AU208: Total Eternal Forever War - Reports and Comments

[BigDork]

Originally posted by vmxa1
BigDork did you have any barracks in any of the ciies? I made them in all my front line cities. They do two things that are useful: 1 produce vets 2- heal surviviors.
The way to handle legions is to attack them in the open and take Rome. They will not be able to build any more Legions. I guess they do not have any more iron. They kept sending archers and spears, but no legions.

I usually start a new city by building a barracks. Especially when I'm playing military civs because it's nice and cheap and of course so useful for this game.

I took out Rome and they were still sending legionaries my way. I think they may have had another source of iron. That or they had a lot in another city. Oh well.

My China game is starting to slow down. Both the Iroquios and Rome are sending a lot of units my way. I'm making another grab for Rome. I'm gonna hold it this time too.

I also built a colony on the iron in the mountains to the north. This is soooooo useful. Now I have swordsmen to fight those annoying legionaries and it's helping a lot.

BigD

[vmxa1]

Dom, I hope you are correct, but this will definitely not be a cake walk at any level.
The two big problems I see are tech and massive units coming sooner or later.

Aeson, I know the feeling of no horse or Iron. I see Kon (I think it was) went with a colony. I opted to grab Rome. The trick is to stay in the game until you can get those swords.
Well I stopped my RPG for the day and so I can get back to this game and see how it goes.

[Nakar Gabab]

Insanity. Utter insanity. England contacted me not TOO long after I'd settled the entire continent, and have puttered about in their galleys ever since.

Then a massive barbarian uprising occurred, throwing my empire into disarray. But it ain't all bad...

[Nakar Gabab]

I sure do wish I'd had a leader. My empire is crippled by corruption and I think that's pretty much going to cost me the game. I'm probably gonna stop here, especially now that I notice there's NO SALTPETER ANYWHERE!

Still, the GL turned out to be a regular ticking time-bomb, and when contact with the rest of the world finally happened, it paid off handsomely (in my most humble of opinions):

EDIT: I suppose I should note that at the time I was still in the Ancient Age, lacking Horseback Riding, Philosophy, and The Republic.

[vmxa1]

I got to say it is starting to wear me down. The combat is going pretty well for now, but even I am getting sick of seeing troops on the move endlessly.
I had a 5th and a 6th leader, but had to use them on plain libs as nothing else could be done.
Nasty thing is that the 5th one came on the turn after I got Lit. Americans build the Great Lib on the same turn I researched it. I have libs in almost all cities. I have no idea how much of the land mass I control as I have not gotten over the mountains yet.
I have captured 3 or 4 settlers so I disbanded a few of my workers t save maint. I expect I can clear the island, but if I get no horses or saltpetter I do no see much hope.
England keeps asking for peace, but not the Romans or the Iroq? England is not losing that much, a few new towns and a few units they drop off. Rome and Iroq have massive deaths and loss of cities.
I just am not looking forward to knights or Calv coming to town and me with no RR, nothing but ancient units.

[Nakar Gabab]

Gave it another go with Carthage. I really don't think I've got the chutzpah to win this one, but I can do something. Let's have ourselves a little AU Lecture, shall we?

First things first. Take a look at the left part of this little collage. I managed to get myself a settler from a goodie hut up in the hills. Past experience tells me where the Iron in these mountains is, but in a regular game there could be iron anywhere. That said, the settler should probably found a city in the foothills in the hopes of providing an iron source. In this particular case, I built one square to the left. The iron wound up being north and west a bit, so I was easily able to snake out a colony and protect it with Numidian Mercs. This gave me swords against the Roman Legion, which is a big deal! If you start in an area that looks resource-poor (like a lot of coastal plains), it often pays off to stick a city in the heart of the mountains. Just remember to chop all those forests and irrigate so that the city has food - the mountains and hills will provide more than enough shields, so ALWAYS irrigate in this sort of case. If you get lucky and have iron not only close, but in the city radius, cross your fingers and keep playing - the Iron Works might just be in your future.

Now, on to the second half of this mini-lesson, a critical piece of strategy for Carthage and a general concept for any civ: the art of encircling.

Hannibal's famous march through Italy wasn't just for the scenery. Hannibal knew that attacking an enemy from all sides - especially the ones that are assumed to be "safe" - made victory more predictable. Of course we all know how Hannibal's campaign worked out, but Civ3 gives us the chance to do better.

Note the top picture. At first I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I had nothing to build (no granary/temple available yet, and I got a barracks up in both cities easily) at first, and lots of forest to chop. I figured, well, if an archer rush is good, an archer rush with D3 archers is even better! And lo, my Numidian Mercs streamed across the mountains towards the Iroquois. Niagra Falls fell to a couple of Mercs, the survivor of which fortified to heal. The newer mercs approached Salamanca from many angles, closing in at various positions as they arrived. This accomplished three tasks. First, it gave the trailing units a chance to catch up. In the early Ancient Age, roads are a luxury, and the strongest units are usually the slowest. Second, it denied Salamanca resources. You try hitting somebody fortified on your cows or your furs or (God forbid) your HILL with D3. Even the Mounted Warrior (Hiawatha only squeaked out one before I choked his production) can't always crack a Numidian, especially fortified on a hill or across a river. Bad news. Third, it let me use my various staggered units to trick a settler into a trap, letting me bop it for two free workers and deny Hiawatha the chance to sneak away. With Salamanca locked and all settlers accounted for, we can safely say the Iroquois are contained. From here, the rest is up to you. I chose to wipe 'em out, but a more pragmatic player (or someone playing a militaristic civ with archers staggered slightly further from Salamanca to hit things exiting the town) would keep them around, having their Elites hit the trickle of attackers and, with luck, generate a leader or two (or three, or four, with some people's luck)!

The second picture is a little easier to understand. Rome on a hill on iron is just bad news. You're not going to crack the Legions easily without losing many, many Swordsmen. But why let Caesar have the numerical advantage? As Carthage, the Numidian Merc is a great "passive-aggressive" fighter. March right in there, rip up Caesar's improvements, and squat outside the gates of Rome. Sure, he's got iron, but I'd like to see him build many Legionaries without any shields. Eventually he'll get impatient and sneak a Legion or three out - THAT'S when you hit them with your swordsmen. After a while, you won't see any more Legions running around... and that's when you pile up swordsmen right outside of Rome (safely protected by a probably-Elite Numidian!) and deliver the coup-de-grace.

So remember kids: If you don't have horses, you can still get the EFFECT of mobility. The key is to encircle and establish a strong front right in the enemy's face, until that slow trickle of foot units turns into an unstoppable flood.

Obviously, this goes well with Zargon's "war-road." Use roads, preferably Industrious ones, to move defensive units to the front, set up shop, then use the same roads to get your attackers in. The best part is that the road is difficult to attack once you've closed the noose, giving you an unquestionable tactical advantage - you can get units in fast, but your opponent has to contend with zero infrastructure and your defensive and offensive forces just to get a few squares out of town. And Carthage has a mean, mean trait/UU combo for just this sort of early shin-kicking.

Now that's what I call a war!

[Aeson]

Using Carthage (Deity) on the second try turned out not too hard to survive. Had 7 Leaders by 500BC (was at about 5 Elite victories per turn) but had only managed to advance a total of 3 tiles outward from my first ring of cities. I grabbed the GL among other wonders, and that has me up to Chivalry. In the process of fighting my way so I can hook up an Iron Colony. It's tough going.

I have an Army of NM's and 20 Cats, and they can keep most the Legions at bay but can't really kill many of them. I sent the Army to protect some workers driving for the Iron, but that was a big mistake, started losing ground badly without it on the front.

Rome has way too many units. I can kill all the Iroquois units, but the Legions just ping pong back and forth between the cats and their towns. Even a 1 HP Legion kills my attackers (Archers/NM's/Horsemen) about half the time. I have a feelings it's a connect the Iron or die game.

England might start shipping over Knights soon, which I wouldn't be able to deal with. So far they've only landed about 20 units, mostly Swords and Spears which die quickly.

[CorpusScorpius]

Hello All.......Everyone seems to have some great stories to go w/ this AU course. I have been playing AU rules Regent PTW & the first 3 times (Ottomans, Aztecs, China) I was TOO passive in my approach & had My HEAD handed to me. I decided to take a More Aggresive Approach w/ the Zulus & The results were Shaka destroyed the Romans circa 2900 b.c & the Iroqouis

[vmxa1]

I have not gotten back to the game yet today, but it seems that you are correct Aeson. It is connect up iron or die. The other thing is you may need the GL as well.
I got the iron, but missed the GL and I am afraid this will spell doom. No tech from England on contact and only one from Rome and Iroq. I suspect that any future contact will not lead to any tech either, unless I have cash.
Researching all on your own and no tech from huts is going to be hard. Especially since you are at war all the time. I am not even sure how I will manage to switch to monarchy when I get it (learning now).
I never saw any barbs to this point 310AD. Of course with troops running all over the land, how would there be any camps.

[Arrian]

Hey all,

I've played up to 1130AD. FYI: Monarch, Persia, 1.14 standard rules.

I nabbed Adam Smith's, but that's it. I just got my second leader, will probably make an army with him.

2 AIs have hit the industrial age - America & England, both somehow (inexplicably!) still republics! The rest are Monarchies. I haven't ventured off my island - I've been in massive builder mode. Universities/Banks all over the place. I'm researching my way toward the industrial age, but I figure I'm just slightly less than 1/2 an age behind. Bah! I will kill them all!

By the way, Alexman, YOU SUCK! No saltpeter, huh? So be it. I wasn't planning on using Cav anyway. I have cats, pikes, immortals & knights holding the island for now. I'm very worried about falling too far behind in tech, though. I've GOT to get England & the US into Monarchy.

This one's tough.

-Arrian

[Aeson]

Very nasty...

Once I connected the Iron, things turned in my favor (at least on my continent). I've finished off the Romans and the Iroquois are down to one city off on a small island. Once the AI's hit Navigation it was pretty much all she wrote though. I did alright as long as I guessed correctly where the next landing would be, but then the Americans landed 3 Cavalry in the wrong spot at the wrong time, and I lost a city. It's full of Riflemen now, and just a matter of time till Cavalry start popping out.

Between the English, Egyptians, Indians, Babylonians, and Americans landing troops every couple turns, my army is wearing a bit thin. I tried to get back into the tech race by building a lot of Libraries once the Romans and Iroquois were being handled, but I'm still very far behind. I made it to Metallurgy and Education, everyone else is in the Industrial Era somewhere. All the AI's are in Democracy.

I probably should have left the Iroquois be, and sent everything I could to grab Saltpeter. Without it I won't be able to build the ships necessary to have a shot at making the crossing now.

Here's about as far as I got. The landing in the East I dealt with (the next wave is tough though), but I couldn't take back the American city and lost my Knight Army in the process. The beginning of the end...

[vmxa1]

Thanks for the heart breaking news about the saltpeter. I had guess that would be the case. No horses, no saltpeter and total war, oh yeah that is nasty. The iron got from Rome ran out just as I got Pikes, so no updates until I can get a road to the one in the hills.
It has been a bugger, I finally captured the Iroq capitol and I am seiging the new one.
Funny thing happen when I got the iron hooked up. I had two spears and a sword in Niagara and the one spear won three battles in a row over MW. I upgraded to pike and he lost then fight without doing any damage. I guess I should have left well enough alone.
I am guessing that no other iron is on this mass as no swords or legions have come my way after the fall of Rome.
I got a seventh leader and I will hold him in the hopes of getting to invention before someone builds Leos.
I have not managed a single wonder after the Pyramids. This is due to the lack of knowledge of them until it is too late. It is aound 750AD, sorry I already forgot the exact date. I have a note that I got the last leader around 720 and stopped soon after that.
This gmes could go south very quickly once the other get knights or calvs.
Hey, am I slow or what. I just realize that horses must be some where for the Iroq to make MW. Curses for being so cautious about expanding.
I have marketplaces in most cities and libs/temples/aquaducts too and a few are making colosseums. Capitol has one. I am sweating naval bombardment coming. Engalnd has so many ships, I can not see much good news on that end. All in all I would not be surprised at a bad fall. Going down swinging though.

[vmxa1]

Aeson, that is about how I expected things to go. Put up a good fight until the lack of resources and tech is too much to overcome.
The massive troops would be hard to deal with even with all the key resources.
Not trading a lick is a big anchor. I am probably one of the players that trade the least, but I do need a few and maybe one or two extortions.
It is very very hard to stop troops that are from the next age, be they calv or MI or tanks. If they have calvs and you have knights or less, you got a problem, unless you have the numbers. In this game you will not have the numbers and they can grind you down.
I bet they are not making war with each once you declare. So you will not get any help with them hurting each other.
I figure that once I get the island to myself that will start the real trouble. The americans are getting a lot of the wonders, so they must be a power house by now.

[vmxa1]

Funny thing is I doubt that the difficulty level will change all that much in the out come. IOW, I wonder if one was to dropped down to even Chief, they would still have a hard time winning. You would maybe get the island conquered faster, but still be faced with the lack of key resources and monsterous AI civs will be coming for you with better tech.

[lmtoops]

I come to the conclusion, that is impossible to win at Emporer. Since I can't win (and I'm a genius ); that is the only logical conclusion.

So I'm droping down a level....make that 2 levels. This scenerio has ruined my weekend.