Scenarios: Conflicts in Civilization

[La Fayette]

Re: Discover

Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq
So off the north america to settle Nieuwvondland (guess where that is ). .

Nice idea to name it in dutch, since you are Dutch in this game.
The French name is 'Terre Neuve'.
BTW do you know that the 2 small islands, close to Nieuwvondland, named 'Saint Pierre et Miquelon' are French?

Back to the game:

Marquis
Your strategy heading West is much closer what happened in the real world than the one I chose. And I suppose you might be earning good money if you manage to grow a fat city in America.
Please, play on! It will be fun to compare.

arii
Yes, this is deity (I seem to remember a few posts by Markusf telling us that he was playing King against you - ...and seemed to be very happy with some fat cities he managed to grow
).
Anyway, I suppose that if you try to compete with the Neutrals in the early game, you are bound to lose. Nevertheless, Good luck!
(and feel free to start a game #3 if you are not satisfied with #2; we play for fun and for the pleasure of discussing and learning from our mistakes).

I have started a second game with the same general idea as the previous one: grow a small Dutch civ with help of WLTCD, then take the British Isles from the English, without bothering too much with exploring in the early game.

But I tried (and managed ) to start fighting much earlier:
1564 = York
1577 = Dublin
1584 = London + Plymouth
1608 = Paris
1614 = Nantes
1620 = Lyon
1628 = Valencia
1630 = Coruna
1633 = Lisbon
One Spanish city left and Western Europe is mine (despite hard fighting by the Neutrals who have already lost more than 250 units!).


(La Fayette, wondering whether Dutchmen are now going to attack the Neutrals or the Natives).

[La Fayette]

fighting the Neutrals

I chose to fight the Neutrals since they are so friendly and close to me.
1636: Florence + Naples
1641: Istambul
1645: Vienna

(I forgot to inform you that the guidebook states that changing government is impossible in this scenario, but in fact it is possible to change once, when you acquire the tech named 'Democracy', and I did it: I am now a democrat)


(La Fayette, facing the Republicans)

[arii]

I stopped at 1616.
I am also a democracy (since1563). I have gotten all the key techs (explosive, sanitation, democracy), the happy wonders: mike and JSB(capture from french). I have so far capture france, england and russia. Barely started NAm with 1 city captured.
I'm on a roll now: 600g/turn+1 city captured/turn.
I have now 6 cities in NAm 14 in europe 6 in asia.
I am focusing right now on finishing europe and conquering NAm

[La Fayette]

go west, young man!

arii
It is clear that my strategy concentrating on Europe just as if the rest of the world didn't exist is:
1) against the historical reality
2) much less performing than the worldwide one that you chose
(I have a save from 1614: 14 cities in Europe and 450 gold/turn = not bad, but you did much better).
Therefore I stop where I am (1650, smashing the Neutrals), and start a new game with 'DISCOVER' in the back of my mind.

(La Fayette, with a greedy eye on America)

[Marquis de Sodaq]

I've only played to 1548 so far. I'd planned to go further, but got frustrated with the seige of Moscow. My cannon kept blasting away defenders, but the Neutrals never ran out! There were no reinforcements, as my dragoons kept them away. Six musketeers killed in two turns, but no victory! Then my vet musketeer in fortress and forest (def=13.5) was killed by a neutral dragoon (att=7.5) who hardly needed a bandage after the attack. Time to stop for the day.

The Dutch now have Groenland Oost and Groenland West to benefit from all the walrus. The Portuguese have mysteriously vanished from the northern reaches.

I'll spend the next 30 years or so building cannon, then march on England. I might as well capture Lisbon, too.

[arii]

Don't feel back marquis, I've had some setbacks too. My first attack on london fail. Attacked with 7 canons instead of waiting for more. Too impatient! Lost them all without capturing the city.
I also lost a couple cities to the neutral. 2 bribed (I bribed them back), 1 destroyed, 2 captured (build a city 2 squarre away from 1 of their city and 3 dragons showed up 3 turns later).

[arii]

Stopped in 1633. Captured all europe expcept florance and vienna, tenochtitlan and couple more true people cities (gouvernement keeps escaping) and am ready to take beijing.
I am about 25 cities away from the 2/3 objective. The true people have 26 cities left and the neutral 40. I am capturing 2-3 cities/turn so I should be done in 8-9 turns. Turns are really long now though moving about 50 canons a turn takes quite some time.
After capturing beijing I will go on a bribing rampage in africa.

[La Fayette]

go west! ...and go east too!

arii
savegame in 1616, just to compare with yours: 16 cities and 700 gold/turn.
This 'worldwide' strategy is definitely more performing than the 'european' one I chose previously.
I built a Dutch civ of 12 cities spread from Canada to Siberia and didn't attack anyone before 1600.
It will be fun to notice whether I shall be able to compete with your 'Attila like' rythm of conquest.

Marquis
Have you not been attacking strong enemies a bit early?

(La Fayette, with 3 (!) greedy eyes, one towards Canada, one towards Spain and one towards Siberia)

[arii]

Stopped in 1646 and am not done yet. I have 75 cities and there is 50 left. I need 8 more, if they don't build anymore. The neutrals are building quite a lot. The french, english and spanish are no longer.
I now have all of europe, all north and central america, half south america, north and west africa and northen asia. It took me 2 attempts to capture cairo and beijing with many, many defenders in those.
Hopefully 3 more turns.

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by arii
Stopped in 1646 and am not done yet. I have 75 cities and there is 50 left
Hopefully 3 more turns.

arii
early lander = also early conqueror
It seems that you are on your way to manage conquering 2/3 of the cities before 1650!
Not easy to beat, I suppose.
Anyway I play until I own 2/3 and let you know.
(IMO this limit of 2/3 looks fine for all scenarios without specific objectives; what do you think?)

(La Fayette, looking at the timetable, so many cities left and so few years ahead)

[arii]

1647 and I have met the objective. I now have 85 cities. There are 42 cities left, thus 127 total cities. 2/3 = 84.7
Portuguese have 1 left (in south america), true people 5 (central africa), neutrals 36 (southern part of asia and middle east).
This last turn I got nanking (size 23) lost about 15 canons and bribed 4-5 cities.

[La Fayette]

congratulations

arii
I name you Attila!
I promise I do my best to beat you, but it looks difficult, though I am now approaching the top of the powergraph and 1000gold/turn.
More news when I reach the thirties (1630ies I mean)

[La Fayette]

dommage!

1647
I have 'only' 80 cities.
I would have loved to finish on the same turn as you, arii, ...
... and in fact I was about to manage it, but there was a very sneaky attack by the AI in 1644. Beijing (with HG and JSB inside!) taken back by the Neutrals and 90% of Dutch cities switch to civil disorder!

Well done, arii
Which one do we play next?

[arii]

I tried to play the beggining again and am doing much better in this 1. My strategy was simply to maintain peace with neutrals at all costs (exept tribute) and build an economic powerhouse to bribe the cities that are far from the capitols.
I am in 1586, 22 cities. 600g/turn @80%taxes. I have 8 cities of size 14+ that is my economic engine.
I have so far bribed the true people african empire, the french north american empire and started the south american portugese empire.
I don't think I'll play till the end though, just wanted to try a different strategy.
I'm ready for a new scenario too.

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by arii
I am in 1586, 22 cities. 600g/turn @80%taxes. I have 8 cities of size 14+ that is my economic engine.
I'm ready for a new scenario too.

Great!
Your second try shows clearly that economic power is the cornerstone.

I have started to play 'Rabid Rodent' (the comparison game that the SGs started in their thread 'Laugh at the SGs'), just for a change (since I have been playing almost only scenarios in 2001).

What would you think of playing 'Mongol' next?