Civs included. Just the facts madam 2.

[Ecthy]

2 replies, 2 statements....

kassiopeia, even if they had already done the whole animation, it might be possible they changed their minds and decided on a new one... if there are significant reasons to change the leader (like those already counted by other posters), a lot of already done work won't be a hindrance for dumping it and creating a new animation..... quality has its price

[Alexander I]

Now we're getting somewhere! So if this theory is correct, the English leader is either Elizabeth I or Victoria. Do we have any proof to certify either one as the choice? All I know is that the Elizabeth portrait seems to be far more widely circulated.

[Ecthy]

Is that supposed to be a decent post?

yeah, any proof? maybe we should engage some specialists on european history... reminds me, didn't some other posters already recognize the ladies?

[Alexander I]

No. All I'm saying is that if anyone has any evidence about whether the English leader will be the Elizabeth portrait or the Victoria portrait they should tell us. How would European history specialists be necessary in this instance. Or did you misunderstand what I wrote?

[jsw363]

All indications point to Elizabeth since she's the leader who's animated. It would be much less likely that they would dump a leader after animation. As for the alleged Victoria, all we have is a portrait, so as I said above it's much more likely that Fireaxis dumped her since they had less time invested. Also Elizabeth appears in more recent previews/ reviews and the other portrait is many months old.

All of that is contingent of course on the fact that the picture in question is in fact Victoria. While I think that it looks most like Victoria (more than Catherine or Maria Theresa), I don't think that we can safely assume that. Obviously anyone who has more information or who can make out the figure should contribute.

I for one would like some art history major/ European historian to clarify the issue, but I don't think that it's possible. All this stuff about multiple leaders, multiple female leaders is pure speculation and should be disregarded. I think that we should drop this for now and focus on some other civs.

[Ecthy]

Ich wusste nicht, dass Germany is situated in den USA.

I never knew Deutschland befindet sich in the USA.

[Alexander I]

jsw363- I am a history major and I can't clarify it any more than I already have. As I originally said, it looks like Victoria. But I agree, let's move on.

and Ecthelion-

I am merely referring to the fact that I am both a German and a US citizen. And frankly, I didn't know they had started the 4th Reich over in Germany, or that they'd made YOU emperor!

[SerapisIV]

Firaxis' webpage lists their leader screenshot as Elizabeth, and I doubt there are 2 animated leaders per civ, especially two female leaders in the same civ.

[Gangerolf]

It has to be Catherine the Great.

I'm pretty sure the portrait is of Catherine. I don't think they would replace civ1&2's Elisabeth with Victoria, and I doubt Maria Theresa will be the German leader.

Ich wusste nicht, dass Germany is situated in den USA.

A bit OT: Have you finally quit using the ß in German(y)?

[Kassiopeia]

As a student of German, I can tell you that yes, it has been taken out of use.

[Gangerolf]

That sucks. This happened recently? Why??
I mean, "daß" looks way better than "dass".
Ich weiß, daß ß macht spaß.

[Kassiopeia]

It's mainly because people were confused, where to use that Beta character and when to use "ss". But I'm sure it was easy with two-part words, so that there wouldn't be three "s"'s in a row like they have now.

[Lung]

Originally posted by Admiral PJ
The spanish must be in..

Absolutely. If Firaxis are even considering excluding the Spanish, then they are an absolute joke!! The Iroquios is bad enough, being included purely in order to be politically correct. However, the Confederates being included would be even more ridiculous.

Why doesn't Firaxis make each of the U.S. states a civ, and include the English as a token gesture so they can still sell the game in the U.K.? Go the whole hog, Firaxis! Make Civ3 a complete farce!! I mean, what's the point of having a civ game if facts are considered to be so bothersome?? If it's so important to have these so-called civs in, then they should have more civs! But if they're going to restrict the civs to 16, then they must restrict the civs to civs which had a profound bearing on human history. The very thought of including civs for no other reason than for commercial gain is absurd!!

If the Iroquios must be in (and they will be), the Zulus can make way for them, as their empire was flaky in terms of world impact, at least compared to the other civs. Considering that they're considering excluding the Mongols and Vikings, surely the Zulus are on shaky ground!!

[Alexander I]

In regards to the ess-zet "ss" vs. "Beta" problem in German, unless they've changed it in the last two months, words where the ess-zet follows a short vowel have two s's, while words with a long vowel have an ess-zet.

But back to civs! I believe that Firaxis is attempting to include many major civilizations while still including token minority civs from different races and regions. Hence, Zulus are in because there's no one from Africa besides them, (unless you count Egypt, but that probably wouldn't satiate the NAACP) and the Vikings are not because the English, French, and Germans already are.
That's also why the Iroquois are in. Does anyone know why they changed from Sioux to Iroquois? That would be interesting!

[Alexander I]

I just saw one of the semi-new screenshots on one of the website previews. It was a worldview of the Roman civilization during a diplomatic meaning with Alexander of the Greeks. The name in the lower right hand corner of the screen said "Emperor Connor of the Romans." I suppose that would be an edited name for the playing civ's leader. It looked to me like Connor or Comitor though I could be going nearsighted and it said Caesar. check it out for yourselves at gamespot.com (I think).