Civ3: Who's resolve is first to falter?

[Carolus Rex]

Or a computer!

Do you like the game, Ming? Is it as addictive as ol' Civ 2 was (is)?

Carolus

[Bird]

Originally posted by Bird
I bought it, only to find out I need a new computer to play it. Bummer.

Guess what I got.

[rah]

Until we figure out all the game mechanics, I would have to say yes it is just as addictive.

BUT, there are a couple of real annoying aspects that may really hurt replayablity enjoyment. So the jury is still out. I'll let you know after a few more times.

Corruption. I want it to be tough, but it is just ridiculous. A minor tweak is necessary. When you have a large city, not that far from you capital and you're suffering over 95% corruption even after you've built the courthouse, celebrating, and in Democracy, something needs to be tweeked. I mean even 66% wouldn't bother me. But the current levels are so unrealistic that it sucks some of the fun out. And no realism isn't the end all but this is way overdone.

Combat. This is just a minor whine so don't call me a wimp. With the removal of firepower, there are a few too many of the old phalanx beats battleship type fights. Now quantity over quality is more important. Granted, if you use combined tactics......... bombardment/mobile/brute force it resolves the issue, but you shouldn't have to when a it's only a couple of spearmen defending. This can be worked around so it's not as important to me as the Corruption issue. And in fact sometimes it's fun to work around this one. It just makes you laugh a few times. It seems that the AI gets the better end of this one, but I may have just not played enough and am a little paranoid.

Borders. The AI can order me to withdraw my units or face war, but they will agree to remove their troops again and again and still not do it. Again this is more minor and I can deal with it.
If you've got real good relations with and equal or inferior civ, they do have a tendency to actually go along with it more often then not. But a lot of the expansionist civs just ignore it.

RAH

[rah]

Originally posted by Bird


Guess what I got.

A NEW CAR?


Good, we expect you to start contributing positive items to this thread. Good to see you joining the club. Hopefully you won't stop playing MP.

Rich

[Carolus Rex]

Thanks!

After talking to Smash via ICQ I got the impression that the game is more fun for those who like the war aspect of civ. Without having to think about (and setting up) trade routes, is there much to do during the turns for peaceful rulers like myself ? Or is "hit enter and wait for the completion of city improvements" what it's about if you want to skip wars?

I fear I'm gonna miss my camels!

Carolus

[Bird]

Yep, I installed the game on my new car and played last night for the first time. Started a game at deity and quit after about 45 minutes to go back to monarchy level. The interface and gameplay differences between this and Civ II are fairly significant and it seems clear to me that I'll need to gain familiarity with the new game before playing at deity level.

Anyway, I played to about 500 AD before calling it a night. My only strategic observation so far is that it seems granaries will be very important for the early years, since it will help alleviate the costs of rushbuilding.

I also don't like the fact that you can't save shields that were accumulated towards a wonder when the ai beats you to the wonder and you can't change to another wonder. I knew when it was first reported that this happens that I wouldn't like it, and now that it's happened to me I dislike it even more.

This will not distract from MP. See you Saturday night.

[Xin Yu]

Originally posted by rah

Borders. The AI can order me to withdraw my units or face war, but they will agree to remove their troops again and again and still not do it. Again this is more minor and I can deal with it.
If you've got real good relations with and equal or inferior civ, they do have a tendency to actually go along with it more often then not. But a lot of the expansionist civs just ignore it.

RAH

According to the strategy guide AI cannot occupy your road without your agreement. So if you build roads along the boarder nobody can sneak in peacefully. Haven't tested it myself. Next time, when my starting position is on the tip of the land mass, I'll build a small city and have roads from my capital blocking its outlet, then trade the city to an AI civ. Could be another money cow.

[DaveV]

A few more hours' worth of play reminds me of a quote from Brian Reynolds in an interview right after Civ 2 was released:

My experience with tactical combat systems in Civ-like games has been that it encourages everyone to stack all of their units in one square and then go tromping around the map terrorizing each others' cities.

It seems to me that the attacker will have the advantage in this game - he can concentrate a huge force at a single point, while the defender is spread out trying to protect his entire empire. Not that there's anything wrong with that!

[rah]

Oh, there's lots for non war mongers.
I like war though

If you can stay ahead of the computer in either tech, resources, or luxury items.....you can spend your turns wheeling and dealing with the AI. If you have contact with a civ that no one else has, you can play whore for him. (eventually a big bully will come along and demand that contact instead of squashing you like a bug, but what the hey). It is more fun when all the AI haven't met yet, and you can play middle man. The AI trades with itself very well so the window of opportunity to trade things can be real small.

But if you are dealing from a weak hand, the AI will try to rip you off. But that's kinda fun too.

Rich

[War4ever]

Originally posted by DaveV



It seems to me that the attacker will have the advantage in this game - he can concentrate a huge force at a single point, while the defender is spread out trying to protect his entire empire. Not that there's anything wrong with that!

i have noticed the ai always has a large army of units....whether they are powerfull on their own is irrelevant...en masse they can be a real annoying.

instead of one large army attacking one spot.....i use three moderate armies to attack.....and leave a few in points where i think the ai might launch a counter

i too dislike inferior units winning via civ1 perhaps a patch will fix this..

i have been relying heavily on leaders for my wonders.... as i tend to spit out alot of settlers from my cap which always has great food...

an agressive hunt for barbs will help your quest for elite units....which makes getting leaders from rival wars easier.

my first wonder is pyramids...but i may try the GL as a change of pace.....

[Bird]

Re: Thanks!

Originally posted by Carolus Rex
After talking to Smash via ICQ I got the impression that the game is more fun for those who like the war aspect of civ. Without having to think about (and setting up) trade routes, is there much to do during the turns for peaceful rulers like myself ? Or is "hit enter and wait for the completion of city improvements" what it's about if you want to skip wars?

I fear I'm gonna miss my camels!

Carolus

The gratification of delivering freight and getting x amount of gold is gone, but I think the civ 3 way may ultimately be better, if for no other reason than it's more involved. You do have to "think" about trade routes b/c you have to set up the roads or harbors to implement them plus you have to get the other civ to agree to trade. From what I can tell, you can certainly still be primarily a "peaceful" player (I have been in my only game), but you need to at least be prepared for strategic wars. But that won't hurt you, CR, a little warring is good for the soul now and again.

[Xin Yu]

Barbarian/AI circus

Suddenly thought about something. Haven't tested yet but it may work.

Those stupid AIs were programmed to go to your undefended cities. Here's a way to make fun of them. Build a colony on mountain and park a spearman next to it. Those barbs will move towards your colony. Before it can start attacking, move the spearman to the colony and empty one of your nearby cities. The suckers will move back towards the cities. Then you throw a ball from the city to the colony and say: catch! the barbs will come back to the colony again.

[Steve Clark]

Originally posted by Bird
Started a game at deity and quit after about 45 minutes to go back to monarchy level.

There's been alot of that going on.

I agree with rah about the minor annoyances. I'm wondering though, have any of you used the editor to help mitigate the effects of unbalanced combat or rampant corruption?

[Smash]

well, I've taken my first run thru into the modern ages and there is a gem in this game:Strategic Resources.
The constantly changing situation requires lots of diplomacy and/or military action.
I had a heck of a time securing oil and rubber.You can't build any modern units without it.Rubber was gained thru some very expensive bartering.I finally had to agree to 2 advanced techs,1000 gold and 200 per turn,Ouch.However it is easy to take advantage and sell techs to get it all back.Some self policing is needed here.Also you can rack up a decent amount of gold by just offering your world map.Up to 20 gold and/or 3>4 per turn is possible just for maps.Times 5,6,7 etc civs.
Oil had to be secured thru military action after my supply dried up.There is a "mid east" region in my game where all the oil has appeared.All the civs have a small city or 2 there.A transport full of tanks and infantry cleared my oil shortage
You need aluminum and uranium for other stuff and SS parts.Uranium hasn't appeared,but by some crafty trade embargos I have cornered the world's supply of aluminum ...for now.These trade embargos never seem to end.....can't find a way to end them thru diplomacy...
This part of the game would be great for mp games.Especially the dip games.No way you can play mp with special attributes.Golden Age would be terribly unbalanced for several civs...like the Persians and their immortal unit.Just 1 victory with said unit triggers a golden age......

It's just lacking a little on the trade side.Its been greatly simplified from civ2.Civ is supposed to be complicated.

[War4ever]

Smash...... i have been having problems in a current game where all the ai's gang up on me.... i actually got knocked out of the game Not only was it an alliance against me, it was an alliance to destroy me...

Every city was razed to the ground..... never had a defeat this bad since civ1

This was at deity level..... seems i still need to master emperor a bit more