AU208: Total Eternal Forever War - Reports and Comments

[vmxa1]

Re: Let's discuss!

Originally posted by cumi
1. I would like to ask you or open a small discussion about the city placement. I saw screenshots from Dominae, where he used 2-3 tile spacing (I did it so too). But NorMe and vmxa1 used about 20 tile city placement.

Any comments or explanations on that?

2. Where did you built your FP? In one of my screenshots (page 8 - Here the link ) you can see, where did I put it...

3. How many cities did you founded? I don't think, that it's possible to fill the whole continent with cities and to stay at low corruption.

4. And finally, I would like to know the history of the form of your goverments.


cumi

I went with the max optimal placement, because I wanted to cover the circumference of the island. I wamted this quickly so I could defend any incursions.
I figured I needed to have as few cities as I could to manage that. The problem came later when it was hard to get enough workers to RR. I also wanted to prevent barbs from rampaging on me. This was done by cover the land and early two roving archers sacking any camps. This worked great.

FP I stuck in Samalanca or what ever the former capitol of Iroq was. This was great for the mainland, but sucked for any other lands. I was winning so easily that I did not bother to palace jump. Mainly because England was too small and India and Babs was too late to care.

Cities, I don't know, not that many.

I switched once to Monarch very late 170AD, I just could not afford to do it sooner.

[vmxa1]

"I'm not quite sure what vmxa1 was doing in the screenshot just above. Care to comment, vmxa1?"



That was just a final look at the mini map the turn before I won.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Dominae
Yes, but...1) his tile improvements are way behind for the 20th century, 2) if his capital or Forbidden Palace is on the home continent, he is better off to put more cities there than somewhere else, due to distance-from-capital Corruption. My guess is that he relocated his Palace and is using Irrigation and Specialists in the areas visible in the screenshot. Still, it looks weird.

vmxa1?


Dominae

It was just my fear of incursion and pollution. I spending so much effort to get out ships and troops, that I did not have enough workers to do the job.
I have workers mainly getting roads up on all tiles. This is so I could get to any spot that needed defending or later to clean pollution.
Incursions did not occur, but pollution did. I then put the workers on RR building.
By this time it was clear that the AI could not do anything to bother me in my homeland or England.
They were sending all troops against me in India/Babs island.
I was sending a steady stream of units over there to hold any captured cities.
I captured very few workers and all were on the Indian island. Well, I did get some from England and left them there. I managed to rail that island completely.
I could have put up a few more cities on my island, but I just did not see any need to make more work for myself.
They would get to a new unit the same time I would get to the next generation of troops.
IOW they started sending infantry as I was making tanks. I wonder how the heck India ever got that tech or could afford to make any and Hammy was in nearly as bad of shape.

[Theseus]

Irrigation? More rails?

vxma, we gotta compare more games... over time, I think our styles have diverged more than I realized.

BUT, I am still struggling with this damn AU game in fits and starts, and kudos to you for the accomplishment.

[vmxa1]

Theseus, I don't think you shuld consider this game as part of any real style. To many things were very unusal. No trade, no extortion and the like. I did not have nearly enough workers, due to having to make so many troops. I did not bother to keep track of the empire, once I seen that I could not lose and that was pretty early.
IOW I just tried something different to see if it would work for those conditions.

[nbarclay]

Theseus, are you still trying to beat it on Emperor, or have you moved down a notch or two?

[Theseus]

I'm still on Emperor. I took a little break to play MZO's Indian game... quite the, ummmm, emotional relief.

I'll probably take another whack at it Friday night. I'm about to get Chivalry, so I can clean the continent, and then it's on to Invention and BERZERKERS!!!

[Catt]

I finally started. Standard rules, dropped down to Monarch, playing the Germans. Lots of screenies to come later.

For now, an interim report. I've never played Total War, and probably over-built units in the early game, losing out on REXing opportunities. Found Rome first (or they found me). My archer attack on Rome was disastrous -- I lost 8 archers in the attack and counter-attack without taking Rome That was a serious blow. Soon thereafter Legions started appearing. Found the Iroquois, MWs come not too long after. My early research was the Wheel and IW - surprise, no iron or horses . Survived the Roman and Iroq golden ages, and gradually made progress, eventually taking Rome and Caesar's iron supply. Big early game mistake - lack of a good military road network to the front.

I didn't trade gpt for techs. My understanding of Total War is that this tactic is "out of market" or unusual. Nonetheless, it wouldn't have netted me much since I didn't have a good gpt opportunity. And I agree that AU is a free for all - nothing wrong with having used the gpt trick; I just didn't do it.

I hoped for the GL, but wasn't counting or planning on it. I hoped to secure a decent position without it and thought it might be interesting to play the scenario without it. I changed my mind at about 500 BC and tried for it, hard. With a leader waiting and 3 turns to the discovery of Literature, England got it first.

I've made it to the point that I have a decent world map, and control of my continent (although I don't own it - there remain a few Iroq and Roman tundra cities, but it's just a matter of time). I'm so far behind I'm not thinking of ToE and Hoover's - I'm looking ahead to Modern Armor. I'll have Chivalry in a turn or two; the overseas powers have already built Magellan's and Smith's, working on Shakespeare's. I figure I'm almost an age behind. If I can avoid a cultural or diplo loss, and I can handle the landings to come, I hope to survive. But I suspect I've lost the game.

Screenies and a more detailed AAR to come in the next few days. For now, a bit more beer and a bit more civ.

Good AAR's so far alexman - add me to the list of those saying you're a smidgen evil. Rome, on a hill, with iron . . .

Catt

[Catt]

I believe I've lost. I control my continent, but am suffering through 20+ bombard attacks from frigates and ironclads each turn (which, while painful, is also tremendously monotonous). I am dealing with landing parties adequately, but am a long ways away from any sort of invasion. The lack of saltpeter means no frigates, cannons, or cavalry. I am still 6 techs from the industrial age, and numerous civs are building Universal Suffrage - it is only a matter time before infantry start showing up (haven't seen riflemen yet). With no effective bombard defense, I suspect I'm in for a long, slow, painful collapse. I'm going to play on for now, and will work on a more complete AAR with lessons learned and key points / events in the game.

Catt

[Catt]

I selected Germany -- with warfare from the get go, I believed that archers and spears would be helpful; cheap barracks would be welcome; militaristic would mean quick promotions - potentially particularly helpful with the early builds pre-barracks (reg to veteran easily); I wanted the scientific trait for cheap science improvements.

I stepped down to Monarch from Emperor after hearing all the chatter about how tough the scenario was. I played standard rules.

I had never played Total War before, but planned to start with limited exploration. I wanted to scout out a few city sites and hopefully find a few barbs, but I didn't want to meet my foes until I was ready. I settled in the start spot on the furs - there wasn't a real attractive start spot within one move, and I didn;t want to waste any time. I decided to build archers for the first 3 or 4 builds -- I considered a granary or a barracks, but, not knowing how close an enemy might be, I wanted several attackers right off the bat. After a few early archers, I built a barracks and then a settler.

The start was actually pretty bleak in retrospect, although it looked OK at the beginning. The Industrial trait would have "improved" the start considerably, but even with a non-industriuos civ, I felt that we had a decent location. Early huts were all barbs - actually not bad considering I wanted upgrades (and got them!).

I set research on the Wheel at 90% or 100%, wanting to find horses quickly. Even though the high research only moved science from 1 gold to 2, and reduced the build from 40 turns to something like 36 turns, I figured that as Berlin grew (I wouldn't be pumping settlers as often as a normal game) the research time would drop considerably. The Germans discovered The Wheel in 2630 BC and set research on Iron Working at 10%.

In 2270 BC, A German harrassment force looking for victims came across our first foreign foe -- a wounded Roman archer, out hunting barbs was spotted in the mountains north of Berlin. Here's the screenshot.

[Catt]

A few turns later, having destroyed the Roman archer, our forces still haven't located the Roman settlements. In fact, before we've found Rome, we spot borders to our northwest - could be the Iroquois or the Indians. Our forces were a bit dispersed -- they would regroup when a target was identified. We retreated from the new borders and headed east in search of Rome.

[Catt]

Soon, the red borders of Rome came into view. A strike force of 8 archers (2 elites!) and one spearman was assembled and marched to Rome's gates. The spearman was reduced to one HP by a Roman archer, but held the defenses. When the time came to attack, all 8 German archers let fly their arrows. The carnage was horrible. In a huge setback for Germany, Rome remained defiant. Three spearmen were defending, backed by an archer and a warrior or two. At the conclusion of the assault, several wounded archers and the wounded spearman remained standing -- but a Roman counterattack quickly destroyed the survivors. The assault on Rome was a complete disaster.

The failure at Rome was a tremendous blow. The Germans would spend the next 1000 years reassembling an attack force, all the while fending off the occassional Roman interloper. To add insult to injury, we had made contact with the Iroquois and faced a two front war.

Around 600 BC, a second assault force had maneuvered to a point just outside Rome. The Roman's had managed to train a few Legions, and Bismarck was certain that second failure would mean death. This second force was about the same composition as the first ill-fated army and was facing better trained troops, but taking Rome was a must -- to turn back then would mean death.

[Catt]

As painful as the RNG gods had been during the first assualt, they smled on the second assault. Our first archer defeated the defending legion without being wounded. The second archer reduced a second legion to 1 HP before perishing. Rome soon fell. German troops healed in Rome and then marched on Veii. In 490 BC, the first German great leader appeared on the battlefield.

[Catt]

German scientists were researching towards Monarchy, hoping for a fast escape from Despotism. In retrospect, probably a mistake. Bismarck had been unable to trade for Alphabet with Rome before war erupted -- the high cost of a large, early, standing army and the efforts at researching the Wheel meant that Bismarck didn't have enough gold to purchase Alphabet (with The Wheel thrown in for good measure). Nonetheless, a more focused effort towards Literature and the Great Library would have likely been the better play.

With Rome secured, Germany began training swordsmen (more accurately, Germany began mass-producing warriors until Rome was connected via road and upgrades became available). The first Great Leader formed an army -- the Germans had neither a wonder available nor a wonder-enabling technology just over the horizon. The army was filled with newly trained swordsmen.

Unfortunately, Iroquois mounted warriors quickly appeared -- with both Rome and the Iroquois enjoying golden ages, the German forces had their hands full defneding the fatherland and the newly-acquired territories.

English galleys soon appeared off the German southern coast. After trading maps with England, Elizabeth too felt the sting of Bismarck's war declaration.

A swordsman on defense against Iroquois troops generated Germany's second great leader. The Heroic Epic was completed immediately thereafter.

[Catt]

The next 800 or so years were a constant struggle. As Iroquois raiding parties slowed (golden age ended), the Germans made slow but steady advances against both the Iroquois and the last remnants of Rome. Every so often English troops were sacrificed for Germany's glory. But Bismarck was slow to settle te available land. Without horses, Germany lacked military mobility, and forces were stretched thin enough that sending weakly-defended settler parties out into the open plains where monted warriors could strike was to dangerous.

After discovering Polytheism, Bismarck decided that the Great Library would be very important -- he had previously decided that it wouldn;t be necessary, but the facts on the ground called for reappraisal. Both the Iroquois and the English were extending their technological lead over Germany, and a strange race that called themselves the Babylonians had built several wonders, or so the travelers told. Hiawatha did manage to build the Pyramids, which meant they would be controlled by Germany eventually. With a leader waiting and 3 turns from the discovery of Lierature, Bismarck learned that London had completed the Great Library. The poor German leader could do nothing -- he couldn't even form an army due to the small number of German cities.

Several Great Leaders later, Bismarck was still directing a "lazy war" -- picking off enemy units at will, fishing for leaders and focusing on building the German empire. Military production slowed, and libraries were being built in all German cities. A forbidden palace was constructed in the center of the continent, south and slightly west of Salamanca. Even with a large portion of income directed towards research, a decent FP-Palace axis, and a focus on city growth and improvement, the long German stay in Despotism and the limitations of Monarchy meant that Germany fell far behind the unknown overseas rivals.

In approximately 900 AD, Germany suddenly made contact with 4 previously unknown civs. Territory maps were purchased, several technologies were purchased, and war was declared. A look at the known world indicated that Germany was facing formiddible opponents.