AU: A MOD for the curiculum

[Harovan]

I made a quick check with a modified civ3mod.bic: Iroquois with The Wheel, Iron Working (for the resources), Horseback Riding and Chivalry as free techs, and Chivalry moved to the Ancient age with prerequisites Iron Working and Horseback Riding. Unit upgrades etc. unchanged. Then I made a map with iron under the start location and horses just 1 tile away. Here's a shot of the citys build queue after the horses were connected:

[nbarclay]

Alexman, how hard have you tried to set up separate upgrade paths for swordsmen and immortals? From looking at the editor, it looks like it ought to be possible, but I don't have time to run a test at present. The units are definitely listed separately.

Nathan

[Dominae]

Ok, since we appear to be going through with some major change to Communism, I'm ready to play-test it in AU-107. I'm also interested in figuring out if Longevity is really as unbalanced as was previously mentioned. The very fact that this Industrial age tech could be unbalanced goes to show that sometimes (often?) the game is far from decided before the Industrial age.

But I do have a problem with the change to Monarchy. 3 (or 4) free unit support? What's the reasoning behind this one (although a "royal guard" idea does seem cool)?

Here are the goals of the AU mod:

- Present the player with more strategic decisions.
- Improve the AI.
- Change as little as possible, to preserve the unmodded Civ3 flavor.
- Reduce micromanagement.

I really don't understand where the change to Monarchy fits into this scheme. It seems like a minor point, but small changes do add up.


Dominae

[BillChin]

Originally posted by Dominae
Ok, since we appear to be going through with some major change to Communism, I'm ready to play-test it in AU-107. I'm also interested in figuring out if Longevity is really as unbalanced as was previously mentioned. The very fact that this Industrial age tech could be unbalanced goes to show that sometimes (often?) the game is far from decided before the Industrial age.

But I do have a problem with the change to Monarchy. 3 (or 4) free unit support? What's the reasoning behind this one (although a "royal guard" idea does seem cool)?

Here are the goals of the AU mod:

- Present the player with more strategic decisions.
- Improve the AI.
- Change as little as possible, to preserve the unmodded Civ3 flavor.
- Reduce micromanagement.

I really don't understand where the change to Monarchy fits into this scheme. It seems like a minor point, but small changes do add up.

Dominae

The change to Monarchy narrows the gap with Republic (strategic decisions). It also helps the AI, if they decide to stay in Monarchy through the middle ages. So it fits one and two. The cosmetic change to Republic corruption is about equivalent to three free units. That small nudge down plus the small nudge up to Monarchy closes the gap. Though to me, Republic still seems clearly better for most situations.

The change is small so it preserves the flavor of the unmodded game, though it is a change. So this change gets pluses for 1) and 2) and only a small hit on 3) so that makes it a decent change in my book. This is the same scoring I give for the change on Republic. I think both are decent and both make the government choice less clear cut for a human player while helping the AI which has a higher tendency to stay in Monarchy. The three free unit support helps small empires much more than large ones. For a human warmonger it is largely irrelevant after the first war of conquest. I do see it helping keep smaller AI Monarchies in the game.

The main purpose is to cut down on the tendency of many experienced players, to go straight to Republic and stay there the entire game. This is often seen as the optimal path for non-religious civs. The exception is the warmonger who goes straight to Monarchy and stays there and stays at war for much of the game. The change does little to encourage that, because it is still worthwhile to shift to Republic or Democracy if there is a long period of peace.

I doubt there will be much useful evidence collected on Communism or Longevity in AU-107. Maybe 5% of single player games are in doubt by the time the Industrial Age rolls around. In multiplayer, I see a higher percentage of games undecided at that time, though the majority will be over. Humans often have a tendency to gang up on the leading player. Humans also learn from their opponents so the gap between the best players and lesser players can become smaller over time.
- Bill

[alexman]

UU's are indeed a special case in the upgrade path for every civ. (It must be the "starts golden age" property). I tried Sir Ralph's experiment with Japan and they can build Samurai and Cavalry at the same time. By the way, this sheds new light on the player1/lockstep debate about the upgrade path of Jaguar Warriors because Aztecs can always build them - until the end of the game!

Anyway, back to the point, just making Immortals upgrade to the new Longbowmen will do just fine. The Persians will be able to build them both.

Sorry for the confusion!

[player1]

Actualy, I've had similar strange thing going while playing with my SCENARIO:New Earth (which uses my MOD as base).

Now I get it!


New cheesy Greek strategy:
In Modern times build Hoplites in your highly corrupt cities.
Then rush build Barracks.
Then upgrade them.
Repeat process.

Expensive but can pay off sometimes (especily if you have Leonardo's Workshop).

[Dominae]

BillChin, thanks for your convincing reply. But I'm still anxious to playtest these changes to see if the governments really will be closer to being balanced. When is AU-107?


Dominae

[Dominae]

Um, I'm going to echo my own question (above): when is AU-107 scheduled? I'm eager to try my hand at another communal game.


Dominae

[alexman]

I heard rumors about an always-war scenario for AU 107. Theseus, can you confirm?

I suggest combining it with a resource-poor world (4-2-1 Longbowmen anyone?) and a religious civ (Communism anyone?).

Personally, I'm still trying to finish 106 so I'm not yet ready for 107.

[Gen.Dragolen]

alexman,

Could you check on the au mod 1.04 download ?

I have tried a couple of times this evening, but cannot get a complete file. This could be just from the load on the servers, but I just want to cover off all angles.

Thanks.


D.

[Theseus]

I think there's something wrong with downloading today... both Arrian and I have had problems.

I PMed Mark.

[Harovan]

I have also problems downloading the file, although my problem as always is, that I keep getting the old (1.03) version. Somewhere between me and Apolyton sits a very nasty proxy .

Alexman, could you mail me the AU 1.04 mod? You should have my email. Thanks in advance.

[Catt]

Me too - I get an empty zip folder. Alexman, if you have a copy and a chance to email, I'd love a copy for AU 107. I have PM'd you with my email address.

[alexman]

I replaced the file - if it still doesn't work, it's probably not my fault!

[player1]

It's probelm with ALL ZIP attachments!