Going for 500 AD landings on standard maps

[Bloody Monk]

Solo,

What a great piece on how to think about hut strategy!! Thanks.

There have been so many helpful posts in this thread. It makes me really wish I had gotten a replacement printer for Christmas.

Monk

[Scouse Gits]

solo ... good advice on huts

The 100% rule for nomads is new to me. Has that been tested? Is it the same for tribes on good terrain?

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SG(2)

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
Solo,

What a great piece on how to think about hut strategy!! Thanks.

There have been so many helpful posts in this thread. It makes me really wish I had gotten a replacement printer for Christmas.

Monk

The Monk said it all

[solo]

SG(2),

Thanks for that question, since I think I came away with the wrong impression the first time after reading the "Continent Rule" section of Samson's thread on his study of hut outcomes.

I have just rechecked it, and it now appears that the human player's chances here are 47%, and the 100% only applies when the AI does the tipping. In both cases, the closest city must be at a distance of over 12 from the hut.

47% is still very good odds, but I do apologize to all here for my error in the previous post.

[Scouse Gits]

solo

Absolutely no apologies necessary!

Your wisdom in this field has enhanced the game for all your readers - even despicable rodents like myself

SG[1]

[solo]

Sometimes the barbs land and attack without any warning!

(Well, attaching that image did not work. I will try again)

[solo]

One more time...

[Bloody Monk]

Solo,

Condolences. Such a sad tragic picture

That must have been a bummer.

Now, how did you go about making/capturing the image?? Does it require another program?? Being able to present a single image really illustrates a point well.

Monk

[solo]

BM,

This goes with the territory when taking bigger risks, as noted in your excellent post. The successes make up for the "oh wells"! By the way, did you continue your game? If so, how did it go?

I am not really the one to ask about capturing and posting images, since I still do not know how to get one to appear automatically as part of a post, but I see others do this a lot.

I will offer what I know, which is to press the Prt Scr key oin my keyboard, which captures the screen. Then I quit my game and start Paint. Then under the Edit tab, I select Paste, and presto, the image is there. Finally I shrink and save it as a .gif file and attach to my post as I would with a save.

I would be grateful if someone else might explain a better way of doing this.


To all,

Well, that last game was good for a laugh, and goes to show that taking chances to maximize early development does not always payoff in a big way! The start used for that game had 8 free techs, and will be attached below. (I hope I counted correctly this time! I used to be good in math long ago, before reaching the age of 30!)

In light of that result, it may not be the best time to offer some more advice on early landing strategy, but I will take the plunge and go ahead and do this anyways!


Learning quickly without hitting the books

I have found SG’s “A is for Alphabet” thread invaluable in making the most out of early tech acquisition. This thread described an exhaustive test determining the number and nature of techs likely to be received at the start of a game by the different kinds of civs, whether they are classified as civilized, neutral or militaristic.

One of the reasons I use the Americans is because as a civilized civ, the free techs they are most likely to receive are the ones along the path towards other techs that I want to acquire early. The Americans are also less likely to get less desirable techs such as Warrior Code and Horseback Riding. The other reasons I pick the Americans are because they often get many free techs at the start, and because Samson noted that they end up as the key civ for the civ that becomes rated as Strong. The vast American tech lead allows the Strong civ to learn faster and help acquire techs as a research assistant.

There is more information from SG’s thread that comes in very handy, since each random start will produce a good balance of the different kinds of civs, including the neutral and militaristic types. This is quite beneficial, because other civs get free techs at the start, often picking up ones never coming with an American start. For example, neutral civs can get the following techs for free: Iron Working, Wheel, and Map Making and Militaristic civs can get Iron Working and Wheel. When these types of civs are likely to come up with these techs for free, it’s usually a good choice for the Americans to defer researching them until contact is made with some of the AI in the game. Why learn something yourself, when you can trade for it a just little later?

Another thing I learned is that these other civs are as likely to get certain techs for free as often as they come as freebies for the American. Examples here are Ceremonial Burial, Bronze Working, Currency, Pottery, Mysticism and Masonry. Again, it may be better to defer learning these more common freebies, and to concentrate early on techs that can not come free with another civ’s start. A good example of this would be Mathematics, which I often choose first, because I can be fairly certain that the other techs I need fairly early will be available through trade.

After playing many games, I have noticed that the techs usually offered by the AI conform to the ones that are most likely on SG’s list for each type of civ. However, there has been one exception. After starting many games as the Americans (or as the civilized Romans in OCC), I have often picked up Writing from another civilized civ, such as the French. Although SG’s tests never yielded Writing as a free tech, I was getting it by trade so often and so early from civilized civs that I was fairly certain they had not learned it by the time contact was made.

Quite some time ago, when I first noticed this oddity about Writing, I decided to check a few 4000 BC saves I had kept on file from previous games. After loading several of these games and revealing the map, I noticed that the other civilized civ often started the game with Writing as a free tech. As the human player, it has never come to me for free at the start, but apparently it is available as a freebie for the AI, if we are both civilized. In any event, having discovered this little tidbit, I have found that Writing is often available earlier by trade than by direct research, and this knowledge has helped me to get to Republic faster than usually possible in several early landing games. In fact, sometimes I have been lucky enough to have the other civilized civ pursue and learn Literacy very early, and save me the trouble of learning this vital tech, too.

When checking these earlier saves, I did not notice any other deviations from the findings presented in SG’s thread. Free techs being received by the neutral and militaristic civs were ones they were expected to receive, with frequencies of individual techs also seeming to conform pretty much to SG’s findings. From this, I have surmised that it is likely that the two techs, Mathematics and Polytheism, which never show up for free for the human player, may be available to the corresponding AI in games where the human picks a militaristic or neutral civ when beginning a game. This is just a theory, and may not be worth testing to see if it has any validity.

All of this information just goes to show that the AI can provide more help than anticipated in early tech acquisition, if the human player concentrates on techs that the AI are unlikely to have or acquire first. More often than not, studying a tech such as Mathematics, which may not seem so vital early on, is a good way of maximizing the chances of getting all needed techs earlier, since less tech duplication increases chances of tech acquisition by trades.

Another good early choice for research might be Mysticism, since this tech has one of the lowest frequencies in appearance as a free one. In early landing games where temples are built early, it comes in handy for happiness control, while also being along the path towards Philosophy, which with Mathematics, opens up University as an eligible tech. In a previous post, I noted that by accomplishing this quickly, the odds of seeing Warrior Code emerge from a hut afterwards become very low.

Of course, deferring the research of vital techs such as Map Making or Writing can lead to a poor result, if it turns out that they are not available from the AI through trade later on. However, by arranging the odds of great success in your favor by assuming that these beneficial trades will be available later, a lot of turns can be trimmed off an early landing attempt. The potential rewards are worth the risk, because if things don’t work out as planned in the present game, the odds are that they might in the next, or the next.

[solo]

Oops, I forgot to attach the save of the start. Here it is:

[Bloody Monk]

Solo,

Thanks for the clear advice on capturing images. I'll have to play with the shink %'s, but I've basically got it.

Thanks, too, for the expansion on tech basics. Having your thinking behind the thinking makes me appreciate even more the depth of your insight into how to "do" this gamestyle.

I am still playing the "game." What with a friend in the hospital and my general slow play, I'm still at it. And learning and enjoying myself immensely, thank you very much.

I noticed something interesting about the rail-route bonus. I got the jump in ongoing route numbers when the rail link was completed to Bluffalo, even though the intervening tile to Rome only had a road. Is this part of the benifit (discussed in a different thread) that accrues to founding a city along the path from your SSC to the AI target city??

Monk

[La Fayette]

One more post with good advice included
Perhaps I finally manage to land before 1000AD once in my life, after reading so much good advice
... not in my present game, though

[Scouse Gits]

solo - Although the starting techs of the AI were not tested in any systematic way I do recall entering cheat on some occasions to monitor free science for the non human civs. I'm sure you are correct about Writing. The one we were interested in was Map Making, which unlike Writing, does very occasionally become available to the human at 4000BC ... but always as the eighth tech. (It seems you can never have MM from the start unless you have 8 free advances, and your geography is likely to be near either pole). The AI often gets Map Making from day one, presumably to ease the exchange of territorial details. This also helps it explore early with triremes that race across the oceans without land in sight!

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SG(2)

[solo]

Monk,

Yes, see Samson's thread on phantom roads and rails for complete details as to how to get this bonus using a "station". It can be tricky, as the route has to follow the right path in order to work. Once it's right, you can certainly tell the difference!


La Fayette,

The more I play, the harder it is for me to match many earlier results. It seems that the first time I try a new start or strategy, I often have great "beginner's luck".

For example, the start I used for my 776 rehoming game, over a year ago, was the very first random start I tried for this type of game, playing as the Americans. In retrospect, the odds of getting such a great starting position on the very first try are about as likely as winning a big lottery.

I wish I could bottle this beginner's luck and save it for future games after having learned of better strategies. My most recent games with very good starts have been not going well, for a variety of "minor" reasons that end up causing "major" delays.

In my latest, which began very well, I am still lacking the discovery of Automobile in 300 AD, and may not even get enough good trade going to be able to finish before 1000 AD.


SG(2),

I just saw your post and agree about Map Making. I can tell that the AI get it all the time, while I have yet to receive it as a free tech. Could be that the same is true for Writing. Since 8 free tech starts are few and far between, I may not have had one yet where it shows up as my last one.

[SCG]

Originally posted by solo
I am not really the one to ask about capturing and posting images, since I still do not know how to get one to appear automatically as part of a post, but I see others do this a lot.

when you do a reply, don't do the post quick reply. from the post reply screen, you should see a section called vB Code. one of the buttons there is IMG. Using that, you can provide a link to an image stored elsewhere. The main catch is that it does seem to require an internet adress to where the picture is hosted, so if you don't currently have a website where you can post your own pictures and link to them, attachements are the next best thing.