Civs included. Just the facts madam 2.

[Locutus]

Sabre2th,
I counted 4 different games from the latest series of screenshots from PC Zone alone (the radar maps and positions of cities in relation to each other give a good impression of which shots are from the same game). All older screenshots total at the very least another 4.

Gramphos,
Actually, I find it not very likely that the colors will still get fixed if they aren't already (which we do not know: we haven't seen 8+ civs in action yet, to our knowledge): only 8 colors are needed (16 isn't officially supported) and the game could hit beta any moment now, after which Firaxis will just be fixing bugs, playbalancing and taking care of other minor details. Yes, colors could be one of these things, but why bother if it's not supposed supported anyway and you want to ship before Christmas?



So far, based on our evidence, we know that:

100% CONFIRMED. These civs ARE in CIV 3:

1. AMERICANS - Leader (Abraham Lincoln; 100% confirmed), city names (capital), Unique Unit (F15) -> Light blue
2. GERMANS - Unique Unit (Panzer), city names (capital), multiple text references, video reference -> Dark blue
3. CHINESE - Leader (Mao Zedong; 100% confirmed), city names -> Light blue
4. ROMANS - Leader (C. Julius Ceasar), city name (capital), Unique Unit (Legion), video reference -> Red
5. FRENCH - Leader (Joan of Arc(?); 100% confirmed), city names (capital), dialogue window of the French (Unique Unit: Musketeer?) -> Pink
6. RUSSIANS - Unique Unit (MiG), city names -> Grey
7. ZULUS - Unique Unit (Impi), city names -> Yellow
8. ENGLISH - Leader (Elisabeth I; 100% confirmed), (Unique Unit: Man-at-Arms?)
9. EGYPTIANS - Leader (100% pharaoh, does anyone know who this is?), definite text reference, city names (capital) -> Yellow
10. INDIANS - Leader (Mahatma Ghandi; 100% confirmed)
11. JAPANESE (95%) - Leader (here - Hat and characters on collar are Japanese), possible Unique Unit (Samurai) (see 17)
12. IROQUOIS - Leader (Hiawatha; 100% confirmed), city names, text references, Unique Unit (75% Unique Unit - 25% Military Leader) -> Grey
13. GREEKS - Leader (Alexander the Great, city names (capital), possible Unique Unit (Hoplite), text reference, video reference -> Green


EVIDENCE ABOUT OTHER CIVS (which means they could be in or not):

14. PERSIANS - City names (capital) -> Brown?
15. BABYLONIANS - City name -> Red
16. AZTECS - City names -> Pink
17. MONGOLS (5%) - There's a small chance Firaxis made some mistakes with the Leader; if so, it is a Mongol rather than a Japanese Leader (see 11)


SUGGESTIONS BASED ON CLUES (weak clues but we report them):

18. SPANISH - City name: Salamanca, but it was once a Roman city and there's also an Iroquois city with that name.
19. VIKINGS (?) Very weak clues. See above mention URL for the boat: Viking Longboat?
20. ISRAELIS. Apolytoner Eli has pointed out that according to a israeli site, Israel is in.
21. CANADIANS. City name (Montreal). The city name is NOT on the map, but on a civ 3 window.
22. CONFEDERATES. As refered to in a swedish article, a Great Military Leader in Civ 3 could be Stonewell Jackson. Apolytoner Arator argued that this leader is impossible to be in the same civ as Lincoln (=100% confirmed leader of the Americans). Many other Apolytoners disagree though, arguing that he's more likely to be an American, among other reasons because (as joseph1944 pointed out) he served for the American Army before joinging the Confederates.
23. PHOENICIANS. Based on a single text reference in a preview.


----------------------------------------------------------------
The evidence is categorized as such:

Leader= We have a picture of the leader of the corresponting civ.
Unique Unit= We know that the particular unique unit belongs to the corresponding civ
Text reference= The civ has been mentioned by Firaxis in their web site or in interviews by their CEO
Video reference= The civ was seen in Firaxis demo movie from E3.
City names= The names of cities that clearly belong to the corresponding civ are included in scrrenshots of the game
All other clues= All other clues are reported next to the civ name.
-> Color= Indicates in which color(s) the civ has been seen in in-game screenshots.

-------------------------FACTS & POINTERS-----------------------

* Firaxis officially stated that the number of civs that is playable per game will officially be 8. However, it will be possible to increase this number to 16 through the editing tools. Firaxis made no official statement on the total number of civs that will be included in the game but this aforementioned statement and the fact that all previews agree on this issue make it very likely that this number will be 16.
* Based on this info and all available screenshots it can be concluded that the Civs are very likely to be tied to color. There appear to be 8 colors in the game, with 2 civs tied to each color. Note that none of this is official.
* The city names in the screenshots can be from an extra city names list or could have been arbitrarily written be members of Firaxis. So city names in screenshots don't guarantee that a civ will be in. Examples: Kerplakistan and Huntsville, possibly others.
* Another problem could be scenarios. Though city names alone are not enough evidence to include a civ on the 100% certain list and scenario-specific graphics are not likely to be made public until the game is in late beta (if they even exist at all), it's quite possible that some of the evidence we used in this list is based on scenario specific information and not be valid for the regular game.

[Gramphos]

Locutus,
I never said that I thought that the colors would change. I just said that it is possible. What I think is that the colors are final.

[Locutus]

Sorry, the fact that 'fixed' can have two different meanings in this context ('repaired' and 'unchangable') confused me

[JellyDonut]

16 is a good number because 30-something civs would be very confusing for the player (whoops, I shouldnt have attacked. Luxemburg is a slightly lighter blue.) A good WW2 scenario on a world map would need 13-14 civs at most.

[Locutus]

Actually, 30+ civs is quite possible color-wise, the CtP series proved this. Of course, the standard color pattern Activision provided didn't work very well (after civ 16 all civs had a slightly different shade of green), but after some modding one could easily have 32 distinctly different colors. Sure, there were two or three different versions of every 'primary' color (blue, red, green, brown, gray, etc) but they were still different enough to be easily kept apart.

[JellyDonut]

I have never played CTP, but I imagine it must have been confusing trying to remember who is at war with whom and with whom you have peace treaties or are allied, etc. and with improved diplomacy like military alliances, trade embargoes, free passage treaties, you'd have to get out paper and a pencil to keep track of it all if there were that many civs.

[Locutus]

Ain't that what diplomacy screens/advisors are for? In CtP2 you only have to press F7 and you'll get a full overview of your diplomatic status with known civs (until the modern age you usually don't even know all of them). Also, some civs are larger and more important than others and some civs always die early on, so you only bother to remember the status of your most important opponents, as far as they are still alive.

[Gramphos]

But Morris said they couldn't get in more then 8 civs into the advisor screens without messing them up...

How could CtP have that?
And keep in mind that the Resolution of Civ3 will be 1024x768 while answering to this. They must have a lot of info/civ if they can't get in more then 8 in one screen.
Wait, I just realized that they probably not show the own civ, that would move the number down to 7

[Locutus]

Hmm, the word 'screen' must be confusing for non-CtP players. In CtP the words 'screen' and 'window' are often messed up. The screen I'm talking about requires a scrollbar to review *all* civs. I think about 5 civs can be shown at the same time, though some simple UI modifications can probably increase this to roughly 15 (I didn't bother to max this out as I don't often play with 10+ civs). Some scrolling never hurt anyone though but even if it did, a slightly different setup from the CtP2 one should make displaying 30 odd civs simultaneously on 1024x768 possible as well.

[Bereta_Eder]

THE JAPANESE?? I'll be damned!!!

I always thought (that means idea not based on concrete evidence) that it was Ghengkis and the Mongols!!

Oh well, I'm as happy as Locutus this dillema is coming near a closure

BTW, there seems to be a vacuum of new info by Firaxis as to what relates to our list. Guess there are up to their heads working on the game. Good

[Solver]

I'd like more info and more scrolling, rather than less info and less scrolling.

[lockstep]

The June 2001 pcgamer preview includes the picture of a female leader (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3image..._pcgamer01.jpg). Looks pretty much like Catherine the Great for me. So she would be the Russian leader.

[Alexander I]

Or it could be Maria Theresa of the Germans...

[Alexander I]

By the way, out Japanese Shogun buddy is almost certainly Tokugawa Ieyasu. The Egyptian Pharaoh- if it's a woman (I can't tell by looking) would be Cleopatra or Hatshepsut.

And someone mentioned Julius Caesar. has anyone seen his pic? Where? Or was it just Alexander?

[joseph1944]

Originally posted by Locutus

BTW, Joseph, I guess this is off-topic but I don't know where else to post it. You mentioned a couple of times in this thread that 'no one really knows how long the Polynesians have been on the Pacific Islands'. I did some research on Polynesia (unrelated to this thread) and discovered that this is in fact incorrect, it is very well known: they started inhabiting the Pacific from 1500 BC onwards (from Asia) and had all islands colonized by 1000 AD. Two good sources are http://www.pbs.org/wayfinders/polynesian2.html and http://www.iaora.com/NatHist/Polynesian_history.htm.

Thank you. I was watching the History Channel one day and they were talking about the Polynesian, but jump around the dates. That is why I did not have a date.