Early Landing Comparison Game #1

[solo]

rjmatsleepers,

Yes, that's okay. Just make sure to save the game before tipping a hut, so that you can reload if the hut does not produce a unit that can be disbanded.

SG(1) & Dr. Spike,

The time limit is still negotiable, and so far I have not heard from anyone wanting to keep it short. If most players would prefer an extra week, we can postpone the deadline until March, 16.

Records are numerous, and most are qualified in one way or another. Offhand,

Best (and only game) with rehoming - 776 AD
Best with many starting techs and with huts - 336 AD small map, 241 AD - medium map, 295 - large map
Best with many starting techs and without huts - 956 AD

Most of these games benefited from some knowledge about the map.

As of yet, there is no record I know of for a random start, no free techs, and no hut tipping. It will belong to whoever does best in this game.

SG(1) & SCG,

I agree, it is hard! Just trying to make up for not having free techs should extend the game 40 turns or more. It took me a long time to learn my first 8 in this game. You also have less bargaining power to work with when dealing with the AI early in the game. Although difficult, my game so far has been fun.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by solo
Best (and only game) with rehoming - 776 AD
Best with many starting techs and with huts - 336 AD small map, 241 AD - medium map, 295 - large map
Best with many starting techs and without huts - 956 AD

Didn't you want to try rehoming for those really early games to try and get the earliest time possible?

There are 2 times that I think are interesting; one using huts, great start, starting techs, and rehoming to get the best time possible, and the second we are about to attempt.

[DrSpike]

Also Solo what do you think is a good target for the rules we have set? 1250AD?

[SCG]

Originally posted by solo
SG(1) & SCG,

I agree, it is hard! Just trying to make up for not having free techs should extend the game 40 turns or more. It took me a long time to learn my first 8 in this game. You also have less bargaining power to work with when dealing with the AI early in the game. Although difficult, my game so far has been fun.

[rant]I was in republic 40 turns in (and before i got my 7th tech), but other than getting one handy off-path tech, I would have been better off hunting down and destroying the Mongols with as 'friendly' they've been. Half the time i gift techs to the Mongols (I'm supreme), my beaker total remained unchanged... I don't think the Zulu's destroying the English and barbs capturing the Chinese capital helped much either (barb Beijing is still #5 even with 2 cities having wonders)[/rant]

Anyway, when i land (and i still plan on landing ), I'll post my log as how not to get an early landing - and yes, its been fun, and hopefully some people will get a kick out of my use of city names

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Also Solo what do you think is a good target for the rules we have set? 1250AD?

My attempt is going really badly. I'll be very pleased if I can land before 1850!

BTW I'm having a couple of problems with the game.

Firstly, I built a city adjacent to the small lake at (16,20) but the menu is not offering me the chance to build a trireme. Is this a standard feature related to the size of the lake that I have never noticed before?

Secondly, I am blocked from getting to the diplomacy screen. The AI civ says that it is always pleased to speak to me, but then returns to normal game screen. Hence no trading maps, insisting on troops withdrawing, etc.

A possible diagnostic feature. Two buttons have appeared at the top left hand corner which zoom the map in and out. This may be a standard setting that I don't use and didn't realise was there, but I mention it in case it is related.

Any wise men out there who can tell me what is going on?

RJM at Sleepers

[Scouse Gits]

A bit of a shot in the dark - but have you tried clicking View | Arrange Windows - sometimes I have experienced 'masking effects' that have been cured by this ploy?

SG[1]

[Scouse Gits]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers Firstly, I built a city adjacent to the small lake at (16,20) but the menu is not offering me the chance to build a trireme. Is this a standard feature related to the size of the lake that I have never noticed before?
RJM at Sleepers

I have a city next to that lake at 16,22 and I can't build a boat either ... but why would you want to? Cities adjacent to inland seas must have more than one water tile directly next to the founding square.

Don't despair ... with no starting techs or huts and with loving neighbours like the Mongols this game is slow progress.

I'm sorry I can't help with your other problem.

---------------------------

SG(2)

[Scouse Gits]

Git One down!

Early Landing #1 - dream on!!!

3950 = Rome founded (22,16); Settler roading Wine;
3900 = Pottery selected;
3750 = Road completed;
3700 = Pottery -> Alphabet; Warrior completed -> Settler;
3550 = Veii founded (18,12);
3300 = Warrior in Veii, another started; Second wine revealed;
3250 = Alphabet -> Writing;
3150 = Warrior rushed in Veii;
3100 = Veii starts Gardens;
3050 = Rome builds Settler;
2800 = Writing -> Code of Laws;
2600 = Icy Mongols come calling, gift all techs, peace no alliance;
2500 = Mine completed on wine;
2400 = Code of Laws -> Literacy; give to Mongols;
2250 = Antium founded (19,19); Rome builds Settler;
1900 = Literacy -> The Republic; Second Wine now roaded, start mine; gift Lit to Mongols;
1850 = Icy Chinese (Supreme), gift two tech, peace;
1600 = 100K, Veii(3), Rome(1), Antium(2);
1500 = The Republic -> Bronze Working; Antium build Settler;
1450 = Republic established; Lux @ 30%; Warrior disbanded into Gardens;
1400 = Cumae founded (16,22);
1200 = Bronze Working -> Map Making;
1100 = Mongols force us to declare war on Chinese;
1000 = Map Making -> Currency; Establish embassy with Mongols;
0900 = disband diplo and warrior;
0875 = Veii builds Hanging Gardens;
0850 = Currency -> Trade; swap for Ceremonial Burial with Mongols who once more force us to declare war on Chinese;
0700 = Chinese Horse just thwarted with help from Mongols; Neapolis founded (25,13); Population now 410,000
0675 = Trade -> Mysticism;
0500 = Mysticism -> Masonry;
0350 = Masonry -> Construction;
0325 = Veii builds Colossus;
0200 = Construction -> Mathematics;
0175 = Veii(8) builds Library;
0100 = Mathematics -> Astronomy;
AD40 = Astronomy -> Philosophy;
0140 = Philosophy -> Medicine;
0180 = Medicine -> Seafaring; Pompeii founded (14,6);
0200 = Veii builds Aqueduct; The Chinese are all over my back yard! (again);
0260 = Seafaring -> University;
0340 = Veii(10) builds Harbour, sells Temple;
0360 = Veii builds Shakespeare's Theatre;
0400 = Sneak attack by Mongols on Antium, reinforcement blocked by wandering Chinese!
0420 = Sneak attack by Chinese - Rome falls!
0440 = Mongols take Cumae; English destroyed by Zulus;
0480 = Mongols take Antium; Capital moves to Veii; Peace & Maps with Chinese; My forces now consist of 1 Phalanx (on island), 1 Trireme garrisoning Veii and a wandering Diplo - I HATE THIS GAME;
0540 = University -> Theory of Gravity;
0620 = Cumae bought back The Wheel gained;
0680 = Cumae destroyed by Mongol attack;

This game can still be won - but not as an Early Landing - I resign!

SG[1] - much chagrined

[solo]

Dr. Spike,

Rehoming carries a certain stigma, which is why I have not used it after my first sub 1000 AD result.

Otherwise I agree with your assessment of two classes of records, one where you grab any and all advantages allowed within the rules, and the other where elements of luck are reduced to better test player skill, as in this comparison game.

1250 would be a good target, but may be very tough to achieve. I'll have a better idea when I see if my cities can manage enough science for 1 turn advances, as this will be the key.

SCG,

I think gifting techs to the key civ only causes a change for every three or so techs difference between you and them. If you are giving more than 3 at a time and still seeing no change, I do not know exactly why, but it is possible that when the Zulus took out the English, that key civ assignments were shifted, leaving you without any civ to key on, which would be terrible luck.

rjmatsleepers,

If I remember right, a one tile lake will not permit building a ship.

Checking your graphics settings, to see if the diplomacy screen option has become unchecked.

The top left hand corner scrolling options have always been available to me, so I do not think this is an oddity.

No starting techs really increases difficulty, and a with a landing in the 1800's you may have some company.

[Scouse Gits]

Originally posted by solo
SCG,
I think gifting techs to the key civ only causes a change for every three or so techs difference between you and them. If you are giving more than 3 at a time and still seeing no change, I do not know exactly why, but it is possible that when the Zulus took out the English, that key civ assignments were shifted, leaving you without any civ to key on, which would be terrible luck.

Exactly the same happened in my game - the English were vanquished by the Zulus (We should have played that Cricket Match in Harare )

Restarts are on and the replacement Civ is the Carthaginians. I can assure you SCG that gifting tech to the Mongols does pay dividends! Like most of us, I had a period of War with them and during hostilities could not give them advances. After peace I dumped an encarta of tech on their doorstep and my science rate improved.

[1] At first I didn't realise the log was your's ... I saw 680AD at the end and thought solo had landed

An interesting and devious map solo!

-----------------------------

SG(2)

[Scouse Gits]

Cheered by solo's remarks about the 19th century - the RAR picks up where he left off - on a war footing!

SG[1]

[SCG]

heh, and i thought I was having a rough go of it - I lost my domestic trading colony to barbs at one point (got a couple non-archers out of it before reclaiming the city), but otherwise have managed (just by the difference of a knight turning yellow after catching a trireme in port) to hang onto my other cities so far - I've had to go on the offensive - I've captured 4 mongol cities and have more city walls than i have libraries, but i'm still going for a landing maybe I'll post a halfway log after i get home from work

[La Fayette]

Dr SPIKE
I notice that you didn't use any smilie when you mentioned 1250AD as a target
Have you had a try?
IMO if someone beats 1300AD, it will be solo and no one else.
(I guess I'll be happy if I beat 1800AD )

SG(1)
I didn't read your log (except the last line ...easy going...)

[DrSpike]

Yeah ya got me La Fayette, I played the game and landed in 1240, so I tried to set the target at 1250.

Nah I just wanted Solo's opinion on how much the changes to his recent games would affect the time he expected to get. Maybe 1250 is a little ambitious (I haven't seen the map yet), though Solo said there was a nice SSC site.

[rjmatsleepers]

Another one bites the dust

I hit a further problem. I lost one end of my canal system to the Mongols. I went to subvert it back and discovered that my diplomat was not allowed to enter the city - no embassy, no investigation, no sabotage and no subversion. At this point my interest declined and I stopped keeping a log. Some time later another part of my canal was subverted by the zulus - a size 1 city on a mountain with city walls. Without being able to subvert it myself I couldn't see any way of getting it back So I stopped.

However, I was already in the 19th century and still researching industrialisation so I wasn't about to set any records.

I suspect my problems are due to my save file having become corrupted since other saves load and run fine. I might go back to the start and try again - for fun rather than as a comparison game of course.

RJM at Sleepers