Early Landing Comparison Game #1

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by SCG


Launch (1926 land date)

Thanks for the log, SCG - very helpful (and quite a few echoes of my early game )

BTW I've discovered another FW funny in my restarted (just for fun) game. I moved the cursor up to look at the tax rate - and there was no tool bar

So I'll be trying another "just for fun" restart in 2.42

RJM at Sleepers

[solo]

STYOM,

Thanks for pointing me to that excellent thread.

Slow Thinker,

Thanks for bumping that thread, and now I think I see what you meant by equal costs. However, in actual game situations, it still looks to me that you can usually get the best deal when bribing the barbs. I was unaware of all your excellent research on this topic and I look forward to studying it in greater detail.

SCG,

I noticed your log and look forward to reading it after my own is ready for posting.

[SCG]

Originally posted by solo
SCG,

I noticed your log and look forward to reading it after my own is ready for posting.

Especially after things got out of hand turnwise, I probably put as much time into playing with city names as i did actually playing - hope I don't get beat up too much for the Spice Girls joke And I did take out several of my jokes as the game dragged out as long as it did and didn't want people having to change to 10 posts per page to get my log to load

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by SCG
just did a couple quick tests, if the civ is in anarchy, and has no palace and no gold (or is far enough away from the palace that corruption is dominant), a foreign unit will cost the same as a barb unit.

I think that anarchy doesn't affect the price.

Originally posted by solo
Thanks for bumping that thread, and now I think I see what you meant by equal costs. However, in actual game situations, it still looks to me that you can usually get the best deal when bribing the barbs.

I agree. Civs without capital and with 0 gold are rare.

Originally posted by SCG
Also, we're on continent 1, so no way to know where the land ends and the oceans starts

How do you see continent numbers with 2.42? On my computer it works with MGE only.

[SlowThinker]

SG[1], I beated your record! In 2800BC a half of my empire was destroyed by barbs. I was helpless, two archers rose up at my city, my warrior heroically survived the first attack, but not the second. Veii and one supported settler were destroyed. I resigned.

But I started a new game, out of the contest, of course. I played the beginning exactly same way as in my first (abandoned) game, with 2 differences:
1. I went to monarchy and in my first game I decided to risk and to get Bronze Working as the 1st tech. In my second game I got Writing as the 3rd tech in place of BronzeW. I think BronzeW is better for early rushbuys, but Writing grants a little better defense IMHO, especialy against barbs (anyway I would be helpless with Writing as well, barbs came very soon)
2. Barbs forgot to come!

I must admit I missed the ideal SSC site. Although I use the SGs hut and specials finder, I didn't use it in 4000BC. I didn't come upon the idea that I could found a city outside of the river. So I founded Veii one tile South from the SSC.
I realized this fact somewhere in 1000BC, but after some consideration I think it was not a big mistake, maybe it was the correct play. I gained a logistic advantage in comparison with that ideal SSC site. Also I think there is not a big difference between an average SSC site and an excellent one.

I am in 400BC now, I have Marco Polo, HG, 11 cities, I am heading to Colossus on a small island West-North from the starting position.

[Scouse Gits]

ST ... I too can see continent numbers with 2.42 by right clicking.

--------------------

SG(2)

[SCG]

Originally posted by SlowThinker
How do you see continent numbers with 2.42? On my computer it works with MGE only.

You must have an earlier release than 2.42. I used to have Civ II, v 1.07 and couldn't see continent numbers (and engineers ingored ZOC, bombers could fortify etc)

[Bloody Monk]

SlowThinker,

Right click in the black. If it is not ocean, the third coordinant will be different. This can be confusing if you are sited on Continent #1, as ocean reads as #1 also. Same as MPG.

I have a disk that is 2.42; no need to patch. Maybe the patch to original game lacks this feature????

Monk

[ottok]

Originally posted by solo
Now let's try the English one ...

it means that english are Riched than Barbaarians And zulus riched at they!?

But what it is? In one game
i try buy one "barbaarians" Horsemen and i cant buy it:
2130 golds!

Think how much gold i hawe all?


I play celt-zulu-german-spanish-chinese-english-mongols-barbiaans game. all at mee !

[ottok]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
SlowThinker,

Right click in the black. If it is not ocean, the third coordinant will be different. This can be confusing if you are sited on Continent #1, as ocean reads as #1 also. Same as MPG.

I have a disk that is 2.42; no need to patch. Maybe the patch to original game lacks this feature????

Monk

2.4.2?

[solo]

Early landing comparison game #1

I landed in 1276 AD after a launch in 1240.

BC years

3950 Rome
3850 Veii

Rome was at the SSC site. Veii was at the coast at the end of the left hand river. The wine in Rome and the two rivers added some extra trade early, which helped speed up discoveries.

3700 Alphabet, Rom – warrior
3400 Rome – warrior

Veii started with a settler. The plan was for one warrior from Rome to arrive in time to establish martial law before Veii reached size two. The earliest priority is 4 cities, so explorations must wait until this is done.

3350 Code of Laws
3100 Vei – settlers
2900 Antium

Antium was at the first location eastward along the coast from Veii that had a grassland city tile and access to a whale.

2850 Writing

Writing is on the way to early Republic, and it also permits diplomats, who are the best land units for early explorations.

2800 Rome – settlers

This settler will be used for the 4th city, and headed along the coast westward from Rome, looking for a good site.

2650 Ant – warrior
2450 Cumae, barb trireme appears next to Rome

Cumae was on the coast and had a whale to work. Cumae was the 4th city and since 4 cities are the limit for Despotism, the remaining two helpers will be added when the switch is made to Republic. Libraries are being used to accumulate shields for temples until Ceremonial Burial is discovered.

2400 Rome attacked

Without much gold on hand, all I could do was sit tight and hope for the best. Rome survived an attack by a barb archer and its warrior became a veteran. The other barb archer headed off towards Veii and attacked it later. Veii’s warrior survived this with the help of the river’s defensive bonus.

2300 Ceremonial Burial, Mongols discover Veii, Ceremonial Burial given on demand followed by a peace treaty.

It was nice to have found the purple civ so early, but it was also too bad that it happened to be the volatile Mongols, who were looking for trouble. The fact that they were cornered by Roman cities did not augur well.

2250 Vei – temple

The first priority for helpers after making a settler for a new city is to produce a temple to control happiness now and especially a bit later, when the switch is made to early Republic. There is a temptation to use more martial law in the early going, but doing so makes the transition to Republic more difficult. Some players may opt for building the Hanging Gardens instead of using temples, but this plan has a few things working against it in early landing games. Pottery must be learned first, which is an off-path tech, and taking time to acquire it delays the switch to Republic. The HG expires fairly early with the discovery of Railroad, when temples will have to be built, anyways. Controlling helper happiness with luxuries during Republic, and later during Democracy, is not a good idea, either, as this reduces income considerably and can limit research capacity. A clinching argument for early temples is that there isn’t that much else to be doing before the discovery of Trade permits caravans.

2200 Cma – warrior

(I usually use just the first 3 letters of a city’s name when listing builds, but with Cumae this presents a slight conflict with the word choices permitted on these forums!)

1950 Ant – temple
1800 Literacy

Monarchy must be skipped, of course, to reduce tech carrying costs. If acquired, its benefits would not be in effect long enough to make this a worth while plan. It’s better to get to Republic a few turns sooner.

1500 Vei – settlers, Rom – temple
1450 Republic, switch made, Mongols demand it, so it is given. Trade for Bronze Working.

The Mongols also have The Wheel and Horseback Riding, but these will not be needed until later. Now that I’m in Republic, the discovery of Trade becomes a priority, and Bronze Working saves a step along the way. With knowledge of Republic, the Mongols also made the switch and became less menacing afterwards. Warriors that have not already been disbanded to help make temples are disbanded now to free up shields. Now that I have a tech lead, that is all that is needed to keep the AI peaceful, and diplomats can be built, when needed, to deal with barbarian appearances. All cities will be without defense until a space ship is launched, later. Doing this is not as risky as it may seem to those who are used to dealing more aggressively with the AI.

1400 Cma – temple, Ant – settlers, Rome – settlers, Neapolis

Neapolis was westward along the coast from Veii, and was a great location, being on a river and also having a rivered buffalo. The Rome settlers set to work improving the SSC site. After irrigating a grassland, one of the first jobs was to mine those hills having wine, to make the most out the citizens working those tiles.

1250 Mysticism, Pompeii

Mysticism came just in time since the early cities were reaching size 3. Pompeii was located along the coast, southeast of Antium, and had the fish and spice specials. It was also on a river. Having so many rivers around was a great boon to early research and transportation. The first few caravans produced made it to their destinations a lot quicker because of these handy rivers. Cumae was the only city lacking this advantage. Later on, not as many harbors were needed for helpers because of the extra trade and adequate food available from rivered grassland tiles.

1000 Map Making

Map Making is the last key tech needed before pushing on to the discoveries of Trade, Medicine and Sanitation. Now explorations can commence to find an early trading partner, so that the first caravans can be traded for some quick advances and for some extra gold to finance SSC development.

950 Nea – temple, Cma – settlers

Building a settlers in Cumae was a probably not the best thing to do, since this left Cumae lacking enough food to grow to size three, even if some time were taken for extra irrigation. A diplomat or trireme first would have been a better idea, but I was anxious to connect this city to Rome with a road quickly. After extending the road part way, I acknowledged my error and cut my losses by having this settler rejoin Cumae, to get it up to a more productive size 3.

925 Vei – diplomat, Ant – trireme
875 Currency
850 Pom – temple, contact Aztecs, they demand a tech, I refuse, and they declare war.

I know I have been recommending appeasement in earlier posts in this thread, but when the AI is on a separate continent, they do not pose an immediate threat, so a declaration of war does not present a problem. If they have useful techs to trade, they are more likely to do this when peace is established later and relations are on the rebound. However, in situations where a vulnerable caravan is standing by an AI city waiting to be delivered, or when an AI catapult or chariot arrives on the doorstep of a colony demanding Philosophy, appeasement is always the best choice. The AI could be bluffing, but there’s no point in denying their demands to find out they really wanted an excuse to start a war.

775 Trade, Aztecs contacted, peace, trade for Masonry, give tech, share maps.

During this exchange, I also found out that the Aztecs had acquired Monarchy and Warrior Code. With the exchange of maps, all of the target cities for early caravan deliveries were revealed.

700 Nea – wine

This will go to an Aztec city. For helpers such as Neapolis, the first commodity choice was the most valuable one in demand that could be delivered quickly. Wine was wanted by the Aztecs and has an excellent demand bonus.

675 Philosophy, and the freebie is Construction, Aztecs – give tech, share maps; Mongols – trade for The Wheel, give tech, share maps

It wasn’t until now that I had accumulated enough of a tech lead to work the Mongol attitude up to worshipful, in order to share maps. Earlier in the game, I only had enough techs to keep them appeased.

650 Vei – wool, Cma – trireme
625 Rom - copper

The trireme built in Cumae headed to Rome. While there it would reveal the rest of the ocean tiles in Rome’s city radius and would be rehomed to that city, before heading back towards the Mongols with the copper caravan built in Rome.

600 Ant – dye
525 contact Chinese, peace, give tech, share maps

The Chinese offer to trade Seafaring, which I will want to trade for later when a harbor is needed.

500 Pom – settlers, Medicine, wool(d) to Tenochtitlan, 144g, wine(d) to Tlatelolco, 160g

Finally, some gold to speed up Rome’s development. These deliveries also trigger the first 1 turn advance of the game. In my opinion, the onset of trade is the most significant milestone in an early landing game. Before trade, everything comes slowly and with difficulty. Afterwards, it’s just the reverse.

475 Engineering, Rom – beads
450 Nea – cloth, Cma – salt, copper(d) to Karakorum, 104g

This is the first trade route for Rome, and more importantly, became one of the rail connection routes that were so useful later on, after a helper was added next to Rome as a “station”.

425 Rom – wool
400 Pisae

Pisae was the first colony and had access to 2 whales and a buffalo. It was located east of the Aztec cities on their continent. Next to it was another excellent colony site, too.

375 Ant – hides, Vei – dye, Sanitation, Rom – marketplace, dye(d) to Texcoco, 120g

With Sanitation, all tech needed for SSC growth was in place, and all that was needed was Shakespeare’s Theater to get this going.

300 contact Vikings, they demand a tech, war; Mongols, give tech, share maps
275 Vei – hides, Banking
250 Cma – beads
225 Ant – settlers, Rom – food, contact English, trade for Iron Working, give tech, share maps; Chinese – trade for Seafaring

200 Nea – cloth, Rom – Shakepeare’s Theater, we love commences, beads(d) to Tlatelolco, 240g

175 Pom – settlers
150 Rom – harbor
125 Pis – settlers, Mongols – give tech, share maps; Vikings, peace, give tech, share maps
100 Vei – dye, Rom – aqueduct, Mathematics, English – give tech, share maps; beads(d) to Texcoco, 328g; barb horseman bribed, 41g

75 contact Zulus, they demand gold, war
50 Cma – dye, Rom – bank, Zulus – peace, give tech, share maps

I guess the Zulus didn’t really mean to start a war. Another AI inanity is that they often will make peace the turn after declaring war! With a marketplace and bank in Rome, it will start to be earning extra gold coins every turn. These improvements allow the celebration to continue with a lower luxury setting, too, allowing faster research.

AD years

1 Nea – coal
20 Bridge Building

Normally I wait on this one, since the odds are good an AI will learn it in time for a trade, but all those rivers needed bridges. I had thought that this tech among many others would be available through trade from the AI in this game, because we had no free techs at the start and because the AI were likely to tip more huts for techs. However, this did not happen in my own game, where I only got the usual number of techs from the AI via trades.

40 beads(d) to Tenochtitlan, 280g
60 Ant – wool, Rom – coal
100 Rom – sewer system
120 Pom – beads, University, Cma – dye, Rom – Colossus, dye(d) to Tlatelolco, 216g; Zulus, Vikings, English – give tech, share maps

One of the AI almost beat me to building the Colossus wonder.

140 Vei – hides
160 Pis – temple, Nea – cloth, Rom – library
180 Astronomy, beads(d) to Tlaxcala, 96g, wool(d) to Tlaxcala, 120g
220 Pis – beads
260 Economics, Rom – size 21, we love ends
280 Cma – salt, Ant – coal, Vei – hides, Rom – gold
300 Nea – coal, Rom – coal
320 Theory of Gravity, beads(d) to Rome, 420g

This was the first colony delivery back to Rome, and it pays off big time.

360 Ant – food, Rom – university, Ravenna

Ravenna was the second colony and was founded next to Pisae, the first. Unfortunately, while Pisae’s settler was making roads and preparing for Ravenna, the Aztecs snuck in with a settler and founded a city of their own close by, which made it a tight fit for Ravenna. The Aztec city hogged some of the best river tiles in the area, so a harbor for Ravenna became a necessity. However, this city was easy to reach when quick trades had to be made, so its presence was also somewhat beneficial.

380 Pom – wine, Chemistry, Mongols – give tech, share maps, gold(d) to Samarkand, 462g

Now another route to a Mongol city had been established with Rome in preparation for the rail trade route bonus later on.

400 Rom – stock exchange, dye(d) to Tenochtitlan, 296g, hides(d) to Tlaxcala, 144g
420 Rav – beads, Navigation, Pom – salt, Nea – coal, Cma – salt, Ant – coal, Vei – hides, Rom – Copernicus’s Observatory

440 Pis – salt, Invention

So much for good caravan payoffs. Now it’s a race to Democracy, and on to Corporation quickly in order to get trade going full tilt again.

460 Rav – harbor, Vei – hides, Rom – food
480 Democracy, Mongols, give tech, share maps, coal(d) to Samarkand, 195g

I just missed the 460 oedo year for switching governments, which was too bad, since if this can be timed correctly, a turn of research will not be wasted with a revolution when changing governments.

(to be continued)

[solo]

500 Rav – temple, Rom – wool
520 Rom – wine, Physics, revolution

At this time I was learning my 32nd tech, which is when the commodity wildcards for cities change. This introduced some new commodities in Rome at just the right time. Previously, three trade routes had been established with two Mongol cities, which were “sticking”, since these Mongol cities had excellent base trade. This meant that “wonder bread” could be used when newer commodities were delivered from Rome, since the Mongol trade routes were not being replaced. It also meant that deliveries made to Rome would not block commodities that it was demanding.

At this point, a break was taken to figure out which commodities Rome would be supplying and demanding once it was fully developed and after certain techs affecting supply and demand were acquired, and it was determined that Rome would be supplying wine and dye, but that if Pottery were acquired, salt would take the place of dye. I wanted to supply dye, so put off trading for Pottery until the end of the game, saving that trade to reset the tech list. I also determined that Rome would be demanding coal, oil and spice later on, but that when Nuclear Fission was discovered, this would mask the desire for coal.

So the next step was to figure out the demand wildcards for each of the AI cities, in an attempt to find matches for what the SSC would be trading. Supply wildcards of bribable AI cities were also checked to see if any would be suppliers of coal, oil, and spice. I discovered that it would serve me best to keep the Aztec tech total below 32, since this would keep up a good and repeatable demand for wine in Tlatelolco. I also noticed that Isandhlwana, a Zulu size three city, would become a good supplier of spice, which Rome wanted. Its coastal location provided easy access to other Zulu inland cities, too, so when the time was right, I sent in a diplomat to incite a revolt.

540 Rom – Sir Isaac Newton’s College, switch to Democracy, salt(d) to Rome, 234g

The salt came from the first colony, Pisae, which had reached size 3 and had enough trade to displace a Mongol trade route. Doing this unblocked the supply of coal in Rome.

Now that Rome was fully developed, helpers could turn to making harbors and colosseums, to get ready for their own growth. They had already begun on this after enough caravans had been made for Sir Isaac’s.

560 Ant – harbor, Rom – coal, Gunpowder, beads to Rome, 126g

This trade to Rome from the other colony, Ravenna, replaced the Pisae route with its own by lowering the base trade in Pisae temporarily before making the delivery. This trade also unblocked the supply of wine in Rome.

580 Pis – colosseum, Pom – colosseum, Magnetism
600 Rav – colosseum, Cma – harbor, Rom – wine
620 Steam Engine, wine(d) to Nottingham, 165g
640 Pis – copper, Railroad, Chinese, Vikings – give tech, share maps, Zulus – war, Mongols – give tech, share maps, coal(d) to Smarakand, 134g

This final coal trade was made to Smarakand after lowering the base trade in Ravenna enough to replace its route with the one from Samarkand. After this, Rome had three routes established with Mongol cities, in time to get a rail connection established. These routes would “stick” for the rest of the game after this was done.

A war was provoked with the Zulus to justify the dirty work needed to subvert Isandhlwana.

660 Rav – dye, Nea – colosseum, Vei – colosseum, Rom – diplomat, Metallurgy
680 Pis – galleon, wool(d) to Tlatelolco, 344g

The trireme not assigned to Rome was disbanded in Pisae while building a galleon to continue trade with the Aztecs. The trireme assigned to Rome was headed for Isandhlwana.

700 Rom – coal, Industrialization, Nea – transport, Isandhlwana bribed, 488g, 72 gold and Horseback Riding in tribute; Zulus – peace, give tech, share maps

Somehow, I don’t think a human opponent would have wanted a peace treaty right after such treachery. I consider this lack of revengeful feelings to be an endearing AI trait! This city came with a harbor and many military units and took some of the steam out of the Zulu’s aggression towards the English.

720 Isa – colosseum, we love starts in all cities

Isandhlwana had many military units. I disbanded more than were needed to build a temple, so started it off with a colosseum, instead.

740 Mongols – give tech, share maps, dye(d) to Karakorum, 115g, Hispalis, another settler joins the city

Hispalis was located just outside Rome’s city radius, and was used as a station leading to Samarkand and Karakorum, the two Mongol cities making up the three trade routes in Rome. An instant rail bonus was established a few turns later by the remaining settler, which ended up doubling the amount of continuing trade being earned by these routes. Since the “goto” route used by the game to determine this bonus can be tricky, station placement should be as close as possible to the SSC to make sure this benefit is claimed, especially when more than one AI city is involved. The individual “goto” routes to Samarakand and Karakorum diverged after leaving Hispalis. Now, 1 turn advances are easily attainable with city science.

Hispalis served another function, acting as the recipient of “wonder bread” from Rome, when this ploy was needed to re-supply Rome’s wine and dye. Hispalis never grew and just accumulated shields that were used to help build the Apollo wonder later on.

760 Corporation, wine(d) to Tlatelolco, 430g
780 His – temple, Isa – silk, Pis – cloth, Rom – dye, Rav, Vei – transports, coal(d) to Samarkand, 137g

800 Cma, Ant – colosseums, Rom – wine, Refining, copper(d) to Rome, 176g, we love ends

Now all helpers except Hispalis were at size 7 or 8, and all colonies were at size 7. Rome reached its maximum size of 24 citizens, and could produce 1008 beakers, now that the rail connections were in place. These had doubled the three ongoing trade route values from 12 to 24 arrows, each. Without this bonus, Rome would have only been producing 786 beakers. Helpers and colonies were adding a little over 200 beakers, so at the maximum science setting, 1227 beakers were available. The current tech cost was only 1134.

820 Isa – temple, Pis – gold, Pom – salt, Explosives
840 Combustion, dye(d) to Calixtlahuaca, 532g, wine(d) to Tlatelolco, 650g, Mongols – give tech, share maps

860 His – engineers, Rav – engineers, Atomic Theory, Isa –coal, Pom – dye, Nea – engineers, Cma – coal, Ant – gems, Vei – engineers, Rom – dye, Electricity

This was the first of many turns with two advances. The only disadvantage with Rome, was that its freights could not reach transports on the south coast without using up movement points. It’s desirable to deliver an SSC freight on the turn it is produced, so that another can be re-supplied more quickly with wonder bread. Most of these new engineers were used to speed up the rail connection from from Rome to Veii. One engineer was going to be sent to make some roads leading to inland Aztec cities, such as Tlatelolco, so that freights landing on that continent could reach their destinations without wasting a turn.

860 Rom – food, gold(d) to Hispalis, 132g

Each food produced by Rome, when contributed to the wonder being built in Hispalis, caused a re-supply of wine and dye, since neither commodity had been used in the 3 railed routes to the Mongol cities. Wine was always in demand in Tlatelolco, and dye was always in demand somewhere else.

880 Rom – wine, Electronics, salt(d) to Calixtlahuaca, 152g
900 His – silk, Rav – wine, Isa – beads, Pom – library, Steel, cloth(d) to Cumae, 192g, silk(d) to Calixtlahuaca, 294g

920 Pis – gold, Vei – copper, Automobile, dye(d) to Kaupang, 680g, wine(d) to Tlatelolco, 660g

More turns with two advances are imminent. Automobile means superhighways, and things that are already very good, get dramatically better when this improvement is added to Rome and all of the helpers and colonies.

940 His – dye, Mass Production, Rav, Pom – superhighways, Nea – silver, Cma – hides, Rom – superhighways, Nuclear Fission, gold(d) to Pompeii, 218g, gems(d) to Nottingham, 300g, English – trade for Warrior Code, share maps, Aztecs – trade for Monarchy, share maps

The addition of superhighways in Rome increased its beaker capacity to 1308.

960 Isa – spice, Pis – superhighways, Rom – food, Conscription, silk(d) to Ravenna, 188g, silver(d) to Rom – 300g, copper(d) to Tenochtitlan, 180g

980 Isa – dye, Nea – cloth, Vei – superhighways, Rom – wine, Feudalism, wine(d) to Karakorum, 397g, copper(d) to Tenochtitlan, 306g

1000 Rav – oil, Pis – cloth, Pom – gold, Cma – superhighways, Rom – dye, Chivalry, wine(d) to Tlatelolco, 1008g

1020 Isa, Nea, Ant – superhighways, Vei – transport, Rom –food, Leadership, Zulus – give tech, share maps, coal(d) to Pompeii, 544g, beads(d) to Hispalis, 188g, oil(d) to Rome, 1026g, cloth to Veii, 116g

1040 Nuclear Power, Rav – cloth, Pis – gold, Pom – university, Cma – oil, Rom – wine, Laser, coal(d) to Pisae, 400g, wine(d) to Tlatelolco, 1062g, hides(d) to Tlaxcala, 360g

1060 Tactics, Isa – engineers, Pom – oil, Nea – gold, Ant – library, Vei – library, Rom – food, dye(d) to Beijing, 336g, dye(d) to Tlaxcala, 828g, dye(d) to Hlobane, 546g, Vikings, Mongols – give tech, trade maps

The Vikings were given enough techs to make sure they had more than 32, because a destination for some gold was needed, and Kaupang’s demand wildcard would be gold when the Vikings had enough techs.

1080 Machine Tools, Rav – food, Pis – cloth, Pom – silk, Cma – copper, Vei – university, Rom – wine, Mobile Warfare, spice(d) to Rome, 1074g, gold(d) to Hispalis, 200g, wine(d) to Tlatelolco, 1005g

Trades peaked on this turn with over 2200 gold earned.

1100 Miniaturization, Nea – food, Ant – university, Rom – dye, Computers, oil(d) to Ravenna, 537g, cloth to Ravenna, 32g, dye(d) to Teotihuacan, 104g

1120 Rav – oil, Pis, Pom, Cma – food, Vei – dye, Rom – Research Lab, Flight, silk(d) to Kaupang, 330g, gold(d) to Kaupang, 330g, gold(d) to Kaupang, 378g, dye(d) to Tlatelolco, 500g, copper(d) to Texcoco, 252g

The silk trade to Kaupang was used to trigger the appearance of its gold demand wildcard. On the previous turn, the cloth delivery to Ravenna was used to unblock its supply of oil. Beakers available peaked here, with Rome producing 1368 and the other cities adding another 458 for a total of 1826, which was more than enough.

1140 Radio, Isa – dye, Nea – food, Cma – oil, Ant, Rom – food, Advanced Flight, oil(d) to Rome, 598g, Mongols – trade for Pottery, give tech, share maps

Now that trade was winding down, Pottery could be acquired to allow research to be switched to Rocketry instead.

1160 Rav, Pis – food, Pom – gold, Vei – food, Rome – dye, Rocketry, dye(d) to Nottingham, 232g, oil(d) to Isandhlwana, 480g, dye(d) to Tlaxcala, 432g

1180 Isa – spice, Pom – dye, Nea, Cma, Ant – food, Rome – wine, Space Flight, wine(d) to Bokhara, 176g, oil(d) to Ravenna, 358g, Zulus – 200g tribute, give tech, share maps, Chinese – give tech, share maps, Aztecs – trade for Communism, share maps, Mongols – give tech share maps

I was looking for an AI that had a tech to trade to reset the tech list next turn.

1200 His – Apollo Program, Rav – oil, Isa – diplomat, Pis, Vei – food, Rom – salt, Plastics, spice(d) to Rome, 947g, cloth(d) to Hlobane, 350g, gold(d) to Kaupang, 300g, English – give tech, share maps

1220 All helpers and colonies – SS structurals, Rome – SS Component, Superconductor, salt(d) to Nottingham, 608g, oil(d) to Rome, 629g, dye(d) to Samarkand, 296g, Mongols – 50g tribute, give tech, share maps

Not too greedy on part of the Mongols, since I had over 4000 gold.

1240 His – SS Component, Rav – SS structural, Isa – SS Module, Pis – SS structural, Pom – SS Module, Nea, Cma, Ant, Vei – SS structurals, Rom – SS Module, Fusion Power 15-1-1-1-1-1, Launch, ETA 1276

Well, at least I was able to launch by Dr. Spike’s landing date! I had over 2000 gold leftover, and had purchased most of the spaceship with cash from trades, so could have made a faster ship by building two more cities a few turns earlier.

Once a spaceship is launched, the game becomes boring for me and doing things like building more wonders or attacking the AI were worn out amusements while waiting 36 turns, so for this game I decided to defend and play it Gandhi style, and adopted a policy of non-violent resistance.

I defended my cities, but never attacked nor declared war on any of the AI, and they were not impressed. During this time the Aztecs devoted themselves to some single-minded sabotage against Pisae, and with an almost endless supply of diplomats, stripped that city of all improvements and sabotaged every build attempted there for the rest of the game. This put me into Anarchy for awhile, during which the Zulus got even by reclaiming Isandhlwana by inciting a revolt. The other AI were not impressed with the non-violent approach, either, and numerous “secret” alliances were formed to try and do in the Romans. My attempts at Satyagraha failed miserably with the AI, and I have concluded that they have no conscience or morals, whatsoever.

1276 Arrival on Alpha Centauri

[solo]

SCG,

I have posted my log now, so could download and look at your game. I'm loving those city names and am antcipating some fun in reading your log, which is printing now.

Thanks for your tests on bribes.

Slow Thinker,

I am finding a lot of good stuff in that thread and do not know how I could have missed seeing it before.

I agree that a great SSC site is possible without settling on the "ideal spot".

Your games and approach seem quite similar to what SG(1) was up to in his game. Too bad about the barbs in the first one, but for you and others who are on additional attempts, please feel welcome to post logs and/or descriptions of these later, as I think they will be of interest to all, even if they do not "count".

ottok,

Please attach a save of the game where it cost 2130 gold to bribe a barb horseman! This is something I have to see.

2.42 is the version number of the latest patch for CivII. It can still be downloaded to bring your own version of the game up to date.

[La Fayette]

solo

I notice that I guessed right: 'solo certainly the only one able to land before 1300AD'.
Great!

I also notice that I was only 2 techs behind you in 1AD (with quite a different approach, including long stay in Monarchy and building Marco). This means that I might be able to improve my landing date noticeably (without dreaming of beating you, of course ) if I take care about what I do after 1AD.
That is what I am going to do, for training: replay from 1AD (hoping to beat 1750 )

[Bloody Monk]

Solo,

Congratulations on a great game!!

I have only read your logs up to AD time, as I am just there myself. I'm very tempted to read the rest of your log but I am going to finish first...to see how I do w/o the assist.

Here are a few thoughts:

1) Location, location, location...I like the way you sited your first seven cities, but mine are much more tightly spaced. I had the seventh by 1100bc, and with roads/rivers, the lines of communication are shorter. I was reluctant to overlap so much, but I think this works too.

2) Monarchy works fine...We have talked about this before. I don't like Republic so early in situations where whales and silk are scarce. The food/shield hit to little dirt-holes is profound and if trade specials don't give extra arrows, the weight is whithering. With Monarchy it is easier to carry settlers and get the roads down pronto. The payoff claimed for early Republic is faster research. but, as will be seen, Monarchy did not slow my advances, relative to your pace...yet.

3) Early diplomat exploration...I sent out a dip to explore eastward by 1700 and found the Chinese by 1150. I can't prove the game works this way, but my sense is that early contact is more likely to result in an alliance. I also established an Embassy. The Chinese allies have given 300g in response to my requests, and knowing their research-and nudging it some-has yeilded 6 advances by swap.

4) Sleaze to Freeze...As a result of packing my cities tightly, I sited Pompeii at (12,26) and stationed a warrior on the swamp just in front of it. This bottled up the Mongols as my sixth city in 1750. That made me supreme and I never let then stay long as "Uncooperative", so they haven't yet sneak attacked. They would not ally from the beginning even when "Worshipful", so I am not sure this can last. But so far, the basic bow and scrape approach is working. It helps that they are the key civ. It also helped to hold back on gifting the Mongols Monarchy until I could first give them Republic. That settled them down very much.

5) Research Path...I listed our choices side by side and even the order is very close. I have all on your list plus three more, two that are off-path for you (Monarchy and Pottery) and Astronomy. Pottery and Astro I got by swap and Astro I got too early. The Vikings offered Math when I met them and when I went back later to get it, Astro was on the list and I bonked. Should have left it until I was ready to build Cope's (that was 575bc) rather than carry it so long. You got 5 by swap; I got 11, including 6 from the Chin. I always make a note (when I visit an AI to gift tech, get maps, keep em happy,etc) of what is on offer so I can remember to go back at the right time to swap. I hope the extra carrying costs don't catch up with me later. I can't count on much more help from the AI research

6) Wonders...I agree with all you have said about NOT building the Gardens--but, in this case, I built the Gardens. It's funny because I had just written on another thread about not automatically building HG, especially in early landing attempts. I roamed a bit before placing Rome, and afterwards, and I did not the prospects. I built HG to get size 5 helpers (w/o Colosseums) to Xin up the research. I am toying with the idea of going off the reservation again by building Mike's Chapel instead of Colosseums everywhere. It will avoid the upkeep and get it done in one fell swoop. The cost is two extra techs (if someone does Poly for me it would look better), eight camels and time...time being the deciding factor. Still thinking that one through.

As it was, I finished ST the turn before you and Colossus in 1ad. And of course HG in 550, just before Republic.

7) You have done a much better job of founding your colonies and starting offshore trading. I am going to have to send extra settlers to join or the cities will never grow fast enough. I may have spent too much time on preping the local scene, and while this looks to be a good start, I doubt I will do nearly as well with the trading to come. I still don't get the subtle details of chosing colony sites, wildcards, triggers,etc.

I really appreciate the way you constructed your log and its extensive commentary. It is very helpful. Thanks.

Monk