AU 107 Spoilers

[nbarclay]

Oops, duplicate post having trouble getting through to the server.

Nathan

[nbarclay]

Oops - another duplicate

Nathan

[Catt]

I had always assumed that the "bottom" of the graph -- i.e., the most recent dates -- represents the relative total culture generated per turn by each of the civs.

I based this assumption primarily on the fact that the "Score" histograph seems quite clearly to me to work this way -- in a game such as mine where I am behind for quite some time but make a late game surge, the lower portion of the histograph might show me as a dominant leader (i.e., widest color band), even though earlier world powers still have a greater aggregate score than my civ. A decent example of this can be seen in if you look closely at my "winning compilation" screen shot in Part 9 of my AAR, you can barely discern that at the very bottom of the "score" histograph my color bar is significantly greater than Germany's -- and yet, the turn before I launched (and therefore got the "win before 2050 bonus" added to my score), I had only just barely passed Germany's score (see the scores in the culture histograph screen in my later post).

On the other hand, I've also always been convinced that the "Power" graph shows realtive total power at any given instant in the game - I just use it so much less often than the culture and score graphs.

In preparing AU 107, I downloaded Grampho's MultiTool to my home desktop. After checking late last night, it appears that the save game editor can give the accumulated culture totals of every city on the map. Unfortunately, I play civ almost exclusively on my laptop, and haven't moved saves over to my desktop, nor do I have any room on my laptop for Gramphos' tool -- I will probably move a 1979 AD save to my desktop this weekend and spend a little time tallying the total culture levels to see if it was indeed close.

As I hinted at earlier, I never really thought about the 100K culture victory until it was almost certainly too late to do anything about it (I am pretty sure I've never lost via this method) -- I sometimes keep my eye on potential AI 20K victories during games, and now, with the brief scare in AU 107, I will keep my eye on 100K victories in games where I start hopelessly behind.

Subject to my checking with the MultiTool, I guess this serves as yet another example where AU games have taught me something not only about tactics / strategies, but also about game mechanics and how it all works.

nbarclay - I never seem to make it through the Modern Age without AI warfare, either targeted at me or at other AIs. Good luck

Catt

[Arrian]

Catt,

I had always assumed that the "bottom" of the graph -- i.e., the most recent dates -- represents the relative total culture generated per turn by each of the civs.

From the graph you posted above, lower right hand corner:

Culture is the sum of the cultural value of all of your cities

I really don't think the graph is per turn.

-Arrian

[Catt]

Cultural Histograph

Arrian et. al.,

Yeah, I'm now pretty convinced that the graph has to be relative total cultures of civs - it would be awfully useless as an information source if it wasn't.

What's embarassing is that I knew that all along and somehow came around to the crazy view of the per-turn idea (probably becuase the graph looked so scary I couldn't figure out how I had avoided defeat). I can remember in many earlier games relying on the graph to help evaluate dicey culture flipping risks, watching the foreign advisor's advice as to others' cultures relate to the graph bar sizes, etc.

BTW, this is the second time in AU games that I've convinced myself of some silly error on basic game knowledge -- don't remember which AU game (Hippie Sam maybe?) but I somehow convinced myself that unit and rushing costs would become cheaper upon the discovery of Economics

Funny how accurate game knowledge warps over time. But who says aging isn't fun . . .

Catt

[Arrian]

[vmxa1]

Catt, glad to see I am not the only that can get lost, for awhile. Knowing something and still being confused, I at least have the excuse that I am getting old.

[Dominae]

Yeah, Arrian informed just yesterday that Marketplaces and Banks are not cheaper for Commercial civs. I think that trumps your Culture Histograph confusion, Catt!


Dominae

[Theseus]

Originally posted by Arrian
Theseus, that's a lot of armies. And a lot of legionaries. Yeesh. And is that a rifleman army I see? Did you use leaders exclusively for armies?

Yeah, I missed all the GWs up through the medieval age, so I used GLs on Armies, HE, Palace relo, the MA, Pentagon, Battlefied Medicine, and Hoover's... and a factory or two. So that's, uh, 15-16 prior to Tanks.

Legions and Samurai, IMHO, are hands-down the GL generating-ingest units around.

As of Mot Trans, I have:

Two 2xLegion+2xRiflemen
Three 2xLegion+Riflemen+Infantry
Three 3xCav+Tank

I'm stilling try to break loose to play more, but I intend a combination Infantry / Arty Flood with ranging fastmovers strategy.

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Catt
nbarclay - I never seem to make it through the Modern Age without AI warfare, either targeted at me or at other AIs. Good luck

The prospect of AIs beating each other up doesn't especially concern me, except maybe if the Babs would cut off my French fur supply and not be able to take over as suppliers (not likely given the state of AI incompetence at intercontinental invasions). As for the possibility of AIs attacking me, I'm the only one in the world with tanks, I have a lead of five techs less whatever work Babylon has put in on their current project, and I have all of the original cores of Rome, Persia, Germany, and England as my industrial base. (I'm not counting my majority stake in Russia because corruption is so bad there.) And I have a few cities that generally have nothing better to do than to build troops, and several more that will be at that point before any AIs reach the modern era. So if an AI does take a notion to attack me, the most it is likely to accomplish is to change my mind about what victory condition to aim for.

On a different topic, the thought occurs to me that a civ's total accumulated culture is also the current power of its culture in any calculations where culture is used. From that perspective, the way culture is shown is fully consistent with the way power is shown. And you can still track how your current accumulation rate compares with that of other civs to some degree by watching whose culture is getting fatter and whose is getting thinner. Guss who's finally gotten tired of being a cultural nobody?

Nathan

[nbarclay]

By the way, a couple notes on my culture chart. (1) I didn't found Rome until the second turn, so the AIs got a head start, creating the odd shape at the top (just in case anyone isn't already familiar with the phenomenon). (2) The area where my culture stopped gaining ground for a while before Russia disappeared represents the effects of mobilization on culture. (3) I haven't been able to find any German cities at all in a long time, and Persia just has three. (4) If you look very closely at my culture since Russia disappeared, you'll see a slight curvature in a direction I'm sure the AIs are not happy to see. (Of course they'd be even more unhappy if I hadn't started so far behind.)

Nathan

[alexman]

Snapshot in History: 170 A.D.

Let the festivities begin! After thousands of years as an obscure and backwards civilization, our island kingdom is finally beginning to make its mark in the known World. Let us celebrate our new form of government and cheer for King Caesar. Filled with optimism, and despite not funding any science since the discovery of Mapmaking, let us enter a new age. We shall name this age “Middle”, because another age – more glorious for Rome, no doubt - will follow. Our newly-established colony of Byzantium, in the ivory-rich lands of Babylon Isle no less, is a testament to our new ambitious attitude.

How fast our fortunes have changed! It all started when our adventurous galleys discovered Babylon Isle, thus putting Rome in the limelight as the bridge between the Eastern and Western Civilizations. Then, our brave archers liberated the city of Ram Hormizd in the southwest corner of our island from the Persians. In fear of a Persian Immortal retaliation, Caesar forged and alliance with Catherine against Xerxes. The alliance secured our island against Persian invaders, and started a war between Persia and Russia that has yet to end, countless years after the people of Persia and Rome have reconciled their differences. In fact, England and France have been drawn into the war on the Persian side. Meanwhile, the evil Babylonians decided to expand towards the south, thus absorbing the poor Zulu republic in their island empire.

The future, you ask? Rest assured, our fearless leader Caesar has a plan. Now that we finally know the secrets of Horseback riding, we shall build a great mounted army. We shall transport this army to Byzantium, where we have a foothold on Babylon Isle. We shall save all of our gold. When the time is right, we shall pay our foreign friends to teach us how to turn harmless horsemen into fearsome Knights, and we shall unleash our hordes upon Babylon!

But until then, let the festivities begin!

[Catt]

Originally posted by nbarclay

Guess who's finally gotten tired of being a cultural nobody?

I think the fright of looking at my culture histograph sometime after 1900 AD and realizing a 100K culture loss was possible (and possibly imminent) jumbled my brain. And I aslo scientifically measured* my game's culture powers and also came to the conclusion that Babylon failed to double Germany's culture.

You're probably early enough still that Hammy hasn't hit 100K points, but once again based on my perfectly accurate scientific measurement,* if Hammy could possibly be getting close to 100K, you need to do some trimming of Babylon or some rushing of culture.

Catt



* Method of measurement is to hold yellow sticky note against computer screen, and, with ink pen, mark width of 2nd civ's culture from edge of sticky note. Fold sticky note at pen mark, marking again at point where edge of paper reaches. Unfold yellow sticky note, place against computer screen and determine whether leader's culture is greater than the "doubled" 2nd place civ's culture. You may also use string, or paper of a color other than yellow, but this is not advisable. Not recommended for children under 8. Do not attmept this measurement while operating a motor vehicle or heavy machinery.

[alexman]

Snapshot in History: 830 A.D.

Let us mourn for our fellow Roman soldiers. The once proud Knighs of Rome have been decimated during their Babylonian crusade. The war was by no means a disaster, for Rome secured new fertile lands, but the infidels were much tougher than we had expected. There was no way we could sustain the war with our crippled army against their defending musketmen, with Knight after Knight and Longbowman after Longbowman counterattacking our forces.

The situation got so desperate that Caesar threw into battle his own personal guard, a lone Legionary division. The Legionaries defeated a technologically superior Longbowman unit, and the news echoed around the World. This event forced Hamurabi to sue for peace, repaying Rome for some of the damages of war, and our great civilization entered a Golden Age. We shall use this Golden Age to build our infrastructure and rebuild our army.

And Caesar shall be back to finish the job, just as Persia has finally finished the job against Russia, for he still desires that elusive summer Palace in Babylon!

[alexman]

I can't believe the good stories I have been missing by taking my time in playing this game. Thank you all for such great write-ups. I spent all day at work doing little else than reading them!

I have actually played up to 1515 A.D. on Emperor on the AU 1.04 version, and it's gooking good. I don't have time to write about it tonight though.

Just a quick note on the AU mod AI changes. The AI still irrigates WAY to much. And as far as I can see, the same civs have emerged as killers in both the AU mod and the standard versions. It appears that the game designers have not given us enough control of the AI behavior in the editor.