Civs included. Just the facts madam 2.

[Gangerolf]

I bet they're including the same civs as in civ1 + Iroquois and Persians.

[JellyDonut]

When will the next summary be posted? Hmm, Locutus hasn't said when. Must be October then (harmlessly poking fun at the optimists ) but I hope it comes out in 2008 (harmlessly poking fun at the pessimists ).

[Wernazuma III]

Soory that I have to quote a post a little bit back:

Originally posted by Locutus
should it focus on conquest (ala the Germans), trade (ala the Dutch) or colonization (English)? Should they be aggressive backstabbers (Germans) or trustworthy diplomats (Dutch)?

And you're the one who wanted to prevent Arab-Jew bashing? Isn't that just a little bit offending stereotyping to germans?

[Eli]

Arab-Jew bashing? Where? Where? Where?

[JellyDonut]

Sometimes I'd like to put a giant speaker in downtown Jerusalem playing the song "Why can't we be friends?"

[Mark_Lipovrovskiy]

Alas, my friend, that speaker will start playing "Plastic Explosives" shortly thereafter. Besides, the majority of the troblemaking Palestinians don't know English. And many of the Jews in question.

[JellyDonut]

Further research on the character leads me to believe that it and the next character are beginning to spell the word "mayonaka" meaning "midnight." However, the second character is less readable than the first because it is in the light and part of it is cut off at the bottom of the image, so this theory may very well be incorrect.

[Locutus]

Very good job, JellyDonut, excellent research! That Unicode thing does indeed look very much like the character on the collar. I agree that this, combined with Colon's observation about the hat, makes it very likely indeed that this leader is Japanese.
However, because this is such a controversial issue (Firaxis could still have screwed things up), I don't think it's appropriate yet to conclude that the Japanese are 100% certain. I can't imagine many people would still doubt it at this point but in this case particularly it would be wise to wait for more evidence (a city name, a text reference, anything goes), since we really only have 1 piece of evidence to go on. In the same way we had the 'obligation' to mention the Confederates and Canadians, I think we now 'have to' keep the Mongol option open. I hope everyone can agree with the way I adapted the summary...

Teeks,

simply goofing around [...] having a little bit of fun

I think that's exactly what paiktis was trying to say when he wrote 'could have been arbitrarily written be members of Firaxis' in the summary.

Gangerolf,
That's what I thought too for a long time but now the Mongols are (almost certainly) out this theory no longer holds.

JellyDonut,
Patience, my good friend. I can't be online 24-7 (contrary to some people, right Eli? ), there's this little thing that keeps me from doing so, it's called a 'life'

Wernazuma,
Well, I think most Germans will realize that the history of their Prussian ancestors and esp. some German morons in WWI&II didn't exactly do their reputation any good. Any German will know that the average German citizen is no more aggressive or backstabbing than the average Dutchman is trustworthy or diplomatic, it's just that some of their past leaders were. Germans have fulfilled the role of bad guys in many games (both civ and non-civ) before, it's no more insulting than giving these properties to the Zulu, Mongol or Aztec: as long as it's within the context of a game, it's harmless. I live very close to the Dutch-German border and know many Germans myself, some of them are good friends of mine. Insulting Germans would be insulting my friends and neighbours, so a Dutch-German flamewar is out of the question as far as I'm concerned. Also, the Dutch-German relationship isn't always very good but still a lot less 'emotional' than the Arab-Jew relationship. In conclusion, when I think of trade and colonization I always immediately think of slavery - and the maltreatment and stuff that came with it - as well, so I wasn't exactly flattering the Dutch (can you say apartheid?) and English either (though maybe not as explicit).



So far, based on our evidence, we know that:

100% CONFIRMED. These civs ARE in CIV 3:

1. AMERICANS - Leader (Abraham Lincoln; 100% confirmed), city names (capital), Unique Unit (F15) -> Light blue
2. GERMANS - Unique Unit (Panzer), city names (capital), multiple text references, video reference -> Dark blue
3. CHINESE - Leader (Mao Zedong; 100% confirmed), city names -> Light blue
4. ROMANS - Leader (C. Julius Ceasar), city name (capital), Unique Unit (Legion), video reference -> Red
5. FRENCH - Leader (Joan of Arc(?); 100% confirmed), city names (capital), dialogue window of the French (Unique Unit: Musketeer?) -> Pink
6. RUSSIANS - Unique Unit (MiG), city names -> Grey
7. ZULUS - Unique Unit (Impi), city names -> Yellow
8. ENGLISH - Leader (Elisabeth I; 100% confirmed), (Unique Unit: Man-at-Arms?)
9. EGYPTIANS - Leader (100% pharaoh, does anyone know who this is?), definite text reference, city names (capital) -> Yellow
10. INDIANS - Leader (Mahatma Ghandi; 100% confirmed)
11. JAPANESE (95%) - Leader (here - hat and characters on collar are Japanese), possible Unique Unit (Samurai) (see 17)
12. IROQUOIS - Leader (Hiawatha; 100% confirmed), city names, text references, Unique Unit (75% Unique Unit - 25% Military Leader) -> Grey
13. GREEKS - Leader (Alexander the Great, city names (capital), possible Unique Unit (Hoplite), text reference, video reference -> Green


EVIDENCE ABOUT OTHER CIVS (which means they could be in or not):

14. PERSIANS - City names (capital) -> Brown?
15. BABYLONIANS - City name -> Red
16. AZTECS - City names -> Pink
17. MONGOLS (5%) - There's a small chance Firaxis made some mistakes with the Leader; if so, it is a Mongol rather than a Japanese Leader (see 11)


SUGGESTIONS BASED ON CLUES (weak clues but we report them):

17. SPANISH - City name: Salamanca, but it was once a Roman city and there's also an Iroquois city with that name.
18. VIKINGS (?) Very weak clues. See above mention URL for the boat: Viking Longboat?
19. ISRAELIS. Apolytoner Eli has pointed out that according to a israeli site, Israel is in.
20. CANADIANS. City name (Montreal). The city name is NOT on the map, but on a civ 3 window.
21. CONFEDERATES. As refered to in a swedish article, a Great Military Leader in Civ 3 could be Stonewell Jackson. Apolytoner Arator argued that this leader is impossible to be in the same civ as Lincoln (=100% confirmed leader of the Americans). Many other Apolytoners disagree though, arguing that he's more likely to be an American, among other reasons because (as joseph1944 pointed out) he served for the American Army before joinging the Confederates.
22. PHOENICIANS. Based on a single text reference in a preview.


--------------------------------------------------------
The evidence is categorized as such:

Leader= We have a picture of the leader of the corresponting civ.
Unique Unit= We know that the particular unique unit belongs to the corresponding civ
Text reference= The civ has been mentioned by Firaxis in their web site or in interviews by their CEO
Video reference= The civ was seen in Firaxis demo movie from E3.
City names= The names of cities that clearly belong to the corresponding civ are included in scrrenshots of the game
All other clues= All other clues are reported next to the civ name.
-> Color= Indicates in which color(s) the civ has been seen in in-game screenshots.

-------------------------CIV FACTS-----------------------

+ Firaxis said they made NO official announcement regarding the number of civs that may or may not be included in the game.
+ In a Gamespot article its says that civs will be 16.
+ An israeli site says that civs will be 16
+ In an IGN preview it says that there will be 16 civs.
+ By now, many other sources have also claimed that the total number of civs in Civ3 will be 16.

--------------------------POINTERS-------------------------

* The city names in the screenshots can be from an extra city names list or could have been arbitrarily written be members of Firaxis. So city names in screenshots doesn't guarantee that a civ will be in. Examples: Kerplakistan and Huntsville, possibly others.
* Another problem could be scenarios. Though city names alone are not enough evidence to include a civ on the 100% certain list and scenario-specific graphics are not likely to be made public until the game is in late beta (if they even exist at all), it's quite possible that some of the evidence we used in this list is based on scenario specific information and not be valid for the regular game.

[JellyDonut]

Good list!

However I think the Vikings should be removed. These screenshots show the "Viking longboat" clearly in the possession of other civs:

http://www.civfanatics.com/cgi-bin/autoimage.cgi?/civ3images/pcgp-screen3.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.com/cgi-bin/autoimage.cgi?/civ3images/civ3image18.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.com/cgi-bin/autoimage.cgi?/civ3images/civ3image17.jpg

[Sabre2th]

Originally posted by JellyDonut
Good list!

However I think the Vikings should be removed. These screenshots show the "Viking longboat" clearly in the possession of other civs:

http://www.civfanatics.com/cgi-bin/autoimage.cgi?/civ3images/pcgp-screen3.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.com/cgi-bin/autoimage.cgi?/civ3images/civ3image18.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.com/cgi-bin/a...iv3image17.jpg

It is quite true that other civs have that unit, but we also know that the Viking longboat unit was a guess. Keep in mind that CTP had a generalized longboat unit for all civs. Civ3 may do the same thing.

[JellyDonut]

I havent played CTP so I didnt know that.
The reason I posted was exactly that. KrazyHorse had a krazy idea that the Vikings (with the longboat special unit) were in with the sole evidence of a picture of that boat, but it appears to be a unit that all civs can build, unless the Vikings are in and very generous about giving out longboats .

[Sabre2th]

It's also possible that the longboat was bribed away from the Vikings

[JellyDonut]

Perhaps, but its still a longshot to claim the existence of a civ based on the exisence of a boat which look like it could be a special unit but could easily not be and that all those shots (and I think there's more) were coincidentally the result of bribery/giving. But it adds merit to the Canadian argument...maybe all those "knights" are Canadian border patrol guards that were given/bribed.

[Sabre2th]

I'll admit that the bribe is a longshot and I agree that the Viking argument is very unlikely

You lost me with all the Canadian border patrol stuff. I must've missed something.

[JellyDonut]

Its an analogy/joke. I was saying if the Canadians are in, maybe their special unit is the mounted border patrol guard and they're given away/bribed to the other civs, but everybody assumes they're knights.