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  • The Best of the Best

    I'd like to propose a new group effort.

    For several reasons, I want to get a lot sharper at CivIII. First, I just enjoy it. Second, I've really liked some of the tourney / tournament discussions, have learned a bunch, and have been waaay impressed by some of the strategies and tactics employed. Third, MP is coming, and while I never partipated in CivII that way, I intend to this time around.

    Also, although I still enjoy playing the stock game, it could definitely be more of a challenge.

    So what I want is a combination boot camp and War College, leveraging a varied group of players and a variety of techniques, to polish collective skills.

    Some thoughts:

    * I don't know much about mods, but I'd suggest starting with one that's already been done, or quickly developing a new bic as Vel just proposed. What's important is that the group agree on a standard mod to use. I do think the tweaks should be minimized, so as not to throw off technique for unmodded games.

    * Hi .... I'm intrigued by what Panag has been talking about, setting the AI to Deity in the editor rather than on world settings. Maybe start with Emperor AI on a Monarch game. Have a nice day ....

    * I'd like to focus on my methodology for creating "killer AI civs." I know it works, and can give a work-out that most closely matches a human opponent.

    I'd suggest informal tourneys similar to what we've had for the last couple months.

    We should do extreme experiments, like Aeson's iceberg, Arrian's UP (tm), Sir Ralph's effort to create WWIII, etc. Maybe we can also approximate some of the PTW games, like Regicide and King of the Mountain.

    I also think it will be useful to start developing a more advanced lexicon for strategies, tactics, and exploits. We've been doing that informally, but it will make life a lot easier for new players.

    There's too many great players and thinkers to name that should partake... one thought does occur to me though, I'd love to get Barry Caudill from Firaxis involved, who is supposedly their best player. Also, some of the flamers should be welcomed, if they can participate positively... maybe we can get the game to where the flames are put out.

    MarkG, if you read this, and there's enough interest, a separate forum would be a great meeting place for a cross-section of the strategy and mod members.

    Maybe not a great name for the effort, as it sounds elitist and it shouldn't be. But I'm sure you all get the intent.

    The best gameplay, the best AI civs... and then, hopefully, the best players.
    The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

    Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.

  • #2


    Count me in! I totally agree that whatever changes are made need to be widely supported...standardized, such that the modified bic is widely known and accepted.

    And...don't tell anybody, but I'm currently putting together another strat thread....

    -=Vel=-
    The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

    Comment


    • #3
      * Hi .... I'm intrigued by what Panag has been talking about, setting the AI to Deity in the editor rather than on world settings. Maybe start with Emperor AI on a Monarch game. Have a nice day ....
      AFAIK this has to do what level the AI plays:
      default level: regent : 3? pop happy before unhappines kick in
      so if you set it to deity, he will get only 1 happiness.
      Therefore if want to make a tougher game you need to set it at chieftain. That way he will harly need and luxeries etc... but like I said this is all IIRC and AFAIK

      have a nice day
      ( maybe we should all start doing this , this will drive a few people through the roove , but hey )
      Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?
      Then why call him God? - Epicurus

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      • #4
        Interesting idea. I'd like to have a "standard mod" of sorts, where we agree on changes.

        Hi, I assume the effect of setting the AI to "emperor" in the editor....would give the AI "emperor" production/science bonuses.... but leave everything else... like tech trading and barb bonuses... the same. Have a nice day.

        I would definitely lobby for "Ultimate Power" experiments to relieve depression that would result from "iceberg" experiments

        I suggest that at least some of these things be partial games, instead of starting at 4000bc. Like what Vel has done with the Babylonian game. Have one player set it up according to certain parameters, and then go from there.

        -Arrian
        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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        • #5
          Theseus, I 100% agree with your proposal. I have been thinking of the same thing for a while.

          However, since the patch is coming out any day now, shouldn't we wait before making any changes to the bic file that we would have to remake after the patch?

          alva, you are right. I tried to tell this to panag once, but he didn't get it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Best of the Best

            I'd probably play in a few games. But I would absolutely, certainly, without-a-doubt read through all the threads -- I've been learning a lot from our mini-tourney games.

            Originally posted by Theseus
            * Hi .... I'm intrigued by what Panag has been talking about, setting the AI to Deity in the editor rather than on world settings. Maybe start with Emperor AI on a Monarch game. Have a nice day ....
            I played with this a while ago, but not extensively. And with all due respect to panag, the only difference I saw was a more challenged AI -- its size three and four cities all had entertainers, and its size 6 cities were severely challenged. I did not see any increased desire for luxuries, increased aggression, better tactics, etc. I think Alva is right on point, here. The default setting is Regent which means that when the player is playing at Chieftan and Warlord, he has an advantage (more content citizens), at Regent is even, and above Regent is at a disadvantage -- just like most of the rest of the "standrad" changes encountered in moving up the difficulty levels.

            That being said, you could set it to "Chieftan" and help create the Killer AI.

            We should do extreme experiments, like Aeson's iceberg, Arrian's UP (tm), Sir Ralph's effort to create WWIII, etc.
            Could be fun!

            The best gameplay, the best AI civs... and then, hopefully, the best players.
            I too am happy with the standard game (after experimenting with some modest modding), but increasing the fun and challenge would be great.

            Catt

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            • #7
              Good idea, Theseus . There has been an idea to create a "Apolyton mod" by a british poster a few months ago, but this time it was too early, because we had still 1.17 and it was obvious, that the next patch would bring some changes. Now it might be the right time. And "Apolyton mod" would be a cool name .

              Wish I had more time these days... Oh well, Friday is my deadline and hopefully next week I can play again.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by alexman

                However, since the patch is coming out any day now, shouldn't we wait before making any changes to the bic file that we would have to remake after the patch?
                I too agree on this. But we could get some preparation work done. I.E. agree on the basics.


                alva, you are right. I tried to tell this to panag once, but he didn't get it.
                Actually, I don't mind him doing this all that much.
                Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?
                Then why call him God? - Epicurus

                Comment


                • #9
                  Very cool! Will have a look at the mod that's already been done, and yeah...with the new patch coming, it's not something I wanna devote a TON of time to, but it'd be kinna cool to fiddle around with....

                  -=Vel=-
                  The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I don't know much about mods, so won't comment on that, but I have been thinking on one particular play style that would definately add a challenge (kind of regicide - king of the hill).

                    What If the human player is not allowed to build a settler? It would not mean OCC -- which I consider more of a show-it-to-be-possible thing -- as you can capture and build up everything you like. It could be interesting, because if you want the production, you need to capture towns quickly. But not too quickly, or you would negate your own growth: no enemy cities mean no cities for your own. And razing cities becomes not only morally hard, but also sets you back as to denied growth...

                    It might not work on all maps, though. I can't imagine a deity archipelago map, as it would become 'simple' OCC.

                    Any thoughts on this?

                    DeepO

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Best of the Best

                      Originally posted by Theseus

                      * Hi .... I'm intrigued by what Panag has been talking about, setting the AI to Deity in the editor rather than on world settings. Maybe start with Emperor AI on a Monarch game. Have a nice day ....
                      I'm afraid this terminology is somewhat confusing. If you want to make the game easier for the AI (and thus harder for you), change the editor setting to Chieftain, not Deity. Think of it as what difficulty level the AI picks to play at. It only affects things like combat barbarian bonuses, goody hut probabilities, and free content citizens. It does NOT affect the AI production bonuses in any way.

                      btw, if you want a killer AI, have you considered lowering the production bonus below 6 (the Deity level)? Has anyone tried it at 1?
                      - What's that?
                      - It's a cannon fuse.
                      - What's it for?
                      - It's for my cannon.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Re: The Best of the Best

                        Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis

                        btw, if you want a killer AI, have you considered lowering the production bonus below 6 (the Deity level)? Has anyone tried it at 1?
                        /me runs screaming into the hills in terror with nightmare visions of being pursued by hordes of killer AI civs who attack him with thousands upon thousands of regular riflemen.
                        If I'm posting here then Counterglow must be down.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Re: Re: The Best of the Best

                          Originally posted by FrustratedPoet


                          * FrustratedPoet runs screaming into the hills in terror with nightmare visions of being pursued by hordes of killer AI civs who attack him with thousands upon thousands of regular riflemen.
                          MUAH-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!
                          - What's that?
                          - It's a cannon fuse.
                          - What's it for?
                          - It's for my cannon.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Now look what you've done! The P in PTW may stand for "pain" now.

                            We were just kidding Soren! Honest we were!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Re: The Best of the Best

                              Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis


                              btw, if you want a killer AI, have you considered lowering the production bonus below 6 (the Deity level)? Has anyone tried it at 1?
                              Another one of those things that aren't documented and yet could change gameplay.........



                              I think you guys have more going on than you let on Soren.

                              Except, of course, what you told me and a few others in chat the other night.

                              Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust!

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