????

[Jay Bee]

Martinus, you summarized it up pretty well in your last post. The point is not whether you like/hate the Spanish. The point is that for a game that pretends to re-write history, not to include the Spanish is a glaring mistake. So is not to include a few other civs. Arguing against the Spanish not being one of the most influential civs in all of world's history is absurd. Now, you may or may not agree in terms of playability, "Eurocentrism", marketing purposes, potential fun, who-cares-this-is-a-game, don't-worry-there-will-be-a-patch, etc

The rest is an absurd pseudohistorical discussion plagued with loads of ignorance, distorted facts, arrogance, and an infantile but amusing obsession to create friction on the part of a reduced number of posters.


EDIT: spelling

[Ribannah]

Jay Bee, you asked why Spain was not included in Civ3's 16 civilizations. Some of us replied. Now, you may ignore the facts as much as you want, and you are entitled to your own opinion regardless. But you can no longer say that you don't know why.

There will most likely be expansion packs, including more civilizations. After all, Firaxis has to make a living. The Spanish make a decent candidate to be included when that time comes - but so do other influential tribes. Being modest would improve your chances IMHO.

Addendum: as a bonus, I leave you with this citation:

"The Hopis enjoyed this peaceful way of life, until around 1540, when a group of Spanish explorers led by Coronado first came to this region. Spanish missionaries tried to convert the natives, while the soldiers and explorers looked for any way to exploit them. During this time, the neighboring Navajo tribe began to come under pressure from the Spanish as well, and they began attacking the Spanish as well as the Hopi and other neighboring tribes. The Hopi people were forced to fight for their survival. This long period of fighting lasted until 1824 when Spain recognized Mexico and the Hopi lands were given to the new Mexican government."

[Estilpón]

The spanish was the FIRST power that established colonies arround ALL the world.

Ribannah: Ok about natives, but I can see the south-americans natives now, however, the natives of nord-america...

[Jay Bee]

Estilpón.

Don't waste your time. You know the Arabic saying, "Dogs are barking. That means WE are moving forward".

As a bonus, I leave you with another Arabic saying "There is no worse blindness than that from the one who refuses to see".


These are Spanish-Arabic sayings, of course of course


PS. Check you personal messages, plis (last light bulb, on the bottom of the page)

[Grumbold]

The only reasons I can think of excluding Spain are that within their 16 Civ limit they also wanted a balance between the cultural groups too. A lot of important nations were competing for the same small cultural group while others like the Babylonians got an easier ride. If Firaxis take the time and trouble to release new Civs on their website (not ripping us off with an expansion pack) including all the leader art etc that player mods are less likely to invest in, I would expect Spain to be one of the top candidates.

[splangy]

i really think spain is out becouse A) its empire lated only a few hundred years B) What would be there UU? conquestadors would be the first to come to mind but they werent really units on the scale civ2 is on. personally im glad there out and dont plan on taking out any civs to put theres in much better ones come to mind that were just much more glorius than than there's, like the polish, turkish, austrian, america (my version, take away expansionist and add industrialist) etc.. to bad they couldn't have just given us a **** load of cookie cutters with the ability to give them uniqueness.

[Footie Mad]

Never forget the swedes splangy, never ever.

[kittenOFchaos]

Estilpón the Portuguese were up and running in term of worldwide colonies (by your definition, which is VERY loose) before Spain...the Spanish didn't effect asia much (apart from the phillipines) and managed not to find australia!


Why doesn't Fraxis explain themselves instead of us kittens having to tell you some reasons that may justify the exclusion of Spain (I think that last sentence isn't hysterical enough...I'll think of something to edit it too).

[Waku]

Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
the Spanish didn't effect asia much (apart from the phillipines) and managed not to find australia!

http://www.internetezy.com.au/~mj129/strangephenomenon.html

http://www.internetezy.com.au/~mj129/carving_a_new_history.html

[Ribannah]

Doube post, no idea how that happened .

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Estilpón
Ok about natives, but I can see the south-americans natives now, however, the natives of nord-america...

Yep, that wasn't pretty either. I just read about a single tribe: 500 treaties made, NONE of them honoured by the USA. In fact, almost half never got ratified - now where did we hear that last part before, recently? .
But, that was after the colony (colonies) became independent, and since Firaxis did include the USA as a separate civ we can't blame the English & friends .

P.S.: never mind JB, who doesn't know the difference between a dog and a cat

Waku: nice link
I like such speculation, but let's not forget that that's all it is. Besides, it's only a discovery (by a civilization) if the news is brought home! I'm inclined to believe that the Chinese knew about (the coastline of) Australia though, that
part makes sense. Who knows, maybe the Ethiopians knew as well, as they controlled much of the southern maritime trade.

[kittenOFchaos]

http://www.internetezy.com.au/~mj129/spaniards.jpg

nice picture of a spanish soldier LOL!

So the spanish discovered it and forgot to come back and do anything with it...hmm

So what australian loot they bring back (marsupails etc?) hmm?

Note the site title as the: Psychic Australian June 1976

Influence of Spain on Australia AT MOST then one ****ty rock carving...and then effect of discovery...people discovered it again A LONG TIME LATER (I'm certain spanish cartography was decent!)

[Waku]

THANK YOU

He, he it's quite funny to notice how paranoid about Spain still are some people (it's remarkable to see they are mainly dutch/brits/yanks, old spanish enemies), the best argument to demonstrate that Spain shoud have been in BTW.
There's nothing to fear from Spain now, we're only a second row country (we keep on going to work on a donkey)
The only purpose of this threads was to make as much noise as possible, we couldn't do it without your unvaluable help. THANK YOU

[Stefan Härtel]

Hey, people, why don't you stop this bashing?
It appears like noone has learnt anything.
I understand and agree with the viewpoint of the Spanish posters here, and I sympathize with their effort of defending themselves and their country and culture which they rightfully love and are proud of.
I also recognize that not everybody agrees with this. If there is anything stereotype here, it's the education of everybody to this old-new world dualism.
I am schocked however to see that the people here are actually flaming themselves.
I, as a German, could feel just as offended. A couple of weeks ago there was a collumn which mentioned the ideal civ-specific unit for the Germans as the Panzers. In my opinion there would be others that would be even more significant for the German civilization. but I didn't complain, because, even if we all agree that this is a tremendously fun and creative way to spend our free time, hell, it's just a game, and if it becomes the object of international arguments we'll never be able to live together. Yes, this sounds pathetic, I agree, but as a matter of fact this phrase was quoted from an American song. Not a communist one but one I learnt at school over there. Interestingly enough it is precisely the Americans and Canadians who are the most aggressive ones here.

My two cents to that topic.

[Grumbold]

Just write a 1550 A.D. Scenario and take great pleasure in giving the biggest and best parts of the map to the Spanish. If you need to replace civ's to get your custom ones in, then you will have the pleasure of erasing the other countries that don't even exist during your heyday